Cider Yeast Selection

[smarch0]

It should be noted that 71B has some Malic acid converting properties. Not as much as malolactic bacteria or anything, but some. This will produce a dry, but less acidic or slightly less tart cider.

 

[Maylar]

It should be noted that 71B has some Malic acid converting properties. Not as much as malolactic bacteria or anything, but some. This will produce a dry, but less acidic or slightly less tart cider.

It's good for reducing the acid level in "high acid" musts. But cider needs a bit of malic acid bite, along with tannins, for balance. The one time I used it in cider I was left with a flabby bland product that needed to have some acid put back in at bottling time. Kinda counter productive. I won't use it again unless my juice has a TA of 0.7 gm/ltr or more.

MLF however is different - that's a conversion to lactic acid. 71B and Scott Labs SVG just lower the acid level (convert it to alcohol and CO2).

 

[smarch0]

It's good for reducing the acid level in "high acid" musts. But cider needs a bit of malic acid bite, along with tannins, for balance. The one time I used it in cider I was left with a flabby bland product that needed to have some acid put back in at bottling time. Kinda counter productive. I won't use it again unless my juice has a TA of 0.7 gm/ltr or more.

MLF however is different - that's a conversion to lactic acid. 71B and Scott Labs SVG just lower the acid level (convert it to alcohol and CO2).

Yes, I was mostly mentioning it for those making ciders with store bought juice, that are all very high in acids.

 

[Denny]

I've tried a bunch of different yeast for cider over the last 20 years. Ale yeasts, wine yeasts, cider yeasts...my favorite after all of that is WY1450. Makes a very dry cider but leaves a bit of apple flavor behind.

 

[johnnyseko]

I've tried a bunch of different yeast for cider over the last 20 years. Ale yeasts, wine yeasts, cider yeasts...my favorite after all of that is WY1450. Makes a very dry cider but leaves a bit of apple flavor behind.

Guess it's called Denny's favorite for a reason!

The yeast list continues to grow.... Some great suggestions here.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Here you go since I can't edit the older posts now...
Yeasts mentioned on this thread as of Dec 26 2017

WLP775 - English Cider Yeast
"My favorite so far is WLP775.... left it with more body and apple flavor. It does have a stronger sulfur smell when it's fermenting, but it's not overwhelming." - ericbw
"excellent dry cider, drops out for a brilliantly clear beverage." - DaleP
"not a fan" - MarkKF
"This WLP775 is finishing low but the apple goodness is remaining. I am onboard with this strain for sure." - Morrey

Wyeast 4766 - Cider
"excellent dry cider, drops out for a brilliantly clear beverage." - DaleP

Red Star Premier Cuvee
Leaves abundant apple flavor fermented at 68F. Finishes dry to semi-dry and very clean and neutral. Very well-behaved -- starter and/or blowoff unnecessary - RPh_Guy

Red Star Cotes de Blanc
"My favorite so far is Côte des Blancs." - z-bob
"Not only did it finish below 1.000, the apple goodness was basically gone." - Morrey
"strips out the apple character and doesn't impart any fruit character itself" - Albionwood
"I've tried nearly a dozen yeasts. Cote des Blancs is the best there is. It ferments slowly and preserves the apple character and some residual sweetness around 0.998, as opposed to many other yeasts that ferment fast and bone-dry down to 0.992." - dmtaylor

Vintner's Harvest - AW4
"The AW4 tasted and smelled like banana juice at bottling time, but that went away after a few weeks in the bottle; left a nice spicy apple flavor with just a little residual banana esters." - z-bob

Lalvin DV10

Lalvin R-HST (for ice cider)

Lalvin D47
"preserves the natural apple fruit character. fermented cold (<60F)" - Albionwood
"retains apple flavor, ferments well cold (48-52F) and produces a very high level of glycerol (for mouthfeel) compared to other wine yeasts. A good yeast for extended aging on lees, imparts complexity without off-flavors when aged cold." - ten80

WLP Scottish Cider Yeast Blend
"The best yeast I have used to date is White Labs Scottish Cider yeast." - Drewed

Danstar Nottingham
"good" - MarkKF

EC-1118
"too dry" - MarkKF
"too dry (sub 0.999 FG) and strips some apple flavor" - ten80

S-04
"good" - MarkKF
"good for quick-finishing ciders that retain a clean, crisp, if perhaps tart flavor. Doesn't impart any beneficial fruity esters like D47. Ferments juice nicely at 50-55F once it gets started. May take 2-3 days to start in juice with a pH below 3.5." - ten80

71B
"pretty good" - MarkKF
"Stronger fermentor than D47, will ferment as cold as 46 F. Good for cysers and ciders with added sugars. Retains apple flavor maybe as well as D47. Attenuates to 1.000 or slightly below with most ciders." - ten80
"It should be noted that 71B has some Malic acid converting properties. Not as much as malolactic bacteria or anything, but some. This will produce a dry, but less acidic or slightly less tart cider." - smarch0
"It's good for reducing the acid level in "high acid" musts. But cider needs a bit of malic acid bite, along with tannins, for balance. The one time I used it in cider I was left with a flabby bland product that needed to have some acid put back in at bottling time. Kinda counter productive." - Maylar

Safcider
"very good results" - MarkKF

Brewer&#8217;s Best Cider House select
"very good results" - MarkKF

S-33 Saflager
"my favorite has been S-33 Saflager yeast m very apple forward off dry cider" - wuyi_wulf
"tastes good, but the bottles aren't carbing. Maybe I let it clear *too* much." - z-bob

WLP720 Sweet Mead
"a great semi-sweet cider yeast. very clean cider with tons of apple character and enough residual sweetness (0.998 FG) to where my wife (who prefers sweet-sweet cider) loves it -- she drinks it more than I do, actually . Not nearly as active as [WLP002], but with some patience it will produce a wonderful (and clear!) cider." - jacobelong

US-05
"It is quite good." - dmtaylor

WY1450
"I've tried a bunch of different yeast for cider over the last 20 years. Ale yeasts, wine yeasts, cider yeasts...my favorite after all of that is WY1450. Makes a very dry cider but leaves a bit of apple flavor behind." - Denny

WLP028
"I thought it was good, but not as good as Cote des Blancs." - dmtaylor

WLP002 (English Ale)
"very dry and left a strong yeast-bread flavor which I found quite unpleasant. I prefer my cider on the off-dry / semi-sweet side, though." - jacobelong

Red Star Montrachet
"strips out the apple character and doesn't impart any fruit character itself" - Albionwood

Red Star Premier Blanc (Champagne Yeast)
"I've only done a few batches with premier blanc but have to give the thumbs down so far." - johnnyseko

Safale T-58
"Made a horribly sulfurous cider which a year later I am still trying to save. I fermented it around 65f which may have been too warm." - ten80

 

[paneubert]

I would love to hear from more people who have used 002 English Ale. I am surprised that the one person who tried it got such a dry and yeasty result since it was the "winner" of a pretty comprehensive blind test. Admittedly this test was only with White Labs yeast, but still.

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/attachments/0001/5982/Cider_Yeast_Comparison__final_.pdf

I am going to give it a shot in the new year and will report back.

 

[RPh_Guy]

I would love to hear from more people who have used 002 English Ale. I am surprised that the one person who tried it got such a dry and yeasty result since it was the "winner" of a pretty comprehensive blind test. Admittedly this test was only with White Labs yeast, but still.

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/attachments/0001/5982/Cider_Yeast_Comparison__final_.pdf

I am going to give it a shot in the new year and will report back.

Thanks for sharing that link.
From the article: "All of the strains except WLP002 English Ale were able to fully attenuate the apple juice."
This seems really suspicious. Why couldn't an ale yeast fully attenuate apple juice?

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

I have made cider only once, but had a good experience with Danster/Lallemand Nottingham. The process was ridiculously easy, but it took 8 weeks for the cider to finish. Compare this to 3 weeks for a beer and well, if I was to do it again, I would use yeast nutrient, but will likely not try again since beer is just better by my standards. Interesting note on this though, my wife, who likes beer, liked the cider better than three of my other beers when I served it to her in a flight.

 

[paneubert]

Thanks for sharing that link.
From the article: "All of the strains except WLP002 English Ale were able to fully attenuate the apple juice."
This seems really suspicious. Why couldn't an ale yeast fully attenuate apple juice?

Good question. My only theory is that since they limited themselves to only pitch one vial with no starter, it was underpitched. But they did provide some nutrient, so underpitching should have just extended the ferment time, not lowered the attenuation.

 

[Maylar]

Thanks for sharing that link.
From the article: "All of the strains except WLP002 English Ale were able to fully attenuate the apple juice."
This seems really suspicious. Why couldn't an ale yeast fully attenuate apple juice?

There are exceptions. Safale S-04 will typically stop at 1.004 or so IF you keep temperature in the 60°F range, but at 68° it'll go below 1.000. White Labs has a strain in their vault that they claim attenuates only to 80% with apple juice:

This is an exciting blend of two ale strains and one wine strain. Unlike a lot of ale strains that typically dry out most ciders, this unique blend of Saccharomyces strains will leave some residual sweetness for a smooth mouthfeel. This strain is perfect for those looking for a still cider with some lingering apple characteristic or a dryer sparkling cider.

In 12 Plato apple juice: 80% attenuation

WLP773 - Here's the link: https://www.whitelabs.com/yeast-vault

 

[bmd2k1]

Some more info on different yeast strains - with info on brewery of origin:

http://www.mrmalty.com/yeast.htm

 

[z-bob]

An update on the S-33 cider. I recently finished drinking that first 1-gallon batch. None of the 12 ounce bottles carbonated (still tasted okay but not great. Kinda "flabby") The 1-liter plastic bottle did carbonate, and it was good. I bottled them all straight out of the fermenter, and the only thing I can think of is maybe there was no yeast still in suspension, but I picked up a little of the sediment with the 1L.

I have a 4 gallon batch that will be ready to bottle soon. I'm not going to wait for it to drop totally clear this time; I will put up with a little sediment in the bottles.

I still think I like wine yeast cider better than beer yeast.

 

[dmtaylor]

I still think I like wine yeast cider better than beer yeast.

Me too.

 

[bmd2k1]

Next 5gal batch will be with WLP775.....

Though I'm gonna order a couple of the 773....sounds very interesting & limited nature is kinda cool.

 

[johnnyseko]

Next 5gal batch will be with WLP775.....

Though I'm gonna order a couple of the 773....sounds very interesting & limited nature is kinda cool.

Nice! Looking forward to that 773 as well. If you build a stir plate you can just keep growing the stuff and store in the fridge. I have a shelf on the door of my fridge dedicated to yeast.

 

[bmd2k1]

Nice! Looking forward to that 773 as well. If you build a stir plate you can just keep growing the stuff and store in the fridge. I have a shelf on the door of my fridge dedicated to yeast.

Any tips for yeast harvesting/propagating?

 

[ROLLTIDE]

I personally would like any updates on the use of Brewer's Best Premium Cider Yeast. Just about everything I have read is very positive but minimal and in most cases, quite dated. I've just ordered 3 packs off of Amazon and as soon as this current apfelwien comes out of primary, I'm giving it a shot.

Edit: I've also ordered a pack of Hungarian med roast oak cubes that I plan on soaking in vanilla and vodka and adding to a batch at some point.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Reusing 773 is going to be difficult as it's a blend - two ale strains and a wine strain. The proportions will almost certainly drift as you reuse them.

 

[MarkKF]

I’ve used Brewers Best Cider House Select yeast. It finishes at 1.000. Clears nicely. I ferment at 55-65 deg. F. I have no idea who packages this yeast or what it’s closest to. But it seems to taste sweeter than Ale yeast that finishes at 1.004

 

[ROLLTIDE]

Okay, so is this a "cider for dummies" yeast then ? Pitch into store bought generic apple juice and in a week have perfect still cider ? I really don't see that as the case or it would be making headlines all over the forum. I want to finish around 6-8% abv and still have some decent apple flavor then of course I'll want to carb some. Any more more detailed info from anyone that has used it would be GREATLY appreciated.

 

[z-bob]

Okay, so is this a "cider for dummies" yeast then ? Pitch into store bought generic apple juice and in a week have perfect still cider ? I really don't see that as the case or it would be making headlines all over the forum. I want to finish around 6-8% abv and still have some decent apple flavor then of course I'll want to carb some. Any more more detailed info from anyone that has used it would be GREATLY appreciated.

It's not much harder than that, but it takes a lot longer than a week. I don't think any yeast will give you clear 7% cider in less than a month, then it has to carb for a couple of weeks. Then the flavor improves for at least a couple of weeks after that.

 

[johnnyseko]

Reusing 773 is going to be difficult as it's a blend - two ale strains and a wine strain. The proportions will almost certainly drift as you reuse them.

Good point! I hadn't thought of that.

I've just been growing the 775 with a little juice for 24-48 hrs on the stir plate. Nothing scientific. When the yeast appears to have doubled, I pitch half and store the other half for future use.

 

[bmd2k1]

Trying S-04 for my first "cheaters" Ice Cider....it was a robust fermenter taking my 1gal batch from 1.12 to 1.036 in a week. Racked it and letting it sit in high 50s for awhile...very very little activity.

I took the other half of the S-04 (11.5g) packet and pinched it in 1gal of Sam's AJ...it seems to be fermenting nicely so far...will take an SG at the 1week point.

 

[gratus fermentatio]

Nottingham is my goto yeast for cider.
Regards, GF.

 

[RPh_Guy]

I don't think any yeast will give you clear 7% cider in less than a month, then it has to carb for a couple of weeks.

The Premier Cuvee I've been using does exactly this, depending on the juice. For example Costco juice finishes clear in like 3 weeks and carbs fast (however I don't really care for the Costco Kirkland juice myself). Probably pectinase would help other juices clear this fast as well.

 

[bmd2k1]

Trying S-04 for my first "cheaters" Ice Cider....it was a robust fermenter taking my 1gal batch from 1.12 to 1.036 in a week. Racked it and letting it sit in high 50s for awhile...very very little activity.

I took the other half of the S-04 (11.5g) packet and pinched it in 1gal of Sam's AJ...it seems to be fermenting nicely so far...will take an SG at the 1week point.

Regular batch finished primary fermentation today after 8days....SG 1.008 -- pretty darn clear & lees had compacted down. Sample was nicely semi-sweet & appley. Racked into secondary with couple cinnamon sticks.

So far....digging S04.

 

[bmd2k1]

Next 5gal batch will be with WLP775.....

Though I'm gonna order a couple of the 773....sounds very interesting & limited nature is kinda cool.

Just finished 6gal batch using WLP775....went from 1.05 to 1.001 in 2weeks...racked into 1gal secondaries for conditioning. Very clear...bit drier than I like so back sweetening with different amounts of FAJC & 1gal w/pure maple syrup. Adding tart cherry, wild blueberry concentrates and cinnamon sticks. Early feedback...prefer the Wyeast1272 & S-04. Time will tell...

Cheers!

 

[ROLLTIDE]

Accepting donations of any you don't want

 

[paneubert]

Currently doing 1 gallon with 775 and one with 002. Will update in a few weeks!

 

[bmd2k1]

Currently doing 1 gallon with 775 and one with 002. Will update in a few weeks!

Based on that White Labs testing results....WLP002 is one I'm looking at trying too. [emoji111]

 

[paneubert]

Based on that White Labs testing results....WLP002 is one I'm looking at trying too. [emoji111]

Yeah. I am a little worried about my 002. I used a small vial from my frozen yeast bank and it did not really show much signs of life in my starter. Let it go on the stir plate for 24 hours. Seemed to increase a little bit in density (maybe), and did seem to somewhat cloud the liquid a bit, but since it is the consistency of dense toothpaste 5 seconds after turning off my stir plate, hard to tell how much growth happened. Thought it might just not show a lot of activity in general due to the heavy floc profile, so I tossed it in my gallon of juice after 24 hours. Barely any activity seen after 24 hours in the gallon. Juuuuuuuuuuuuuust starting to see a few tiny bubbles and a bubble thru the blowoff tube maybe every 30 seconds. It is fermenting, but I would not be surprised if the end result isn't that great due to a big underpitch. I guess if it still tastes good after such a slow start, then we know this is a winning yeast.

 

[bmd2k1]

Continuing my experimenting ...just started a 1gal batch w/Red Star Premier Cuvee. Zero additions.

Healthy krausen formed within 4hrs...room temp 66F.

 

[bmd2k1]

Came across this site which has charts for White Labs yeasts of alcohol tolerance, floccuation, attenuation & optimal temps

http://www.lugwrenchbrewing.com/2010/06/alcohol-tolerance-ranges-by-yeast.html?m=1

 

[Maylar]

Thanks. Her's another one, for wine yeasts. It shows a bunch of important parameters for popular yeasts. I wish there was something similar for ale and beer yeasts.

http://www.piwine.com/media/pdf/yeast-selection-chart.pdf

 

[Northern_Brewer]

The first link in this post has a load of phenotype data on yeast, and Suregork & friends have tentatively identified most of the White Labs yeasts within it. It's far from perfect, but it's a start.

 

[AzOr]

The general thing to do is try different yeasts and see which one(s) you like and work well with your process.

Which yeasts are "must try"? Is there a repository of information somewhere I'm missing that explains different flavors and other characteristics?
https://byo.com/stories/issue/item/3479-yeast-selection-for-cider - this article is great but pretty limited. The yeast I use isn't even mentioned. Think we can do better?

Kevin has an extreme wealth of info up in the sticky but 1. it's not exactly organized (sorry Kevin) and 2. he's specifically looking for yeasts that fit his process (not too fast, cold crash easily, sweet cider only).

Currently I fully ferment my juice and then bottle carb. Is that what most people do?

The linked article says good things about Mangrove Jack’s M2 yeast. Also the linked article in tha5 article also says good things about M2.

I’ve had great results as well.

 

[bmd2k1]

Not sure if it holds for all wine yeasts...but for the two I've tried...71B & Cuvee...both are MUCH cloudier than ale yeasts Wyeast1272 & S-04. No pectin enzyme involved in all cases...same AJ, temps etc.

 

[MarkKF]

I have a fresh pressed + 71b right now that is cloudy after two months. You can see thru it but it’s like the bathroom mirror after a hot shower. Next to it is fresh pressed + Brewers Best Ciderhouse Select that was crystal clear after just three weeks.

 

[dmtaylor]

Nothing gelatin can't fix.