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Citra / Galaxy / El Dorado APA?

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Omahawk

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Looking for some advice on hop combos for an APA / IPA. There are so many great commercial hoppy beers to choose from, so the past few years I’ve spent my precious brewing time on other styles.

I’m looking for a late hop, citrus/tropical profile. I wanted to deviate from the old school C hops. I’m good with my malt bill. Here’s where I’m at for recipe:

Triumphant Return Pale Ale
OG = 1.054
FG = 1.011
IBUs = 58
Color = 5 SRM
6 gallons at end of boil

All grain: 50% 2 Row, 35% German Pils, 8% Munich, 5% Crystal 10, 2% acid malt. 2 tsp gypsum, 1 tsp CaCl in mash.

Hops are all late:
  • 1 oz Amarillo @15 min
at flameout:
  • 1 oz Galaxy
  • 0.5 oz Citra
  • 0.5 oz El Dorado
Hop steep @ 170 F for 20 minutes:
  • 1 oz Galaxy
  • 0.5 oz Citra
  • 0.5 oz El Dorado

Yeast: WY 1098/WLP007

Based on what my LHBS has, I also considered Nelson Sauvin, Mosaic, Simcoe, and several of the good ‘ol C hops (Columbus, cascade, centennial come to mind). I love N.S, but didn’t think it fit great with the rest. I’ve never been a fan of single-hop Mosaic beers - it might be great in combo with others.

Any thoughts on my late hop combination are welcome. Thanks!
 
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Omahawk

Omahawk

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I’ll also note that with my process, I am not a huge of dry hooping in my beers. I’m also game for adding a couple more ounces of late additions.
 
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Omahawk

Omahawk

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Bump. Hoping someone can give me experience with any combo of Citra, El Dorado, and Galaxy late hops -and even that 15-minute Amarillo addition. Planning to brew this weekend.
 

bierhaus15

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First off, your grain bill looks good. Very similar to what I settled on for non NE style hoppy pale ales... after 8 years or so of tinkering.

If you are looking for a softer hop character with little back-end character, what you have for hopping is fine, although I'd move the flameout additions to the hop steep portion to reduce bitterness and polyphenols from those high AA% hops. Galaxy in particular can lend an unpleasant bitterness when used in boiling/near boiling wort and its fruity character is best expressed via hop stand or dry hopping. The 15 minute Amarillo addition is fine as well, although my preference is for more early boil bitterness to provide balance to the sweet-fruity-piney hop character. Especially as hoppy beer ages, the lack of an early bittering addition can make the beer seem "flabby" as the hop character fades.

Lastly, Galaxy-Nelson is an awesome hop combination and it pairs especially well with Citra as well.
 

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If it were me, I'd double your second whirlpool additions. Just get more aroma in the beer since you don't dry hop.
 

tmendick

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I agree with doubling your whirlpool additions, 5 total ounces doesn't seem like enough especially with the crystal malt. If your trying to not have any partial 1oz bags left, I would throw in an additional 1oz each of Galaxy and Citra at whirlpool.
 

ca_baracus

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I just did my second NEIPA batch using Citra, El Dorado, and Galaxy (3:2:1 ratio). 6oz whirlpool, 6oz dry hop, and 1oz cryo Citra in the keg. It's fantastic. Great hop combo.
 

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I am enjoying an El Dorado, Citra and Galaxy IPA as we speak. I am rather pleased with these nuances and feel you'll make a great choice with this combo. I have been known to throw in a dash of Amarillo for boil bittering and use these hops as late additions.

Another hop to keep on your radar screen to incorporate in another brew is Vic Secret.
 
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Omahawk

Omahawk

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The 15 minute Amarillo addition is fine as well, although my preference is for more early boil bitterness to provide balance to the sweet-fruity-piney hop character. Especially as hoppy beer ages, the lack of an early bittering addition can make the beer seem "flabby" as the hop character fades.
Interesting observation. Several years back when I was making hoppy ales all the time, I always did the traditional 60-minute addition.

I actually was hoping to avoid that overly “soft” flavor - before I started doing water adjustments, I had this issue. Not my favorite effect. I might do a 60- minute addition to get equivalent IBUs.

Thanks!
 
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Omahawk

Omahawk

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If it were me, I'd double your second whirlpool additions. Just get more aroma in the beer since you don't dry hop.
I agree with doubling your whirlpool additions, 5 total ounces doesn't seem like enough especially with the crystal malt.
Tremendous. It doesn’t take much arm twisting to get me to add late hops. :rock: I’m on it.
 

bolus14

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I did an El Dorado, Denali, Motuekaa DIPA a year ago and really wish I had made it again this summer, had a strawberry, pineapple, slight lime thing going for it.
.5oz El Dorado FWH
.5oz whirlpool El Dorado @180 for 15 min
1 oz whirlpool Denali @180 for 15 min
1oz whirlpool Motueka @180 for 15 min

1oz of each dry hop for 4 days

If anything I would look at possibly doubling the whirlpool and dry hop if you like a more hoppy presence.

If you don't want to dry hop just move those additions to the whirlpool, or maybe make them an addition between 5 min and flameout.
 
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Omahawk

Omahawk

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Great feedback and tips, all! Revised recipe below, changes bolded:

Triumphant Return Pale Ale
OG = 1.054
FG = 1.011
IBUs = 99 (assuming it will taste more like 40-50 ibus)
Color = 5 SRM
6 gallons at end of boil

All grain: 50% 2 Row, 35% German Pils, 8% Munich, 5% Crystal 10, 2% acid malt. 2 tsp gypsum, 1 tsp CaCl in mash.

Hops:
  • 1 oz Amarillo @60 min
Hop steep @ 170 F for 20 minutes:
  • 2 oz Galaxy
  • 2 oz Citra
  • 2 oz El Dorado

Yeast: WY 1098
 
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Omahawk

Omahawk

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1 oz whirlpool Denali @180 for 15 min
1oz whirlpool Motueka @180 for 15 min

.
I’ve never used either of these before, and I don’t think my LHBS carries them. Which of those flavors you described did you get from them? I’ve never detected Strawberry from hops. Sounds crazy and great in the right beer.
 
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Omahawk

Omahawk

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Lastly, Galaxy-Nelson is an awesome hop combination and it pairs especially well with Citra as well.
I like Nelson a lot. One of my favorite beers is Zeelander from Toppling Goliath - all N.S. hopped pale ale. I was concerned about it clashing with more tropical hops. Maybe unfounded.
 

bolus14

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Denali is known for pineapple. As for the strawberry it think just happened by luck, maybe, from the combo of the hops. I've only made that beer once so I can guarantee it would work again. It also may rely on some of the alcohol sweetness to bring some of the flavors out, the beer I made was 8.5% if I remember correctly.
 
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Omahawk

Omahawk

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Denali is known for pineapple. As for the strawberry it think just happened by luck, maybe, from the combo of the hops. I've only made that beer once so I can guarantee it would work again. It also may rely on some of the alcohol sweetness to bring some of the flavors out, the beer I made was 8.5% if I remember correctly.
I’ll have to order these from a big online place sometime and make a pale ale with all new-to-me hops.

My LHBS is good about keeping their stuff fresh, and they only stock what they sell. The owner was just telling me last week that they stopped stocking Sorachi Ace because it sat on the shelves too long.
 

Morrey

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Galaxy is pretty assertive, and I usually back the ratios down with hops like Galaxy so it doesn't eclipse more subtle hops. Maybe 2/2/1 with Galaxy being the 1. Amarillo is a great hop, but I normally save it near the end of so it shines. If used full boil, it really doesn't do much more than some other alternate lower cost bittering hop like Magnum.

To me, full boil hops don't do much more than contribute bittering w/o much flavor. I started using CTZ hop extract from Yakima Valley 2 years ago and haven't used anything else since.

Just suggestions....I'm sure your choices will be good ones.
 
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Omahawk

Omahawk

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Galaxy is pretty assertive, and I usually back the ratios down with hops like Galaxy so it doesn't eclipse more subtle hops. Maybe 2/2/1 with Galaxy being the 1.
Thanks for the thought. I love galaxy, but am hoping for a few layers of hop
flavors. I’ll look into this some more and think about it.

Amarillo is a great hop, but I normally save it near the end of so it shines. If used full boil, it really doesn't do much more than some other alternate lower cost bittering hop like Magnum... I started using CTZ hop extract from Yakima Valley 2 years ago and haven't used anything else since.
Yeah, the Amarillo (originally at 15 min) was a nod to my old hop schedule. I agree that I could throw anything in at 60 minutes and it won’t make a significant difference in flavor. I’ll likely “play it by ear” on my bittering addition and see what the shop has tomorrow. Magnum is one I use quite often.

I haven’t used hop extract yet. I’ll add it to my list of new things to try on my next IPA.

Thanks!
 
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Omahawk

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Thanks for the feedback to everyone. I brewed it, kegged it and am serving it after only 2 weeks. Great, juicy, fresh hop flavors with restrained bitterness despite the 89 estimated IBUs.

Here’s where it ended up for a recipe:

Triumphant Return Pale Ale
OG = 1.053
FG = 1.010
IBUs = 89
Color = 5 SRM
6 gallons at end of boil

All grain: 50% 2 Row, 35% German Pils, 8% Munich, 5% Crystal 10, 2% acid malt.

67% distilled water, 33% Omaha tap water. 2 tsp gypsum, 1 tsp CaCl in mash. After a lot of trial and error recently, this was the best water profile for hoppy beers yet.

No sparge. Mash at 150 F for 60 minutes. Raised temp to 160 for 20 minutes.
  • 1 oz Centennial @60 min
  • 1 oz Galaxy, steep @ 170 F for 20 min
  • 2 oz Citra, steep @ 170 F for 20 min
  • 2 oz El Dorado, steep @ 170 F for 20 min
  • 1 oz Amarillo, steep @ 170 F for 20 min
Yeast: WY 1098 at 65 degrees.
 
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Morrey

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Glad your effort to combine the hops was a success. Every one of your choices is a home run in the world of hops.

I just brewed and brought online a version of Three Floyd's Gumball Head which is basically an Amarillo hopped beer with a touch of CTZ for bittering. Amarillo is darn fine in just about anything you choose to use it in.

Congrats for your winner!!
 
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Omahawk

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I just brewed and brought online a version of Three Floyd's Gumball Head which is basically an Amarillo hopped beer with a touch of CTZ for bittering. Amarillo is darn fine in just about anything you choose to use it in.
Sounds tasty. I just got some Zeus whole hops from a local grower. I might try something like that for my next batch. I’ve always loved Amarillo hops, just never done it with these three I used in this beer.

What’s the malt bill like on Gumball Head? We don’t get 3 Floyd’s distributed here in Nebraska. Although I have a couple of Zombie Dusts in the fridge from a Chicago friend. VERY good.
 
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Morrey

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@Omahawk: This is a post I made back a couple of years ago. This beer is basically a cross between a mellow wheat beer and a pale ale, but the hops are too subtle to call it an IPA. I remain excited about this beer and it has a semi-dedicated tap on the tower....unless it kicks by surprise. I have started using CTZ extract at FWH so that replaces the Amarillo at 60 min. I recently made a batch w/o the Aromatic (was out) and made it with 60/40 2 row/wheat...it was fine:

I never had a true Three Floyd's Gumball Head, but based on the reviews of this Hop forward wheat beer, I took a gamble. I do like Boulevard's Hoppy Wheat Beer, so I felt it safe to take a leap of faith.

5.5G into fermenter: Using 4 ounces of Amarillo hops total, .5 oz 60 min boil for bittering, 1 oz 15min, .5 oz 5 min, 1 oz flameout 20 min WP steep, 1 oz dry hop in keg. This beer really shows off the single hop Amarillo.

2 Row/Wheat/Aromatic 50/40/10. Mashed 148F, yeast was US-05, OG 1.053. Two weeks in primary @ 65F, 1.009 FG racked to keg, added 1 oz dry hops for 4 days at room temp in sealed keg.

This is without doubt the one beer that I am starting another batch as I am just now bringing online after set and forget carbing and conditioning. There is an interesting flavor that the wheat brings out in the Amarillo, and for the lack of better description, it is almost like a toasty or faintly nutty nuance. This beer is so balanced and easy going that I am putting it on a ration system. I was so proud of this one I took a bottle from my tap over to a buddy who owns a local brewery. He immediately said he wants to do a small batch for the taproom. Made me proud!
 
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Omahawk

Omahawk

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@Omahawk: ....I remain excited about this beer and it has a semi-dedicated tap on the tower....unless it kicks by surprise.
Lol. This is awesome. I’ll have to try it some time. The recipe sounds outstanding.

I just saw you’re from the SC coast. Get out and stay safe, man. Sending safe and dry vibes your way.
 
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