CIP pipe and hose cleaning

[Nummisoft]

I am making a fully automated mash and boil kettle. There will be a lot of valves and hoses and I would like to clean them in place. My plan is to use connections without threads, like sanitary connectors or just putting silicone hose over a pipe like in the picture. As valves I'm thinking DIY version of pinch valves like this https://www.pinch-valve.com/fileadmin/_processed_/csm_AKO_Mechanisches_Quetschventil_6d35a7e3a9.jpg

Is it possible to get everything cleaned without disassembling anything? I have stronger secondary pump to be used only for cleaning cycle. I read from somewhere, that flow rate during cleaning should be 3-4 times higher compared to normal operation. I think my pump can do that.

 

[JadeAug]

For it to be a true Clean-In-Place system you cannot have any drastic changes in diameter of the piping system. Placing tubing over pipe will not work. I would recommend using a Tri-clover X Hose barb fittings. The best option would be to use a silicone valve element as shown in your image.

http://www.parker.com/portal/site/P...tcatid=8822174&vgnextcat=VALVE+ELEMENTS&Wtky=

 

[Nummisoft]

If I make chamfer in the head of the pipe and use same ID pipe and hose, then would it be as good as hose barb fitting? In the picture there is 1 mm difference between IDs.

 

[Jayjay1976]

If I make chamfer in the head of the pipe and use same ID pipe and hose, then would it be as good as hose barb fitting? In the picture there is 1 mm difference between IDs.

Are you worried about infecting fresh, chilled wort by running through a dirty valve? After each batch I recirculate boiling pbw for 20~30 minutes and work each valve open and closed 6 times to give any junk a chance to dislodge. This reduces gunk buildup which is good, but recirculating the wort during the boil eliminates any worries about infection anyway. I run the pump at full speed and let the hot caustic solution do the work. I have disassembled my CFC to inspect the internal components and they are always as clean as a whistle.

 

[mongoose33]

Are you worried about infecting fresh, chilled wort by running through a dirty valve? After each batch I recirculate boiling pbw for 20~30 minutes and work each valve open and closed 6 times to give any junk a chance to dislodge. This reduces gunk buildup which is good, but recirculating the wort during the boil eliminates any worries about infection anyway. I run the pump at full speed and let the hot caustic solution do the work. I have disassembled my CFC to inspect the internal components and they are always as clean as a whistle.

Just bought a conical so I'm in the mode of figuring out the CIP stuff. I know a conical isn't a kettle, but I'm planning on doing CIP. I like the idea of circulating boiling cleaning fluid as a sanitizing/cleaning agent. What do you do to rinse after that? Water followed by star-san or something else?

I have Camlocks for my pump (Riptide) and for the kettle and mash tun, and the TC to Camlock connectors on the conical.

 

[mongoose33]

I am making a fully automated mash and boil kettle. There will be a lot of valves and hoses and I would like to clean them in place. My plan is to use connections without threads, like sanitary connectors or just putting silicone hose over a pipe like in the picture. As valves I'm thinking DIY version of pinch valves like this https://www.pinch-valve.com/fileadmin/_processed_/csm_AKO_Mechanisches_Quetschventil_6d35a7e3a9.jpg

Is it possible to get everything cleaned without disassembling anything? I have stronger secondary pump to be used only for cleaning cycle. I read from somewhere, that flow rate during cleaning should be 3-4 times higher compared to normal operation. I think my pump can do that.

I have 1/2" ID silicone tubing in my system using Camlocks, and I use hemostats to pinch off the tubing. I'm not sure what you're needing to do exactly, but those hemostats work very well. Here's what I'm talking about:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00G3TC53M/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

You get two of them. They're the right kind because the jaws are not serrated which would chew up the silicone. Might be worth trying depending on how you're planning this.

 

[Jayjay1976]

Just bought a conical so I'm in the mode of figuring out the CIP stuff. I know a conical isn't a kettle, but I'm planning on doing CIP. I like the idea of circulating boiling cleaning fluid as a sanitizing/cleaning agent. What do you do to rinse after that? Water followed by star-san or something else?

I have Camlocks for my pump (Riptide) and for the kettle and mash tun, and the TC to Camlock connectors on the conical.

I rinse by recirculating cold tap water at twice the volume of hot wash solution for ten minutes or so and repeat the valve cycling to ensure all caustic residue is removed. I have never run starsan afterwards because I read some time ago that it can attack silicone hoses and gaskets. Should I be doing that?

 

[mongoose33]

I rinse by recirculating cold tap water at twice the volume of hot wash solution for ten minutes or so and repeat the valve cycling to ensure all caustic residue is removed. I have never run starsan afterwards because I read some time ago that it can attack silicone hoses and gaskets. Should I be doing that?

Star-San *can* attack silicone, but I think it's only after a long period of time. I used to keep short pieces of silicone tubing in my Star-San bucket, and they wouldn't take much hurt...until eventually a white film formed on them. I now only dunk them or let them soak for a couple minutes, which is too much a move in the other direction.

Should you use star-san? Not necessarily. Something I've done with my system is run boiling water through it to sanitize it (this is when I'm preboiling water). This is when I'm whirlpooling prior to dough-in.

But in your case...anything on the hot side is sterilized during the boil, so as long as what you're getting tastes good and no infections, I can't see any reason why.

In the case of my conical, that's cold side, so I'm a little more concerned about cleaning and sanitation there. I'll likely CIP with very hot PBW, then draw hot water from the sink through the pump and rinse with that, then I'll probably sanitize w/ a nonfoaming sanitizer. In the end, though, I'll have to pull the valves and such off and make sure the openings are clean.

 

[Jayjay1976]

In the case of my conical, that's cold side, so I'm a little more concerned about cleaning and sanitation there. I'll likely CIP with very hot PBW, then draw hot water from the sink through the pump and rinse with that, then I'll probably sanitize w/ a nonfoaming sanitizer. In the end, though, I'll have to pull the valves and such off and make sure the openings are clean.

That's a good point, and cold-side CIP is well outside my experience. Frequent visual inspection seems like a necessity, interested to see what you end up doing.

I think I'll look into adding a neutralizing step using starsan, I can imagine ending my cleaning routine on an acidic note would be beneficial for maintaining stainless components.

 

[Nummisoft]

Are you worried about infecting fresh, chilled wort by running through a dirty valve? After each batch I recirculate boiling pbw for 20~30 minutes and work each valve open and closed 6 times to give any junk a chance to dislodge. This reduces gunk buildup which is good, but recirculating the wort during the boil eliminates any worries about infection anyway. I run the pump at full speed and let the hot caustic solution do the work. I have disassembled my CFC to inspect the internal components and they are always as clean as a whistle.

Maybe I could circulate hot worth through all valves, I have to think about that. In general I want a system which that can be cleaned without taking anything apart. Pinch valves looks to be easier to keep clean. Another ideas why I'm planning on making pinch valves is size and throttling. Motor valves with hose barbs are quite long compared to how short a pinch valve could be. I try to fit a lot in a reasonable size. I made first prototype of the valve but it wasn't stiff enough and the motor was to weak.