Chimay Grande Réserve (Blue)

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Hello! I'm working this out so that I can brew during the summer in order to have it well aged by next winter. I figure this will be an 18-month in waiting Christmas present to myself and a few select friends for Christams 2015.

What do you think of using half D-45 and half D-90 in order to find some balance between SRM and flavor profile in comparison to the original? Maybe I'll try it and show the results.

How have the Champagne bottles held up? Is capping a Champagne bottle (29mm cap, correct?) a viable method of aging if these are kept in a cellar around 68 degrees F?

I truly appreciate all of the information you have given in this thread, CSI.
 
Chimay Brewery Tour: http://youtu.be/6_sVVOk0njU I'm curious about how u said that this beer needs to bottle condition for a minimum of 12months.. I saw this chimay video and they ferment for 4 days then bottle condition for 3weeks before being sent out for sale... why are home brewers aging for so long if the brewery doesn't?
 
Also saw this st bernarous video with them saying it takes 8weeks after fermentation has started before its ready to drink
 
Last edited by a moderator:
clintandhisbeer said:
Chimay Brewery Tour: http://youtu.be/6_sVVOk0njU I'm curious about how u said that this beer needs to bottle condition for a minimum of 12months.. I saw this chimay video and they ferment for 4 days then bottle condition for 3weeks before being sent out for sale... why are home brewers aging for so long if the brewery doesn't?
Click to expand...

We taste test every 2 weeks and you're right. It is ready to drink in about 6 weeks. In taste testing it over a 12 month period it gets better over time even well beyond 12 months.
 
CountryGravy said:
Hello! I'm working this out so that I can brew during the summer in order to have it well aged by next winter. I figure this will be an 18-month in waiting Christmas present to myself and a few select friends for Christams 2015.

What do you think of using half D-45 and half D-90 in order to find some balance between SRM and flavor profile in comparison to the original? Maybe I'll try it and show the results.

How have the Champagne bottles held up? Is capping a Champagne bottle (29mm cap, correct?) a viable method of aging if these are kept in a cellar around 68 degrees F?

I truly appreciate all of the information you have given in this thread, CSI.
Click to expand...

I think splitting the candi syrup styles like that would be delicious. Post a pic when you have one.
 
I love Chimay Blue. It's the beer that made me look for something different. I had to get away from the tasteless beer made by the big American breweries.
I made an attempt at a Chimay Blue recipe that I devised myself a little over 3 months ago. It was completely undrinkable at bottling, but it's pretty good now. I think I'll give this one a try.
 
CSI said:
We taste test every 2 weeks and you're right. It is ready to drink in about 6 weeks. In taste testing it over a 12 month period it gets better over time even well beyond 12 months.
Click to expand...

Right on brotha! I've never stored one away just picked up from the store and always drink it right away. Taste amazing off the shelf so if I brewed it I'd prob use the same time frame as it hits the stores to drink. I only keg so storing bottles wouldn't work for me... thanks!
 
so i brewed this yesterday, ( one d-90 and a d-45 to be added add high krausen) was slow to take off, so I raised the ambient to 70. As soon as I saw activity, i lowered it to 63 ambient, not fermet temp. Is it ok for ambient to be 60 to keep ferment range in upper 60's? ? I don't want to stall fermentation.

Also, for priming, the 34gr per gallon, is that bottling cold? I always bottle coldwith corn sugar and never have a problem with carbonation, I just want to make sure the 34 gr per gallon isn;t for a room temp beer. Northern brewer has a priming calculator that I use and it looks like this would match the ratio of inverted syrup at 39 degrees or so.
Thanks.
 
Beernewb said:
so i brewed this yesterday, ( one d-90 and a d-45 to be added add high krausen) was slow to take off, so I raised the ambient to 70. As soon as I saw activity, i lowered it to 63 ambient, not fermet temp. Is it ok for ambient to be 60 to keep ferment range in upper 60's? ? I don't want to stall fermentation.

Also, for priming, the 34gr per gallon, is that bottling cold? I always bottle coldwith corn sugar and never have a problem with carbonation, I just want to make sure the 34 gr per gallon isn;t for a room temp beer. Northern brewer has a priming calculator that I use and it looks like this would match the ratio of inverted syrup at 39 degrees or so.
Thanks.
Click to expand...

Ambient temps are tricky since they vary with the rise and fall cycles of the thermostat and even the shape of the fermenter (wide-flatter v. thin-tall). If possible keep the ambient as close to the target fermentation temp.
 
CSI said:
Ambient temps are tricky since they vary with the rise and fall cycles of the thermostat and even the shape of the fermenter (wide-flatter v. thin-tall). If possible keep the ambient as close to the target fermentation temp.
Click to expand...

ok thanks. For the simplicity syrup, you have 34gr per gallon, is that assuming the beer temp is cold? I've only used corn suga in the past and will ajust the amount based on the current temp of the beer, regardless of fermentatio temp. It has always worked for me. I don't want to under carb with simplicity at 34gr per gallon if the beer is at 40 degrees when i bottle.
 
Beernewb said:
ok thanks. For the simplicity syrup, you have 34gr per gallon, is that assuming the beer temp is cold? I've only used corn suga in the past and will ajust the amount based on the current temp of the beer, regardless of fermentatio temp. It has always worked for me. I don't want to under carb with simplicity at 34gr per gallon if the beer is at 40 degrees when i bottle.
Click to expand...

Given the high fermentability of candi syrup I think 34g/gal will be sufficient for a Chimay GR clone. Most trappist ales are bottle carbed at the high end of fermentation temps. The Chimay GR is ideally bottle-carbed at no less than 72F for 10 days to 3 weeks, then cellared at 60F until ready.
 
CSI said:
Chimay Grande Réserve (Blue), TRIAL 001

This initial recipe was drafted from BLAM and the Chimay Blue label declaration of ingredients, (water, malted barley, wheat, sugar, hops, yeast). Where ingredients like "caramel malt" were generalized in the literature we based the malt selection on color characteristics and region for roast and quantity *e.g. Belgian Caramunich contributes a distinct ruddy color and does not raise the SRM overly high (as would Special B). The selection of Belgian Candi Syrup and the quantity was also based on BLAM, (adjuncts did not exceed 5% in the Chimay Red). 1lb of D-45 equated to 6.4% of fermentables and brought the color up to a ruddy-brown, (however), after 6 months of fermentation the SRM was approximately 13-14. The recipe below will be lighter than the CGR. If you use 1lb of D-90 the SRM will be much closer to the CGR.

OG: 1.077
FG: 1.008
ABV: 9.00%
SRM: 13+ (from BLAM adj, but the actual Chimay pours closer to 16-17)
IBU: 31.4 (Tinseth)
VOL: 5.25 gal
BHE 75% (assumed)

FERMENTABLES
12.0 lb Belgian Pils
1.00 lb Dingeman's Cara 45
1.00 lb Torrified Wheat
1.00 lb D-45, (or 1.00 lb D-90 for Darker SRM) Candi Syrup, Inc.

HOPS (30.4 ibu)
Saaz 1.50 oz,60 min (Brewery visits indicate Nugget is the bittering hop now)
Hallertau 1.50 oz,20 min

YEAST
WLP 500 (Chimay) – 260 Billion Cells (pitched at high krausen, 22 hrs)

MASH
Sacch 148F 60 minutes
Mash out 170F 20 minutes


90 minute boil. Chill to 64F. O2 for 60 seconds. Ramp primary starting at 64F then raise to 68F over 6 days. Secondary at 60F until FG is reached, then crash at 38-40F until ale clarifies. Prime with Golden Candi Syrup at a rate of 30 grams/gallon (then hold bottles at 72F for 10 days for initial carbonation). Bottle condition at cellar temps for (a minimum) of 12 months.


This is a link to Chimay.com showing a video of the pour, color, and head:
http://www.chimay.com/en/chimay-bleue.html?IDC=287&IDD=130
Click to expand...
[/PHP]
Cheers,

AJ[/QUOTE]



I am brewing this recipe and am unfamilliar with hitting ibu numbers. This recipe uses 1.5oz saaz 4.5aa and 1.5oz hallertau 5.25aa for total IBU 31.4

I ordered the hops by name and the saaz is 3.0aa and the hallertau is 3.1aa
In order to hit the IBU numbers i have to use 2.0oz of each.
My question is will using the 2oz of each type of hops to hit 32.03 IBU have the same flavor as using hops with the higher alpha acid rating.
Not sure how alpha acids work. Do more hops of the same species of a lower alpha acid equal the same flavor of same species of higher alpha acid but lower quanity? Maybe im over thinking this and should just use the hops i have and enjoy. Thank you all for any help
 
thumpersk_a said:
I am brewing this recipe and am unfamilliar with hitting ibu numbers. This recipe uses 1.5oz saaz 4.5aa and 1.5oz hallertau 5.25aa for total IBU 31.4

I ordered the hops by name and the saaz is 3.0aa and the hallertau is 3.1aa
In order to hit the IBU numbers i have to use 2.0oz of each.
My question is will using the 2oz of each type of hops to hit 32.03 IBU have the same flavor as using hops with the higher alpha acid rating.
Not sure how alpha acids work. Do more hops of the same species of a lower alpha acid equal the same flavor of same species of higher alpha acid but lower quanity? Maybe im over thinking this and should just use the hops i have and enjoy. Thank you all for any help
Click to expand...

There are some great ibu calculators out there and some online as well. You can perform a percentile adjustment on each variety to hit the IBU numbers while balancing the hop varietals. For this ale it is preferable to use the Tinseth algorithm. Below is an online IBU calc that will help, (bottom of the page):

http://www.rooftopbrew.net/ibu.php
 
CSI said:
Given the high fermentability of candi syrup I think 34g/gal will be sufficient for a Chimay GR clone. Most trappist ales are bottle carbed at the high end of fermentation temps. The Chimay GR is ideally bottle-carbed at no less than 72F for 10 days to 3 weeks, then cellared at 60F until ready.
Click to expand...

so this beer went perfect...until i bottled. bottled cold, so i diluted the candi syrup and boiled it, added to bottling bucket just like i do with my sanitized corn sugar mixture...the samples of this beer were always amazing btw... bottled 20 or so belgian bottles with a cork and the rest, smaller bottles with a cap so I could sample some along the way. when i got to the bottom of the bucket i saw clear streaks...did the candi syrup thicken back up even after i diluted it in 2x the water, boiled and cooled? the bottom of the bucket was ridiculously sweet...like all the sugar settled there...after 9 days, i cracked one open. great carbonation, but ridiculously sweet!!! it was one of the last bottles i bottled, so now i wonder if the candi syrup all settled back to the bottom of the bucket (again, never had this issue with corn syrup). I bet i am screwed and going to have no carb'd beer, under carbed beer and ridiculously sweet bottle bombs in a few weeks....should have stuck to my original bottling method instead of following the recipe to a t right through bottling...sounds like the guy in the link below had the same issue, but he didm;t dilute, so i can see why that would happen adding undulate syrup to cold beer. f***************ck this was such an important beer....i want a do over...
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/why-i-wont-prime-w-candi-syrup-anymore-306188/
 
Beernewb said:
so this beer went perfect...until i bottled. bottled cold, so i diluted the candi syrup and boiled it, added to bottling bucket just like i do with my sanitized corn sugar mixture...the samples of this beer were always amazing btw... bottled 20 or so belgian bottles with a cork and the rest, smaller bottles with a cap so I could sample some along the way. when i got to the bottom of the bucket i saw clear streaks...did the candi syrup thicken back up even after i diluted it in 2x the water, boiled and cooled? the bottom of the bucket was ridiculously sweet...like all the sugar settled there...after 9 days, i cracked one open. great carbonation, but ridiculously sweet!!! it was one of the last bottles i bottled, so now i wonder if the candi syrup all settled back to the bottom of the bucket (again, never had this issue with corn syrup). I bet i am screwed and going to have no carb'd beer, under carbed beer and ridiculously sweet bottle bombs in a few weeks....should have stuck to my original bottling method instead of following the recipe to a t right through bottling...sounds like the guy in the link below had the same issue, but he didm;t dilute, so i can see why that would happen adding undulate syrup to cold beer. f***************ck this was such an important beer....i want a do over...
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/why-i-wont-prime-w-candi-syrup-anymore-306188/
Click to expand...

Solubility and temp are linked variables. Never prime below room temp (with any adjunct).
 
Beernewb said:
so i brewed this yesterday, ( one d-90 and a d-45 to be added add high krausen) was slow to take off, so I raised the ambient to 70. As soon as I saw activity, i lowered it to 63 ambient, not fermet temp. Is it ok for ambient to be 60 to keep ferment range in upper 60's? ? I don't want to stall fermentation.

Also, for priming, the 34gr per gallon, is that bottling cold? I always bottle coldwith corn sugar and never have a problem with carbonation, I just want to make sure the 34 gr per gallon isn;t for a room temp beer. Northern brewer has a priming calculator that I use and it looks like this would match the ratio of inverted syrup at 39 degrees or so.
Thanks.
Click to expand...

Never bottle-prime cold :)
 
CSI, love experimenting with your syrups and have had some great results with my Belgian brews trying all of them, so thanks.
I noticed on your site now for the the Blue recipe you have 2lbs of D-45, but didn't see much mention of how that turned out here. So can share the results of the current recipe posted and how it compares to the "trial 001" original recipe here with just 1lb of D-45.
Or has anyone else tried out using 2lbs of d-45 (or d-90) and in comparison to just using 1lb (still targeting the 1.077 OG)?

Thanks!
 
fatboy34 said:
CSI, love experimenting with your syrups and have had some great results with my Belgian brews trying all of them, so thanks.
I noticed on your site now for the the Blue recipe you have 2lbs of D-45, but didn't see much mention of how that turned out here. So can share the results of the current recipe posted and how it compares to the "trial 001" original recipe here with just 1lb of D-45.
Or has anyone else tried out using 2lbs of d-45 (or d-90) and in comparison to just using 1lb (still targeting the 1.077 OG)?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

For color and mouthfeel, 2lbs of D-45 is ideal.
 
Since I'll be brewing this in a months time I have a few points I'd like to have clarified.

The recipe/PDF on the CSI website lists Cara 8, yet 001/002 says Cara 45. Which ºL cara malt should I shop for?

It also mentions priming with Simplicity. Does this syrup impart any additional flavor or can I just use my regular preferred priming sugar without loosing anything in the overall result.
 
HK823 said:
Since I'll be brewing this in a months time I have a few points I'd like to have clarified.

The recipe/PDF on the CSI website lists Cara 8, yet 001/002 says Cara 45. Which ºL cara malt should I shop for?

It also mentions priming with Simplicity. Does this syrup impart any additional flavor or can I just use my regular preferred priming sugar without loosing anything in the overall result.
Click to expand...

Cara 8 is to be preferred. Cara 45 was the original trial here on HBT and was too much for this ale. Using dextrose to prime should have the same palate.
 
Sooo I brewed this Saturday night and completely messed it up by only reaching OG of 1.066.
First the malt had expired its best-use-by-date by 5 months, with my new malt mill I crushed too coarse (1.3mm vs 1mm), resulting in missing OG by 0.011, and didn't have any DME stocked to adjust it (I don't stock sugar either). Pitched yeast at 15C/59F, it sure is a slow starter. 2 days with no activity (aside from air sucked in), brought up the temperature by 0.5-1 and finally things started to happen and chugging along nicely now at 17C/63F. The recipe calls for cold crashing at 1.010 but I feel tempted to let it attenuate all it can due to my missed OG (may not drop to target SG, but fingers crossed).
 
HK823 said:
Sooo I brewed this Saturday night and completely messed it up by only reaching OG of 1.066.
First the malt had expired its best-use-by-date by 5 months, with my new malt mill I crushed too coarse (1.3mm vs 1mm), resulting in missing OG by 0.011, and didn't have any DME stocked to adjust it (I don't stock sugar either). Pitched yeast at 15C/59F, it sure is a slow starter. 2 days with no activity (aside from air sucked in), brought up the temperature by 0.5-1 and finally things started to happen and chugging along nicely now at 17C/63F. The recipe calls for cold crashing at 1.010 but I feel tempted to let it attenuate all it can due to my missed OG (may not drop to target SG, but fingers crossed).
Click to expand...

I'm no expert but I think you can boil a lb of sugar and add it at high krausen. It will effectively raise your OG by 3 or 4 points and also help dry the beer out to achieve your desired FG...
 
griffi said:
I'm no expert but I think you can boil a lb of sugar and add it at high krausen. It will effectively raise your OG by 3 or 4 points and also help dry the beer out to achieve your desired FG...
Click to expand...

Would that not raise your gravity by 9.4 points and overshoot your OG? That addition would alter the primary fermentation schedule, change the balance of the calculated pitch rate and change the ester profile. The net result would be a sweeter ale that veered off track from a CGR clone into another ale.
 
You might be right - as far as how many points it would add, I'd have to run it through beersmith. I just thought if he missed his OG by that much it might be worth a shot
 
griffi said:
You might be right - as far as how many points it would add, I'd have to run it through beersmith. I just thought if he missed his OG by that much it might be worth a shot
Click to expand...

Since the PPG of granular sucrose is 1.047, could you not just divide 47 (points) by 5 gallons to give you points raised? (9.4 points).
 
Well I'm interested to see how this turns out. Keep us updated [emoji110]🏻. I'll bet that what you get out of this will still be quite good. If not what you intended or set out to make originally. It will though without a doubt make beer. And beer is good.... And stuff.... [emoji482]
 
CSI said:
You may not need Beersmith for that calculation. The PPG of most granular sucrose is 1.047. Just divide 47 by 5 gallons and you'll have points raised, (9.4).
Click to expand...

Thanks, that makes sense. I looked back at a recipe I brewed where I missed OG by a wide margin and I used a half lb of sugar and beersmith raised the OG by about 4 or 5 pts. It was a tripel and it came out great but there was only a lb of candi sugar in it before that...
 
So 7 days had passed, I measured the gravity to 1.012 and had a sample. All the mishaps considered it unquestionably had that Belgian character of sweet banana aroma, balanced with reminiscent flavours of fresh bread and spices. Yet I sensed it was missing something. Could it be the elusive ABV that I missed (only by ~2%) and lacking perception of sweetness?

On a whim, not being entirely satisfied with the results, I decided to bottle one bottle, and pitch in a 1 lb bag of Simplicity I had lying around. Probably not the most appropriate use of Simplicity you could think of, but hey that's the kind of decision that you make when you've had a pint or two too many. Including the bottle that I bottled earlier. Idiot! (your's truly that is).

I'll report back the results of my 'unusual' brew in a week or two.
 
HK823 said:
So 7 days had passed, I measured the gravity to 1.012 and had a sample. All the mishaps considered it unquestionably had that Belgian character of sweet banana aroma, balanced with reminiscent flavours of fresh bread and spices. Yet I sensed it was missing something. Could it be the elusive ABV that I missed (only by ~2%) and lacking perception of sweetness?

On a whim, not being entirely satisfied with the results, I decided to bottle one bottle, and pitch in a 1 lb bag of Simplicity I had lying around. Probably not the most appropriate use of Simplicity you could think of, but hey that's the kind of decision that you make when you've had a pint or two too many. Including the bottle that I bottled earlier. Idiot! (your's truly that is).

I'll report back the results of my 'unusual' brew in a week or two.
Click to expand...

At an FG of 1.012 it just needs time. This ale should be bottle conditioned for a minimum of 6 months. The banana esters are the result of the Chimay strain being fermented just slightly too high but over time it will disappear.
 
I brewed this beautiful recipe 2 weeks ago, about to secondary. I have been debating whether to bottle or keg. Any experience on this recipe kegging? And if keg, what to do with the beet sugar? Ferment in secondary? thanks
 
Brewed this and bottled a month ago. plan on cellaring it now since it carbed up nicely. I did one of the earliest variations with d 90 and Cara 45. Smell is identical to original Chimay,however upon tasting, i noticed that it doesn't have as much complexity and has some kind of tart note to it. not in the aftertaste, but more as front taste. First thing you notice when you sip. Cant say if its acetaldeyde/green taste or some kind of yeast stress, but it didnt show any sings of infections during 35 day fermentation. Any ideas?
 

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