Chronic attenuation issues

[VikeMan]

In terms of my water I used. I used 6 gallons RO, 3 gallons house water in the mash, then sparged with all RO Water. I don't know what is in my water. Thats why I like to dilute it with RO. Is this a bad idea? Should I go straight RO, then add my 2 tsp Calcium Chloride 1 tsp Gypsum. ( I got this mineral ratio from Gordon Strong book). I always used 5.2 in the past, with RO/ House water blend in the mash.

If you don't know what's in your water, building from distilled or RO is definitely a better idea (or find out what's in your water). The amount and type of salts (and sometimes acids like lactic or phosphoric) depends on your desired target pH, your preferences, the grain bill, and the base water.

If you decide to go down the water treatment path, get a mash pH calculator. My favorite standalone calculator is MpH, which is a free download. If you want an integrated brewing spreadsheet, BrewCipher (also free) includes the MpH models embedded in its water calcs.

ETA:
MpH link
BrewCipher link

 

[TheMadKing]

Thanks Vikeman, for the PH meter recommendations.
My current house is in Charlotte, NC area. which is lake water I believe. But I always did this kind of blend.

Am I correct in understanding that your attenuation issues have begun since moving to Charlotte? Or no?

 

[OldSkrecz1]

Am I correct in understanding that your attenuation issues have begun since moving to Charlotte? Or no?

Yes sir

 

[TheMadKing]

Yes sir

Oh wow, ok.. That is a huge red flag about the water then

I'll second the advice to go 100% RO water for your next brew and see if that fixes it.

 

[VikeMan]

Yes sir

To clarify, did your problems start with the first batch you brewed after moving? Or were there some good batches there (new place) before the problem started, and if so, how many?

 

[OldSkrecz1]

To clarify, did your problems start with the first batch you brewed after moving? Or were there some good batches there (new place) before the problem started, and if so, how many?

Sorry guys!!! I never thought it would be a problem. Yes.. The chronic problems started happening, since i moved. Since the majority of my brewing water has been RO, mixed with house water. I didnt think it would be an issue. Also, I thought 5.2 wasn't a scam. For my next batch Im going straight RO with salts. Hoping to get a Milwaukee PH Meter by then. Ill let you know what happens to this current batch, after the weekend. I increased the temp to 73F.

 

[VikeMan]

LOL. I still can't tell if the problem started as soon as you moved, or sometime after. But I will assume the former, unless you say otherwise!

Also, diluting base water with RO can be an effective technique, but 50% of the concentration of an unknown water profile is still an unknown water profile, if you take my meaning.

Feel free to hit me up when you start to build your next water profile from RO.

 

[OldSkrecz1]

Good Morning ,

After letting the beer sit for the weekend, @ 74F. The gravity, is still at 1.021.
Im thinking that I need to add some enzymes to dry this out. Then get a starter going and repitch.
What do you guys think?
Has anyone had good success with enzymes in the fermenter, and what brand did you use.
thanks

 

[TheMadKing]

Good Morning ,

After letting the beer sit for the weekend, @ 74F. The gravity, is still at 1.021.
Im thinking that I need to add some enzymes to dry this out. Then get a starter going and repitch.
What do you guys think?
Has anyone had good success with enzymes in the fermenter, and what brand did you use.
thanks

I have used glucoamylase extensively for making brut IPA's and I have more warnings than anything else:

1. a little goes a long way - less than 0.25 gram in a 5 gallon batch is MORE than enough
2. You don't need to pitch any additional yeast, what's in there should do fine
3. It will dry your beer out to .997 if you let it go, so watch the gravity and chill it down to serving temps when it's where you want it
4. I have had several instances where the yeast became super-non-flocculant and powdery, (the beer became milky) and produced a high amount of H2S (egg farts smell). I suspect that I have created the conditions to induce glucose repression by adding too much enzyme
5. Clean your fermenter and kegs with a strong caustic or boiling water after the brew to make sure you denature the enzymes. They will stick around and affect your subsequent batches

 

[doug293cz]

I have used glucoamylase extensively for making brut IPA's and I have more warnings than anything else:

1. a little goes a long way - less than 0.25 gram in a 5 gallon batch is MORE than enough
2. You don't need to pitch any additional yeast, what's in there should do fine
3. It will dry your beer out to .997 if you let it go, so watch the gravity and chill it down to serving temps when it's where you want it
4. I have had several instances where the yeast became super-non-flocculant and powdery, (the beer became milky) and produced a high amount of H2S (egg farts smell). I suspect that I have created the conditions to induce glucose repression by adding too much enzyme
5. Clean your fermenter and kegs with a strong caustic or boiling water after the brew to make sure you denature the enzymes. They will stick around and affect your subsequent batches

If you don't want to dry the beer out completely, alpha amylase is a safer choice than glucoamylase (aka amyloglucosidase.) Gluco will reduce any remaining carbohydrates in the beer to glucose, which is fully fermentable. Alpha will reduce remaining carbohydrates to fermentable sugars and limit dextrins. The remaining limit dextrins will keep your beer from being totally dry.

Brew on

 

[hottpeper13]

You may as well have a calcium issue,and if my beer had low or not right fermentation I would not repitch that yeast. I tell people that move into my hood that 50/50 house/RO is good for stouts and porters bur RO for lighter beers. I found this out by getting a water test.....don't waste grain funds on water if you don't need to get it tested! I have the meter that came with Palmer's water testing kit and it has never failed me, has .02 accuracy and a temp read out. A 100 gram scale is a must if your using salts,I add enough for 75-100 ppm of calcium.

 

[OldSkrecz1]

You may as well have a calcium issue,and if my beer had low or not right fermentation I would not repitch that yeast. I tell people that move into my hood that 50/50 house/RO is good for stouts and porters bur RO for lighter beers. I found this out by getting a water test.....don't waste grain funds on water if you don't need to get it tested! I have the meter that came with Palmer's water testing kit and it has never failed me, has .02 accuracy and a temp read out. A 100 gram scale is a must if your using salts,I add enough for 75-100 ppm of calcium.

I ordered the PH meter for the next brew.

I did get BSG Amylase Enzyme. How much should I add to my fermentor? Its a 10 gallon batch. Also, do I just add it directly to the fermentor? or should i mix it with water, than add.

thanks

 

[doug293cz]

I ordered the PH meter for the next brew.

I did get BSG Amylase Enzyme. How much should I add to my fermentor? Its a 10 gallon batch. Also, do I just add it directly to the fermentor? or should i mix it with water, than add.

thanks

Is it liquid or powder? If liquid, I would just dump it in. If powder, I dissolve it in some warm water (that had been boiled to sanitize) before adding it. Be sure to use good sanitization procedures when adding.

"Fungal α-amylase is recommended for use in mashing, or in the fermentation/maturation stages. In fermentation/maturation, the recommended dosage is 1-4g/hL (1.2-4.8mL/hL) beer."​

​

10 gal is about 0.4 hL, so 1 mL of the liquid should be enough for your fermenter. Expect it to take a few days to work.

Brew on

 

[OldSkrecz1]

Is it liquid or powder? If liquid, I would just dump it in. If powder, I dissolve it in some warm water (that had been boiled to sanitize) before adding it. Be sure to use good sanitization procedures when adding.

"Fungal α-amylase is recommended for use in mashing, or in the fermentation/maturation stages. In fermentation/maturation, the recommended dosage is 1-4g/hL (1.2-4.8mL/hL) beer."​

​

10 gal is about 0.4 hL, so 1 mL of the liquid should be enough for your fermenter. Expect it to take a few days to work.

Brew on

its dry powder.. 1 tsp?

 

[doug293cz]

1 - 2 tsps is probably a good place to start. I don't think having excess will dry the beer out any more than a little. More will just work faster.

Brew on

 

[OldSkrecz1]

OK everyone. I used the enzyme got it down to 1.012.
Also, bought myself a fathers day gift. Milwaukee MW102 PH meter and some Phosphoric Acid. I downloaded the Brewcipher xls.. So I need some help with the salt additions. I'm going to brew sometime next week.


Im going to go straight RO water.

Red ale. 11 gallon batch. Does this look right to you?

 

[VikeMan]

OK everyone. I used the enzyme got it down to 1.012.
Also, bought myself a fathers day gift. Milwaukee MW102 PH meter and some Phosphoric Acid. I downloaded the Brewcipher xls.. So I need some help with the salt additions. I'm going to brew sometime next week.


Im going to go straight RO water.

Red ale. 11 gallon batch. Does this look right to you?
View attachment 685668

That looks fine. I see you have the Sparge Water Acidification set to "Y" to show its result on the recipe tab. You really don't need to acidify sparge water when using distilled/RO. It has no buffering capacity, so there's no danger of tannin extraction/astringency in the runoff.

 

[GRBC]

I have a HERMs setup too. I have to keep the water in the HLT 1-2F above my target mash temp. I believe that if you are recirculating wort for an hour through a herms coil that is sitting at 158, then you are basically mashing at 158.

 

[OldSkrecz1]

Hey guys.. Getting ready to brew tomorrow with my new PH meter. I went to Walmart and filled 18 gallons of water from the Primowater machine. It suppose to be RO water. I measured my water its at 6.2. Isn't it suppose to be 7.0? since its RO water? Can this be my problem?

 

[VikeMan]

Hey guys.. Getting ready to brew tomorrow with my new PH meter. I went to Walmart and filled 18 gallons of water from the Primowater machine. It suppose to be RO water. I measured my water its at 6.2. Isn't it suppose to be 7.0? since its RO water? Can this be my problem?

The water is probably fine. It absorbs CO2, which influences the pH.

ETA: pH readings of distilled/RO water aren't necessarily reliable anyway.

 

[OldSkrecz1]

The water is probably fine. It absorbs CO2, which influences the pH.

where is the CO2 coming from?

 

[VikeMan]

where is the CO2 coming from?

The air.

 

[OldSkrecz1]

The air.

ok.. makes sense

 

[OldSkrecz1]

should I add anything to the sparge water tank, to get it to the 5.8 to 6.0 range?

 

[OldSkrecz1]

should I add anything to the sparge water tank, to get it to the 5.8 to 6.0 range?

I guess what should my sparge water PH be?

 

[VikeMan]

should I add anything to the sparge water tank, to get it to the 5.8 to 6.0 range?

I guess what should my sparge water PH be?

If you're using distilled/RO water to sparge, its pH isn't relevant. It has no buffering capacity, so it's fine "as is."

 

[OldSkrecz1]

OK.. just finished my red ale. With my new PH meter. I went real detailed with the readings. I added 8 grams of Cacl2 and 4 grams of Gypsum in the mash. I used all RO water for mash water and sparge. How does it look? My PH seems very low. Should I worry?

Mash time	PH reading
7:50​	5.05​
8:00​	5.12​
8:05​	5.15​
8:11​	5.15​
8:20​	5.12​
8:32​	5.14​
8:48​	5.13​
9:00​	5.13​
started sparging
after 6 Gal of sparging:	5.00​
after 10 gals of Sparging	5.35​
last 1/2 gal of sparging	5.5​
total kettle PH (13gallons)	5.1​

 

[OldSkrecz1]

So, I also found out about my temperature issues. My Blichmann Brewmomtor gets messed up after I mash in. I calibrated it last night. I couldn't believe that my mash temp drop so quickly. so I double checked with another thermometer. It Seems that the the grains are compacting in the 1/2 coupling that my Brewmometer is screwed into. Has anyone experienced that? WTF?

 

[VikeMan]

OK.. just finished my red ale. With my new PH meter. I went real detailed with the readings. I added 8 grams of Cacl2 and 4 grams of Gypsum in the mash. I used all RO water for mash water and sparge. How does it look? My PH seems very low. Should I worry?

Did you measure the mash pH at mash temperature? If so, add about 0.3 to get the pH at room temperature. It's actually better to cool the sample down and measure at room temp, if for no other reason than it's less wear on your pH meter's probe.

 

[dwhite60]

Gotta ask, you are using a hydrometer correct? Not a refractometer?

Everything stopping at about 1.020. I been there.