Chimay Grande Réserve (Blue)

[Oophaga]

Do you recommend repitch at bottling for this one?

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Do you recommend repitch at bottling for this one?

On both trials 001 and 002 we chose not to repitch. We did allow some of the secondary yeast to remain when we primed and it was enough to carb very nicely.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Took another sample today, right around 1.011. Sitting at 58 degrees hoping it will finish out. I am still noticing a bit of banana, I know I did not let the fermentation temperature above 68, which it wasn't even there for long. Did you experience this flavor and aroma early on CSI? Color is very close to where it should be now, still needs to clear but its obvious itll darken the few more shades it needs.


Ryan

So far in the two trials I detected a spicy grape aroma followed by multi-fruit ester as it rose to 68F. The fruit esters have already aged into subtle hints that balance very nicely with the hops and bready malt. No banana aromas that I could discern.

 

[Oophaga]

Well I bottled to corked Belgian's yesterday, carbed to 3 volumes. Tasted the left over from the bottling bucket and wow. Already the difference from a week ago is astonishing. So balanced, slight alcohol, but then again its 9% so two weeks from now I will sample again. Nice belgian ester and spice, with the bready malt backbone. Slight fruit, but not too much, and the Banana is no longer noticeable. Bottled twelve capable Belgian 375ml to sample once a month to monitor progress. Hopefully I will have the the patience and strength to not kill this batch before a years time. I am very excited about this batch. I will be doing the D180 soon, plan on waiting til primary of an imperial stout is finished first. Partly to so I can track down enough belgian strength bottles.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Well I bottled to corked Belgian's yesterday, carbed to 3 volumes. Tasted the left over from the bottling bucket and wow. Already the difference from a week ago is astonishing. So balanced, slight alcohol, but then again its 9% so two weeks from now I will sample again. Nice belgian ester and spice, with the bready malt backbone. Slight fruit, but not too much, and the Banana is no longer noticeable. Bottled twelve capable Belgian 375ml to sample once a month to monitor progress. Hopefully I will have the the patience and strength to not kill this batch before a years time. I am very excited about this batch. I will be doing the D180 soon, plan on waiting til primary of an imperial stout is finished first. Partly to so I can track down enough belgian strength bottles.

It sounds like you hit the numbers spot on. This trial turned out to be one of the best ales we have in house. Time to brew it as-is a few more times just to make sure we have enough for the year

 

[fatboy34]

I brewed this recipe last night. I did BIAB, I added a pound of caramunich and otherwise followed the recipe. I started with 8.5 gals of water and after boil was down to just 4.5. I usually start at about 7.5 gals but figured with 90 min boil and all that grain I should use a bit more. I guess I still undershot it. My concern is my OG was 1.096! I did then add my 2.25L starter so it totaled about 5 gals but think I'm going to have issues?

Also, when do folks add the syrup? 10 mins till flameout? That's what I did for this one.
Thanks

 

[ultravista]

fatboy34 - did you add the entire 2.25l of starter or just the yeasty slurry? While the volume is small, I would have left the wort behind and only tossed the yeast. My $.02.

 

[fatboy34]

I added the entire thing. I have never done a starter that big, is that bad practice?

 

[DrummerBoySeth]

I added the entire thing. I have never done a starter that big, is that bad practice?

There is some concern that the "starter beer" (the liquid on top of the yeast) in your finished starter may not have a good flavor profile (no hops, fermentation geared towards yeast reproduction, not clean flavor profile, etc) and can have a negative effect on the flavor of the finished beer.

I generally will pitch 1L starters directly to the wort (starter beer and all), but if I have to make a 2L or larger starter, then I "cold crash" it in the fridge for a day or 2 to let the yeast settle to the bottom of the flask, pour out the starter beer, and use only the yeast slurry.

I have never noticed off flavors from starter beer, because it is generally made with the same grain bill/extract type as the recipe beer, but it is certainly a possibility to consider when making big starters.

 

[gugguson]

Does anybody have a Beersmith export of this recipe? I'm having problem setting it up in Beersmith because the result is a much lower SRM beer, Beersmith gives 12 SRM while the recipe here 20.3.

Beersmith is also calculationg to high FG but I'm less worried about that.

I only have access to Weyermann grains, but I think I have selected pretty accurate replacements.


Recipe: Chimay grande reserve TYPE: Partial Mash
Style: Belgian Dark Strong Ale
---RECIPE SPECIFICATIONS-----------------------------------------------
SRM: 12.3 SRM SRM RANGE: 12.0-22.0 SRM
IBU: 23.7 IBUs Tinseth IBU RANGE: 20.0-35.0 IBUs
OG: 1.077 SG OG RANGE: 1.075-1.110 SG
FG: 1.016 SG FG RANGE: 1.010-1.024 SG
BU:GU: 0.309 Calories: 733.3 kcal/l Est ABV: 8.0 %
EE%: 66.00 % Batch: 21.12 l Boil: 26.50 l BT: 90 Mins

---WATER CHEMISTRY ADDITIONS----------------


Total Grain Weight: 7.71 kg Total Hops: 2.50 oz oz.
---MASH/STEEP PROCESS------MASH PH:5.40 ------
>>>>>>>>>>-ADD WATER CHEMICALS BEFORE GRAINS!!<<<<<<<
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
6.35 kg Pilsner (Weyermann) (1.7 SRM) Grain 1 82.4 %
0.45 kg Caramunich I (Weyermann) (51.0 SRM) Grain 2 5.9 %
0.45 kg Wheat, Torrified (1.7 SRM) Grain 3 5.9 %


Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 18.93 l of water at 70.7 C 64.5 C 75 min
Mash Out Add 12.11 l of water at 95.3 C 75.6 C 10 min

---SPARGE PROCESS---
>>>>>>>>>>-RECYCLE FIRST RUNNINGS & VERIFY GRAIN/MLT TEMPS: 22.2 C/22.2 C
>>>>>>>>>>-ADD BOIL CHEMICALS BEFORE FWH
Fly sparge with 2.73 l water at 75.6 C

---BOIL PROCESS-----------------------------
Est Pre_Boil Gravity: 1.061 SG Est OG: 1.077 SG
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
0.45 kg D-45 candi syrup (45.0 SRM) Extract 4 5.9 %
1.50 oz Saaz [4.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 18.4 IBUs
1.00 oz Hallertauer [4.80 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 6 5.3 IBUs


---FERM PROCESS-----------------------------
Primary Start: 10.05.2013 - 7.00 Days at 17.8 C
Secondary Start: 17.05.2013 - 7.00 Days at 10.0 C
Style Carb Range: 2.30-2.90 Vols
Bottling Date: 31.05.2013 with 2.3 Volumes CO2:
---NOTES------------------------------------

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Does anybody have a Beersmith export of this recipe? I'm having problem setting it up in Beersmith because the result is a much lower SRM beer, Beersmith gives 12 SRM while the recipe here 20.3.

Beersmith is also calculationg to high FG but I'm less worried about that.

I only have access to Weyermann grains, but I think I have selected pretty accurate replacements.

Weyermann's should work nicely. The W. Pale is slightly more bready than Castle or Dingeman's (IMHO), and will probably balance the WLP500 esters.

The jury is still out on the exact color as reported, (via BLAM correction), but 1 lb of D-45 appears to have matched initially but then aged out lighter. Trial 002 (w/D-90) turns out to have been darker initially but aged out about the same as the CGR. If you are brewing the 002 trial using D-90 lower the primary ferm temp to 63-64 to create the balance of fruit/spice that this ale needs.

 

[Oophaga]

Give this recipe the time it needs in the bottles. It is becoming flat out delicious over time. Initially the fruit esters overpowered the subtle spice and bready notes, not anymore. In addition to the alcohol bite. It is completely gone. Its still very young, I bottled in the beginning of march. I still feel its slightly lighter than chimay but very delicious either way. Maybe because beersmith calculates for trub loss and such your actually brewing a larger batch size.

Definitely rebrew worthy without a doubt. I have so many ideas with these delicious csi products.

 

[allenc85]

Does anybody have a Beersmith export of this recipe? I'm having problem setting it up in Beersmith because the result is a much lower SRM beer, Beersmith gives 12 SRM while the recipe here 20.3.
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I was getting similar results using BeerSmith, so I'm using the D90 - with the great reviews flavor wise and the 'more' appropriate color via BeerSmith I figure I can't go wrong...

One thing - I'm considering holding the D90 until Day 3 of primary fermentation and adding half Day 3 and the other half Day 5... Seems I've read good things on adding sugar through out fermentation to keep the yeast happy, thoughts?

 

[Sleepyemt]

The color needs to be adjusted if your using beersmith, candi syrup is packaged with lovibond, and it needs to be srm... There's an equation to convert it. I just don't have it in front of me

 

[allenc85]

According to the website, http://www.candisyrup.com/products.html , it shows D90 as 90 SRM, which is how I input for Beersmith

 

[Sleepyemt]

The 90 L* means lovibond which is a different scale, From CSI:

Thanks for the good word. Lovibond is comparative to SRM in the following formula:

deg Lovibond = (SRM + 0.6) / 1.35

For instance, L 45 would equate to about 59.9 SRM.

Cheers,

 

[Sleepyemt]

The 90 L* means lovibond which is a different scale, From CSI:

Thanks for the good word. Lovibond is comparative to SRM in the following formula:

deg Lovibond = (SRM + 0.6) / 1.35

For instance, L 45 would equate to about 59.9 SRM.

Cheers,

Actually should be 60.15... Sorry was from a copied pm....

 

[allenc85]

Did you follow the link I included? On their website it states
"Contents: Beet sugar, water.
Specifications: SRM - 90, PPG - 1.032
Retail Availability: 1lb pouches.
Commercial Quantities: Yes, contact us here"

It never mentions Lovibond

 

[allenc85]

but thank you for the conversion formula for Lovibond to SRM

 

[Sleepyemt]

Yeah, I'm just letting you know my previous conversation with them. Which is why numbers aren't matching.... It shows lovibond right on the bag. 45L, 90L, 180L....

Maybe CSI will clear this up for us?

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Yeah, I'm just letting you know my previous conversation with them. Which is why numbers aren't matching.... It shows lovibond right on the bag. 45L, 90L, 180L....

Maybe CSI will clear this up for us?

I'll pass this up the chain to see where the two meet on the retail packaging side. I work with the webmaster on the site info and mainly in bulk with Craft Brewers. I do know that all of our color analysis was originally done in SRM. I suspect it is probably a print/packaging issue. See bulk D-180 spec label for 50 lb pail below:

 

[Sleepyemt]

Ok, let us know... I spoke with AJ about the Srm to lovibond. I'm trying to figure out how to put it in beersmith as well

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Ok, let us know... I spoke with AJ about the Srm to lovibond. I'm trying to figure out how to put it in beersmith as well

Here's the word from our senior partner. All of our Candi Syrups were measured in SRM and should be entered into brewing software as: D-45 = SRM 45, D-90 = 90 SRM, D-180 = 180 SRM, Golden = 5 SRM. We will have new retail packaging being released this Fall that will be printed with SRM.

 

[Sleepyemt]

Appreciate it! Sorry to distract from the recipe!

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Appreciate it! Sorry to distract from the recipe!

No problem. It's our pleasure.

 

[shadows69]

Brewed this yesterday. Missed my Og came in at 1.083. Still this should turn out pretty good. Never had Chimay but everyone says it's really good.
Batch Size 5.500 gal Boil Size 6.394 gal
Boil Time 60.000 min Efficiency 75%
OG 1.086 FG 1.020
ABV 8.6% Bitterness 29.9 IBU (Tinseth)
Color 15.9 srm (Morey) Calories (per 12 oz.) 285

Name Type Amount Mashed Late Yield Color
Briess - 2 Row Brewers Malt Grain 13.000 lb Yes No 80% 2.0 srm
Caramunich Malt Grain 16.000 oz Yes No 72% 56.0 srm
Wheat, Torrified Grain 16.000 oz Yes No 79% 2.0 srm
Aromatic Malt Grain 6.000 oz Yes No 78% 26.0 srm
Candi Sugar, Amber Sugar 16.000 oz No No 78% 75.0 srm
Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L Grain 8.000 oz Yes No 75% 10.0 srm

Hops
Name Alpha Amount Use Time Form IBU
Saaz (Czech Republic) 4.5% 1.500 oz Boil 60.000 min Pellet 16.1
Hersbrucker 3% 1.500 oz Boil 10.000 min Pellet 3.9
Hersbrucker 3% 1.500 oz Boil 45.000 min Pellet 9.9

Yeast
Name Type Form Amount Stage
WLP500 - Trappist Ale Yeast Ale Liquid 2.367 tbsp Primary

 

[Oophaga]

Did you mash high? 1.02 is quite higher than intended for this recipe.

Brewed this yesterday. Missed my Og came in at 1.083. Still this should turn out pretty good. Never had Chimay but everyone says it's really good.
Batch Size 5.500 gal Boil Size 6.394 gal
Boil Time 60.000 min Efficiency 75%
OG 1.086 FG 1.020
ABV 8.6% Bitterness 29.9 IBU (Tinseth)
Color 15.9 srm (Morey) Calories (per 12 oz.) 285

Name Type Amount Mashed Late Yield Color
Briess - 2 Row Brewers Malt Grain 13.000 lb Yes No 80% 2.0 srm
Caramunich Malt Grain 16.000 oz Yes No 72% 56.0 srm
Wheat, Torrified Grain 16.000 oz Yes No 79% 2.0 srm
Aromatic Malt Grain 6.000 oz Yes No 78% 26.0 srm
Candi Sugar, Amber Sugar 16.000 oz No No 78% 75.0 srm
Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L Grain 8.000 oz Yes No 75% 10.0 srm

Hops
Name Alpha Amount Use Time Form IBU
Saaz (Czech Republic) 4.5% 1.500 oz Boil 60.000 min Pellet 16.1
Hersbrucker 3% 1.500 oz Boil 10.000 min Pellet 3.9
Hersbrucker 3% 1.500 oz Boil 45.000 min Pellet 9.9

Yeast
Name Type Form Amount Stage
WLP500 - Trappist Ale Yeast Ale Liquid 2.367 tbsp Primary

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Brewed this yesterday. Missed my Og came in at 1.083. Still this should turn out pretty good. Never had Chimay but everyone says it's really good.
Batch Size 5.500 gal Boil Size 6.394 gal
Boil Time 60.000 min Efficiency 75%
OG 1.086 FG 1.020
ABV 8.6% Bitterness 29.9 IBU (Tinseth)
Color 15.9 srm (Morey) Calories (per 12 oz.) 285

Name Type Amount Mashed Late Yield Color
Briess - 2 Row Brewers Malt Grain 13.000 lb Yes No 80% 2.0 srm
Caramunich Malt Grain 16.000 oz Yes No 72% 56.0 srm
Wheat, Torrified Grain 16.000 oz Yes No 79% 2.0 srm
Aromatic Malt Grain 6.000 oz Yes No 78% 26.0 srm
Candi Sugar, Amber Sugar 16.000 oz No No 78% 75.0 srm
Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L Grain 8.000 oz Yes No 75% 10.0 srm

Hops
Name Alpha Amount Use Time Form IBU
Saaz (Czech Republic) 4.5% 1.500 oz Boil 60.000 min Pellet 16.1
Hersbrucker 3% 1.500 oz Boil 10.000 min Pellet 3.9
Hersbrucker 3% 1.500 oz Boil 45.000 min Pellet 9.9

Yeast
Name Type Form Amount Stage
WLP500 - Trappist Ale Yeast Ale Liquid 2.367 tbsp Primary

Definitely a Belgian style, (and delicious I'm sure), but maybe a little out of spec?

 

[shadows69]

No idea I was guess only because someone asked me to make it. My question is does it have to be bottled wait a quark or bottle as normal with the syrup instead of the priming sugar?

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

No idea I was guess only because someone asked me to make it. My question is does it have to be bottled wait a quark or bottle as normal with the syrup instead of the priming sugar?

Belgian ales tend to be an exercise in subtlety. For the Chimay grain bill only Pils + one darker malt is required, (Chimay's use of wheat starch is for head retention). Additional malts have been known to sideline a Belgian recipe.

Bottle priming is done after the completion of secondary/brightening and the gravity has reached 1.008 - 1.010. We use 30g of Simplicity Candi Syrup per gallon. If the OG was on mark then re-pitching should not be required.