Cider Yeast Selection

[RPh_Guy]

Woohoo! Cider season!

Currently fermenting at 55°F:
1. Simply Apple (pasteurized, unfiltered) juice with additional whole organic apples, pectinase, nutrients, and Cote des Blancs.
2. Fresh unpasteurized local juice with wild fermentation.
3. Fresh unpasteurized local juice with nutrients and Cote des Blancs.
4. Fresh unpasteurized local juice with nutrients and Premier Cuvee.

Lots more to come!

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I similarly have been trialling the Mangrove Jacks Belgian Tripel and French Saison yeast for the appropriate beers. And even used the Belgian Tripel yeast with a feijoa cider. I highly suspect they are picking the eyes out of the better known yeasts in the market and are rebranding. Only a suspicion - as I have on two occasions asked a couple of technical questions and the replies not only take for ever but are very scant on knowledge. But yes - I agree - their product is pretty pretty good, fresh and reliable.

Oh, there's no suspicion about whether they're white labelling - for instance, that French makes a "beautiful" saison, n'est-ce pas?

Quality seems good in Europe and Antipodes, it seems that it can be a bit patchy in North America, but that could just be the odd batch that retailers have let get stale.

 

[Corey Fish]

Anyone try Enoferm M2 by Lallemand? (Doesn't seem to be widely available)

Dude in this article digs it:
https://byo.com/article/yeast-selection-for-cider/

I'm planning 5-10 gallons with M2 this year. Ordered online from the Beverage People in CA as I couldn't find it anywhere else. Happy to report back in a couple months

 

[z-bob]

Another yeast to add to the list is Omega's "Voss Kveik". It ferments extremely fast, but doesn't go completely dry. Very mild and fruity, and almost seems like it reduced the malic acid a little. Took a long time for the bottles to carbonate, but maybe I left it in the fermenter too long and there wasn't much yeast left in suspension to eat the priming sugar; it drops out *very* clear. Eventually the bottles did carbonate just fine, I'm drinking one now.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Another yeast to add to the list is Omega's "Voss Kveik". It ferments extremely fast, but doesn't go completely dry. Very mild and fruity, and almost seems like it reduced the malic acid a little. Took a long time for the bottles to carbonate, but maybe I left it in the fermenter too long and there wasn't much yeast left in suspension to eat the priming sugar; it drops out *very* clear. Eventually the bottles did carbonate just fine, I'm drinking one now.

Nice! This is on my list to try this year.
What temperature? Pitch rate? Nutrients? Aeration? Thanks!

 

[z-bob]

Nice! This is on my list to try this year.
What temperature? Pitch rate? Nutrients? Aeration? Thanks!

I fermented at room temperature, but warmer would probably be better (up to about 95°F.) I always add about 1/2 tsp of yeast nutrient per gallon of cider.

After racking a beer fermented with VK, then pouring off all the sediment, I rinsed out the carboy with a half gallon of apple juice and poured it in a gallon jug with the nutrient. I don't remember if I added any sugar, but if I did it wasn't much, maybe an ounce or two. I assume it was aerated pretty well in the process. There was visibly fermentation in an hour or two. Once I was pretty sure it wouldn't erupt like a volcano, I added the other half gallon of juice.

I think it was finished in 2 days. I waited 2 or 3 weeks to bottle it, and that was too long but the only thing it hurt was the time to carbonate.

 

[z-bob]

I finally started a batch using T-58. I poured a half gallon of apple juice in a gallon glass jug and added half a cup or so of unwashed yeast slurry from the fridge. Shook it up to aerate and slapped an air lock on top. After the fermentation settles down and it just starts to clear, I will decant the cloudy cider off the sediment (to get rid of the old beer trub) into a 3 or 4 gallon carboy, and top it up with more apple juice, yeast nutrient, and half a pound of sugar.

 

[frankhillersr]

Did two batches side by side with local cold Pasteurized cider, with S04 and Safcider. S04 more body and cloudier than the Safcider. Used gelatin and cold crashed. Both have a slight Apple sweetness. The original gravity was 1.050, the S04 fermented to 1.004, Safcider to 1.000.

 

[ten80]

Did two batches side by side with local cold Pasteurized cider, with S04 and Safcider. S04 more body and cloudier than the Safcider. Used gelatin and cold crashed. Both have a slight Apple sweetness. The original gravity was 1.050, the S04 fermented to 1.004, Safcider to 1.000.

That's consistent with what I've seen in my S04 cider batches. I haven't tried Safcider yet.

 

[z-bob]

I finally started a batch using T-58. I poured a half gallon of apple juice in a gallon glass jug and added half a cup or so of unwashed yeast slurry from the fridge. Shook it up to aerate and slapped an air lock on top. After the fermentation settles down and it just starts to clear, I will decant the cloudy cider off the sediment (to get rid of the old beer trub) into a 3 or 4 gallon carboy, and top it up with more apple juice, yeast nutrient, and half a pound of sugar.

This batch is ready to bottle; probably was ready a week ago but I don't like to rush it. The original 1/2 gallon smelled a little farty, I think because the only nutrients were the dead yeast and beer proteins in the slurry. The sulfur went away almost immediately when I added the DAP. Fermentation was vigorous when I stepped it up, the cider looked like a mixture of skim milk and orange juice for a while But now it's nice and clear. I will bottle it this weekend (maybe tonight to get it out of the way because I want to brew tomorrow) No idea what it tastes like yet. Stay tuned...

 

[bmd2k1]

Anyone cranked out a cider using Kveik yeast??

 

[z-bob]

Anyone cranked out a cider using Kveik yeast??

I did a 1-gallon cider using Voss. It was finished in just a few days. Tasted like the yeast neutralized some of the malic acid; the cider was not as tart as usual. Other than that it tasted good, maybe just needed higher carbonation.

 

[bmd2k1]

I did a 1-gallon cider using Voss. It was finished in just a few days. Tasted like the yeast neutralized some of the malic acid; the cider was not as tart as usual. Other than that it tasted good, maybe just needed higher carbonation.

How were the lees? Did ya cold crash & how did it respond? Is Omega only one doing Kveik ? Thx. (still contemplating my summer cider yeast options)

 

[z-bob]

How were the lees? Did ya cold crash & how did it respond? Is Omega only one doing Kveik? Thx. (still contemplating my summer cider yeast options)

I am using Omega kveik yeast, but I think there's another company selling it too now. I did not cold-crash it, it dropped perfectly clear on its own. It was so clear I was afraid it might not carbonate.

But what I really came here to post about was the T-58. I made a batch of cider with it because it's supposed to suck. I just bottled it and it tastes (and smells) great. I'm drinking a glass of the leftovers right now. It does need yeast nutrient, tho'. I didn't add nutrients to the first half-gallon and it smelled pretty bad; I added nutrient along with the sugar and the rest of the apple juice and the stink went away almost immediately.

 

[ten80]

I added nutrient along with the sugar and the rest of the apple juice and the stink went away almost immediately.

I wonder if a lack of nutrients is why mine stank for a long time. I even fermented it slow and cold to reduce yeast stress.

 

[Blacksmith1]

I'd say that was the problem. My first one stank. Smelled like a$$ according to my step son. No nutes. Second one with nutes, smells great.

 

[MarkKF]

I ALWAYS use yeast nutrient and a yeast starter. I've NEVER had bad odors either during or after fermentation.

 

[ten80]

I ALWAYS use yeast nutrient and a yeast starter. I've NEVER had bad odors either during or after fermentation.

There's your approach with nutrients, then there's the complete opposite, which is to ferment slow and cold without adding nutrients to help preserve apple flavor and develop nuances from a long fermentation and aging on lees. The "slow" approach has little risk of sulfur off-flavors based on my experiments with D47, 71B, EC1118, QA23, and R4600. "Slow" ferments obviously work great for French and English cider makers as well!

I've had mixed results with ale yeasts and "slow" ferments without nutrients with some sulfurous ciders produced that have very little apple flavor. Overall, I prefer to use wine yeasts for cider.

 

[MarkKF]

I try to ferment in the winter with my basement in the 50’s. Not at a snail’s pace but often slower. The one I have going now is pretty slow even with a starter and nutrients.

I think the key is to slow it down without stalling or stressing the yeast. But I am far from an expert.

 

[Blacksmith1]

Sadly, we are expecting a low of 69, and a high of 84 today. So nutes and a better choice of yeast seem to be the only options for some of us.

 

[bmd2k1]

Sadly, we are expecting a low of 69, and a high of 84 today. So nutes and a better choice of yeast seem to be the only options for some of us.

Narrowing down my Michigan summer yeasts to Belle Saison, Belle Abbaye & Kveik at this point.....based on research. Haven't tried any of em yet -- let us know if ya try any of these warmer temp friendly bad boys [emoji111]

 

[z-bob]

I've had the best luck using wine yeasts (not an aggressive champagne strain) and nutrients. I use beer yeast when I have some fresh slurry that I want to try. Something I have not done yet is EC-1118 or Premier Cuvee without nutrients.

 

[Maylar]

Sadly, we are expecting a low of 69, and a high of 84 today. So nutes and a better choice of yeast seem to be the only options for some of us.

There's always a way...

http://shop.greatfermentations.com/...MI6-Tg9cvI4AIVg4CfCh3EKwjNEAQYASABEgJZJfD_BwE

 

[Justwingnit]

I use wlp775 in a temp. controlled to 70 f and love it.

 

[J Trott]

I just looked up the Cotes de Blanc, the description even sounds impressive! Not sure how this went under my radar for so long. I'm going to be starting 4 or 5 single gallon batches soon - all with different yeast. Starting all at the same time, under the same temps and see how they work out. I may have to get this one to add to the mix. So far I have Nottingham, S-04, & S-33 on hand. Thinking about getting Safcider and one other but still not sure.

How did the batches turn out? Notty any good? What temperature was the fermentation? Thanks in advance for any insight!

 

[MaxStout]

Bump.

I'm planning to make some 1-gal batches using various store-bought juices. I've done a bunch of EdWort's Apfelwein with Montrachet and found it to be much like a white wine, with little apple flavor, and bone dry. Now I want to make cider (will be my first attempt), and have it not end up too dry. Would like a yeast that naturally finishes with a little sweetness and retains good apple flavor. @RPh_Guy, how does Premier Cuvee compare with S-04 or Notty in that regard?

 

[RPh_Guy]

Bump.

I'm planning to make some 1-gal batches using various store-bought juices. I've done a bunch of EdWort's Apfelwein with Montrachet and found it to be much like a white wine, with little apple flavor, and bone dry. Now I want to make cider (will be my first attempt), and have it not end up too dry. Would like a yeast that naturally finishes with a little sweetness and retains good apple flavor. @RPh_Guy, how does Premier Cuvee compare with S-04 or Notty in that regard?

I'll try to remember to update this thread as cider season in the northern hemisphere approaches. The character limit on posts is a little restrictive.

I haven't used S04 or Notty, sorry. So many yeasts, so little time. I love Premier Cuvee though. I think it leaves lots of apple flavor and a perception of sweetness.

My favorite cider of 2018 was unpasteurized unsulfited juice with a tiny bit of WLP644, a tiny bit of WY5526, and a tiny amount of Lacto blend, fermented at 68-70°F and then added dregs from a mixed Brett sour (3 Floyd's Deesko), with some added FT Blanc Soft tannin and aged on some medium toast French oak cubes, lightly carbonated.

 

[MaxStout]

I'll try to remember to update this thread as cider season in the northern hemisphere approaches. The character limit on posts is a little restrictive.

I haven't used S04 or Notty, sorry. So many yeasts, so little time. I love Premier Cuvee though. I think it leaves lots of apple flavor and a perception of sweetness.

Cool. I might give it a go with Cuvee.

 

[412CiderGuy]

How did the batches turn out? Notty any good? What temperature was the fermentation? Thanks in advance for any insight!

If you use Notty double the nutrient. For some reason that’s the only yeast that stresses out and makes my cider smell like sulphur.

 

[CallyBrewster]

Notty used to be my go-to yeast. I got some SUPER SNOTTY pushback from one of my LHBS who won't even carry it because, reasons. But it's generally good, I like it at around 57–58°F, and would use it again, especially for cider I intend to ignore for some number of months.

Problems I had with Nottingham were banana-like esters when fermented too warm, and rhino farts when I was using a ratio of 1gal apple juice:0.8lb of table sugar. Notty has also has taken multiple rackings and up to a year to fully clear.

Just finished a batch with the WLP775 English Cider yeast + Costco AJ. I had super great results. Incredibly clear just coming off the lees. I stopped it a little bit sweet (1.010) because I was taking it camping and wanted to please a mixed crowd. Even without any aging whatsoever, it was completely delightful.

I re-used the cake to ferment something an experiment in madness (Trader Joe's Winter Wassail + regular AJ). Right now it's at .098, still actively fermenting, and is going to have to be used for blending. BUT! It has super nice mouthfeel, and even at this gravity, some fruity residual.