Chimay Grande Réserve (Blue)

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

CSI - with exception to color, what will the difference be between those three batches using 45, 90, and 180?

So far we've only run two variations in the trial 001 (D-45) and 002 (D-90). The syrup variations create a unique flavor profile that's noticeable. D-45 so far has hit the Grande Reserve flavor profile very nicely with a balance of malty, fresh fruit, brown sugar/caramel, spice. The 002 tastes between a Westmalle doubel and Rochefort 8 with deep stone fruit flavors...mainly plums. We do have to see how they complete in bottle conditioning over the next 6+ months.

We haven't used D-180 in a Chimay Grande Reserve clone since even one pouch would make this ale much too dark.

I would guess D-180 with this base recipe would come out somewhere between a Wesvleteren 8 and a Rochefort 10 albeit lower gravity than the R10. To create a Chimay style double or quad with D-180 could be very interesting but that will be up to creative brewers. A craft brewery could easily be built around an ale this good.

 

[Oophaga]

Getting ready to order the grains and hops for this recipe. How does this sound as hop adjustments due to alpha acids.

2.75 oz Saaz(3.2% AA) for 24.5 IBU
1.22 oz Hallertauer(4.5% AA) for 5.5 IBU

Thanks! Ordering one of each candi syrups so that I can see the flavor profiles with the Chimay yeast, plus I can't see anything wrong with having three different batches of Belgians around

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Getting ready to order the grains and hops for this recipe. How does this sound as hop adjustments due to alpha acids.

2.75 oz Saaz(3.2% AA) for 24.5 IBU
1.22 oz Hallertauer(4.5% AA) for 5.5 IBU

Thanks! Ordering one of each candi syrups so that I can see the flavor profiles with the Chimay yeast, plus I can't see anything wrong with having three different batches of Belgians around

The IBU's match up. Absolutely agree. I would very much like to know how the D-180 performs in this ale. It might not be too much of stretch to formulate a Quad recipe from the Grande Reserve using D-180.

 

[Oophaga]

Thanks for the reply! I will definitely keep you posted on it. I am planning on brewing the d-45 first, followed by the d-180. Question is should I keep all grains and hops consistent as kind of a control, or bump the grains and make things interesting. So many options!

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Thanks for the reply! I will definitely keep you posted on it. I am planning on brewing the d-45 first, followed by the d-180. Question is should I keep all grains and hops consistent as kind of a control, or bump the grains and make things interesting. So many options!

I think keeping the base recipe exact is a great idea for comparison.

 

[Oophaga]

Just mashed in, hit just below 149 and after a quick yet thorough mixing settled at 148. Will report back when bottled and tasted with my numbers. Initial brew is going to be with D-45, followed by d-180 and d-90 respectively. I am looking forward to this one. The color of the wort was lighter than I expected, but than again that's not a proper way to tell SRM anyways. We will see once in secondary fr a better idea. SG a little high 1.079. I will also be keeping mash volume, sparge volume, and procedures as consistent as possible. As well as grain base. Only hop changes if necessary due to AA.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Just mashed in, hit just below 149 and after a quick yet thorough mixing settled at 148. Will report back when bottled and tasted with my numbers. Initial brew is going to be with D-45, followed by d-180 and d-90 respectively. I am looking forward to this one. The color of the wort was lighter than I expected, but than again that's not a proper way to tell SRM anyways. We will see once in secondary fr a better idea. SG a little high 1.079. I will also be keeping mash volume, sparge volume, and procedures as consistent as possible. As well as grain base. Only hop changes if necessary due to AA.

It looks like your OG hit at near perfection In primary we also thought the SRM was much too light. The suspended yeast gives it a much lighter appearance initially. This was the reason we stepped up to using D-90 in trial 002 before trial 001 had a chance to flocc. As 001 flocced we realized the color was a little light but the flavor was worth keepoing the 001 trial. I just tasted another of both at 6 weeks conditioning and they have that subtle understated Belgian malty-caramel of the actual Chimay Blue. Aging very nicely at 58-59F.

Looking forward to your experiment with darker syrups...

 

[Oophaga]

I am glad to hear that! It's bubbling away at 63 fermenter temp right now(split between the numbers on this post and on the PDF from your site) will ramp along the way. Color was my only worry but not anymore. I would be very happy to send some. Ill do the d-180 once the first batch is carbing at room temp. I am already planning a quad with a blend of syrups. Obviously it'll be a whole. Now to hunt a source for more heavy belgian bottles.

 

[Oophaga]

Day 12 of primary, down to 1.012 sg. Down from 1.018 on day 9. It is sitting at 68 degrees, wondering if its best to let it get down to 1.01 or get it off that yeast? Any thoughts? Color is definitely darker than before, yet still slightly lighter than I expected. We will see how much the color changes once cleared, still very cloudy in the primary.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Day 12 of primary, down to 1.012 sg. Down from 1.018 on day 9. It is sitting at 68 degrees, wondering if its best to let it get down to 1.01 or get it off that yeast? Any thoughts? Color is definitely darker than before, yet still slightly lighter than I expected. We will see how much the color changes once cleared, still very cloudy in the primary.

Definitely get it off the primary yeast. As John Palmer always says "autolysis is always lurking...". The suspended active yeast will finish it. The color will be lighter with D-45 ad very close with D-90

 

[HopSong]

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[homebrewdad]

Just wanted to say that I love this beer, and your recipe (and results) seem to be the best clone I've seen online.

I don't have the fermenter space right now, bu there will come a day that I brew this beer.

Thanks for the extensive info!

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Just wanted to say that I love this beer, and your recipe (and results) seem to be the best clone I've seen online.

I don't have the fermenter space right now, bu there will come a day that I brew this beer.

Thanks for the extensive info!

Much appreciated.

 

[Chromebrew]

I have your 001 version in primary right now and im super excited... a bit too excited as it were. So i had harvested some yeast from a Chimay Blue bottle and made a big starter and used that. After krausen started i started to freak out cause i was uncertain whether or not they used a bottling strain and i didnt want to waste such a delicious brew. So i ended up pitching some WLP500 i had in the fridge on top of it, a really dumb move looking back on it. But its just doing its thing.

Can you guys put my mind at ease here? Ive read that harvested Chimay yeast should be wlp500 but ive read a couple things that had me doubting it. Did i possibly jack up my dubbel by overpitching?

Thanks!

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

I have your 001 version in primary right now and im super excited... a bit too excited as it were. So i had harvested some yeast from a Chimay Blue bottle and made a big starter and used that. After krausen started i started to freak out cause i was uncertain whether or not they used a bottling strain and i didnt want to waste such a delicious brew. So i ended up pitching some WLP500 i had in the fridge on top of it, a really dumb move looking back on it. But its just doing its thing.

Can you guys put my mind at ease here? Ive read that harvested Chimay yeast should be wlp500 but ive read a couple things that had me doubting it. Did i possibly jack up my dubbel by overpitching?

Thanks!

As recently as January this year the strain has been bottle cultured and verified as a slightly spicier mutation of the Chimay ferm yeast, (by CSI). Denny Conn has mentioned in posts that he prefers the bottle cultured one. You're fine. Yeast over continents and time mutates.

When you hit within 1 gravity point you can cold crash it and bring the ferm to a 'near' halt. This will force flocc the yeast...then move it to secondary. Once in secondary the crash should be in the mid 30's (35-36F) and let the remainder of the suspended yeast flocc. This will control your gravity, (and also preserve your starting ester profile).

 

[Oophaga]

For those that are brewing this, don't freak out about the color like I did, CSI did alleviate much of those worries yet the persisted in the back of my mind :cross:. I kept thinking I maybe didn't boil enough to contribute to the light color, when I transferred to carboy and its on its way to being way darker now. Its smell and taste is really starting to come together. I was fairly on point with the temperature control for this batch, with a cold snap dropping the end of primary one night to 64 again. Initial sample had a strong banana smell despite being fermented quite cool, yet that seems to be subduing dramatically as it continues to ferment. It is now a faint ripe banana aroma, that I needed to point out for others to notice.

Thanks again for all the help CSI.

Ryan

 

[Chromebrew]

Thanks for providing such great info! I will be looking for more of your posts

 

[hbr2547]

Thanks for providing such great info! I will be looking for more of your posts

Any thoughts on using 1/2 45 and 1/2 90 or 3/4 45 and 1/4 90 to try and remain close in srm with benefits of 90 flavors?

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Any thoughts on using 1/2 45 and 1/2 90 or 3/4 45 and 1/4 90 to try and remain close in srm with benefits of 90 flavors?

The sky is the limit on variations to the theme for this ale. I can say that the 002 trial using 1lb of D-90 is quite possibly the best Belgian ale I have ever tasted import or otherwise. That being said, the 002 trial is not the same ale as the Chimay Grande Reserve. The flavor profiles are very different using D-90. Keeping on track with a true CGR clone I would only use D-45 and only 1 lb / 5 gal. and ferment low. WLP500 will produce some of the most amazing esters at 62-64. No need to use spices in this ale when the yeast is producing anise-like esters on its own

Once the yeast floccs and the first glass is poured you will notice the SRM is extremely close to the import...and you may even say you have brewed a better ale...

About fermentation aromas...you will get a very fruity nose on the CO2 discharge from the vapor lock even at very low temps. A couple of months into bottle conditioning this will all but disappear leaving an understated spice, hops, bread, and slight candi sugar finish much like the original.

 

[chutracheese]

Is the only difference between v1and v2 using d90 instead of d45?

 

[hbr2547]

Is the only difference between v1and v2 using d90 instead of d45?

Just brewed the trial 002...crash chilling as we speak. Looking fwd to this one!!!

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

The observation is in response to other posters requesting an ABT 12 clone; the St Bernardus yeast isn't available commercially as far as I know and BLAM says the brewery employs a second yeast for bottle conditioning. If you don't have the yeast I don't think you can rally really produce the beer.

BTW St Bernardus ABT 12 is my # 1, I like it more than any of Trappists.. yes sacrilege I know.

[OT]
Sid, I meant to respond to you on the SB12 yeast strains but we had not cultured or tested the strains in the SB12 until now. In this particular case BLAM is correct on the re-fermentation yeast being a secondary strain. Alternatively we'll try using US commercial Westmalle and also bottle conditioned yeast from a Westy 12. We have some really smart guys working on the St. Bernardus Abt12 trial and we expect to get the recipe close using Westmalle.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Is the only difference between v1and v2 using d90 instead of d45?

Yes, 001 was lighter than the 002 clone. As it turns out 001 was very close but light on SRM, but the ester profile, and overall flavor were unmistakably good. The 002 trial (w/ D-90) turned out a closer match on SRM.

 

[hbr2547]

A quick picture of my 002 attempt...overshot my gravity and ended up hitting 80 percent efficiency and 1.09.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

A quick picture of my 002 attempt...overshot my gravity and ended up hitting 80 percent efficiency and 1.09.



View attachment 103630

Looks really good

 

[Oophaga]

Took another sample today, right around 1.011. Sitting at 58 degrees hoping it will finish out. I am still noticing a bit of banana, I know I did not let the fermentation temperature above 68, which it wasn't even there for long. Did you experience this flavor and aroma early on CSI? Color is very close to where it should be now, still needs to clear but its obvious itll darken the few more shades it needs.


Ryan

 

[sid_marx]

Sid, I meant to respond to you on the SB12 yeast strains but we had not cultured or tested the strains in the SB12 until now. In this particular case BLAM is correct on the re-fermentation yeast being a secondary strain. Alternatively we'll try using US commercial Westmalle and also bottle conditioned yeast from a Westy 12. We have some really smart guys working on the St. Bernardus Abt12 trial and we expect to get the recipe right on.

Thanks for responding, I've already scoped the recently published draft ABT 12 recipe on your website and have the ingredients ready to go. I've also brewed a couple of small test batches and a 20l quad using bottle cultured pater 6 (from a 33cl bottle). I bottled the full size batch a couple of weeks ago. For my money I think the bottled cultured pater 6 produces beer that is closer to St Bernardus than 3787 using a similar base recipe. But for me the truth will be in tasting the finished product...

 

[hbr2547]

Not a Chimay but a westy blonde recipe from csi - great brew....thanks for sharing recipe.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Not a Chimay but a westy blonde recipe from csi - great brew....thanks for sharing recipe.


View attachment 104305

Beautiful ale!

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Thanks for responding, I've already scoped the recently published draft ABT 12 recipe on your website and have the ingredients ready to go. I've also brewed a couple of small test batches and a 20l quad using bottle cultured pater 6 (from a 33cl bottle). I bottled the full size batch a couple of weeks ago. For my money I think the bottled cultured pater 6 produces beer that is closer to St Bernardus than 3787 using a similar base recipe. But for me the truth will be in tasting the finished product...

Thanks sid! I had not considered that yeast. We will certainly give it a try also. Much appreciated.

But for me the truth will be in tasting the finished product...

Yes, concur