Cheap compact wort pump

[thekraken]

...I noticed immediately a plastic smell from the pump... Will it go away?

I dont know, I never noticed any plastic smell myself...

Well I've had a chance to run a few batches of boiling water through it again and the smell seems to have gone.

 

[val214]

I original bought the tan model and had a difficult time getting it to prime. I ended up getting a topsflo ts5. I only use it to move ice water through my chiller. I believe the power supply will also work with the smaller tan model.
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1489892867.932350.jpg
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1489892882.992406.jpg

 

[wbarber69]

I dont know, I never noticed any plastic smell myself... The pump is made from a very dense (and brittle/hard) pps plastic which is almost more like a bakelite material and appears to possibly have glass fiber in it.
Its designed to be stable and safe at boiling temps vs the other plastics like ABS plastic used on most pond pumps and non foodgrade pumps like the plastic topsflo and solar pond pumps many others like brau supply sells for brewing..
Some of those plastics are not safe at temps abouve 170 degrees (like the plastic a cooler liner is made from that sometimes warps due to this)
https://www.curbellplastics.com/Research-Solutions/Materials/PPS

http://www.cpchem.com/en-us/news/Pa...Chemical-Adds-New-Ryton®-PPS-Grades-for-.aspx (one of the manufacturers claims was these pumps were designed for coffe and tea makers)

I dont generally pump boiling liquids with my pumps myself besides the chiller pump which honestly only pumps boiling temps for a few minutes at a time...

Topsflo pumps use polysulfone not abs…

 

[augiedoggy]

Topsflo pumps use polysulfone not abs…

I think It depends on the model of pump.. topsflos foodgrade pumps are made of the same tan pps plastic http://www.topsflo.com/brushless-pump/ (they actually make a couple variants of the p38i pumps) I also have a topsflo style clone pump and emailed the manufacturer about it being foodgrade and they stated no due to the abs plastic construction and non sealed magnet..
the ts5 is a solar hot water heater and utility pump.. It was not designed, built or intended for food grade use.. It works and different companies order them with different propellers and magnets (Great brew used to have the magnets coated so they could be sold for food grade use but the coating starts flaking off after the first use so I believe they abandoned that.) I think this is also why the TD5 stainless sealed head pump came about.. its just at too high of a pricepoint to be popular.

 

[wbarber69]

The s5 can be bought in 2 options… polysulphone only, and polysulphone with stainless threads. the d5 is a completely stainless option. all have ceramic coated impellers. imposters may use abs but topsflo does not. I've spent countless emails going back and forth with some us sellers over the mds sheets they have on their products. ultimately I was the first person in the US to purchase a D5 model for use in brewing. now they're all over the place. stop spreading lies about topsflo pumps just because you like the tan model. just because you find a pump online and it's tan doesn't mean it's going to be food safe. just because you got one email from a seller stating they thought the pump was abs that doesn't make it true.

 

[augiedoggy]

The s5 can be bought in 2 options… polysulphone only, and polysulphone with stainless threads. the d5 is a completely stainless option. all have ceramic coated impellers. imposters may use abs but topsflo does not. I've spent countless emails going back and forth with some us sellers over the mds sheets they have on their products. ultimately I was the first person in the US to purchase a D5 model for use in brewing. now they're all over the place. stop spreading lies about topsflo pumps just because you like the tan model. just because you find a pump online and it's tan doesn't mean it's going to be food safe. just because you got one email from a seller stating they thought the pump was abs that doesn't make it true.

Hey man I'm not spreading anything.. there sold with different components and there's plenty if threads here with pictures as well as posts comparing the different versions.. you sound like the one who doesn't like what they are hearing.. maybe you need to go back and do a little research of your own. Us solar sells a version with a different impeller as well.
The stainless head version is a completely different pump with a sealed magnetically coupled impeller..

 

[wbarber69]

I own both versions of topsflo and the beige one y'all seem to love on here. im not putting down one over the other, I just can't stand it when you guys in here state blaring misinformation. you'd be hard pressed to find a topsflo pump in the US today without a coated impeller, since brewing has brought in nearly half of their sales. with solar bringing in half of that, btw the solar pumps are meant to move both water for cleaning and for drinking. I specifically went to great lengths to do my research before I ever put a pump into use. and I can assure you there isn't a solar pump on the market that is made out of abs unless it's a rip off of a real topsflo. and even when they were shipping them with un-coated impellers, it's not like they were unsafe to use anyway. The reason you see so many brew supply houses carry the topsflo pumps is because they are food safe. unless you are boiling your wort at 485f then you don't have anything to worry about...

 

[augiedoggy]

I think part of the problem here is there are like 4 different model topsflo pumps commonly being bought and used on this forum there one with the sealed magnetically coupled stainless head, a stainless headed TD5 and a TD5 and the TS5..

It wasnt the impellers I remember being coated it was the magnets, I remember this because theres a thread here with a bunch of pictures were the coating started flaking off in some guys wort o the first use.. at that time supposedly greatbrew supply in canada had the magnets specially coated just for the ones they sold.. I had no idea they changed the design without changing the model number, I dont own one. The last I heard about these was a while back when a member here posted comparison pictures of a topsflo he bought from US solor vs a topflo he bought on amazon and the impeller assemblies where a different color entirely.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=515918&highlight=topsflo&page=2

You dont find it odd that every chinese pump maker seems to only advertise the tan pps model pumps they make as for food grade use and they have actual encapsulated seal magnets but the other pumps are like the ts5 were only advertised as solor hot water utility pumps. even now when you compare the foodgrade line on topflos website only the tan ones are widely advertised as such in the brief description. I believe both the Td5 and Ts5 actually have circuitry to shut them down when recirculating boiling liquids for more than a minute or so to prevent overheating? They also use mppt power circuitry because they were designed to be run off solar panels.
looking at topsflos site now they clearly changed the specs on the pump at some point because they were NOT advertised for food grade use before. They seemsed to have changed and improved them likely BECAUSE of the feedback and shortcomings in the earlier designs ..
theres another good read on these pumps. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=317600&page=31

 

[wbarber69]

They also won't shut down just because of boiling wort. the temp at the motor has to exceed 185c if I remember correctly. at least the hastily translated documentation says so. the mppt control of the motor is an upside and a downside, if you are feeding off a power supply that's slightly underpowered, you'll get nearly the same quality output of a slightly larger ps. but it does mean you can't use any kind of speed controller with it. but in reality that's a bad practice anyway.

 

[augiedoggy]

They also won't shut down just because of boiling wort. the temp at the motor has to exceed 185c if I remember correctly. at least the hastily translated documentation says so. the mppt control of the motor is an upside and a downside, if you are feeding off a power supply that's slightly underpowered, you'll get nearly the same quality output of a slightly larger ps. but it does mean you can't use any kind of speed controller with it. but in reality that's a bad practice anyway.

Please enlighten me as to why the pwm speed controllers Ive been using for 4 years with no problems is bad practice on a brushless dc motor? Especially compared to manually creating more restriction on the pump with a ball valve which if anything actually creates more sideload on the the shaft bushing area on these type of pumps and wears them out faster..

The pumps shutting down is a very real downside the way I see it as well as all the people who complained of it in the last thread I linked.. the tan PPS pumps dont do this meaning I can use them to whirlpool if I wanted..
I actually stopped using the topsflo clone I had because of the same thermal safety shutdown which happened to me more than once.. I thought the pump was defective before researching why it was doing this. The mppt tech is nice if you only run it at full power but again its there because these pumps were designed to squeeze as much efficiency out of solar panels with varying voltages and not really for food grade use applications..

BTW Not to split hairs here but when you jumped all over me for the ABS plastic comment me you stated the topflo pump in question is made of polysulfone (PSU) but topsflo states its made of PPS? which is a completely different plastic unless I missed something here? What were you saying about blaring misinformation? I see the pot calling the kettle black here since it appears you been doing some assuming of your own.

 

[wbarber69]

So I mixed up my high temperature non-solvent plastics… my bad. either way they're totally safe for high temperatures. the "bad practice" of using a pwm or other speed controller I was talking about is that most of us will also put a valve on the outflow, so it's kind of pointless to have a speed controller when all you have to do is turn the valve to control the flow. not so much bad practice just pointless really, since 90 percent of the work you're doing with the pump can be done at full speed.

 

[thekraken]

Pretty sure the idea here is either or, not both. By your logic the output valve is pointless too...

 

[augiedoggy]

not to mention its a lot easier for me to get consistent flow rates when using a setting value vs manually playing with the ball valve... if I ever automate my system the pwm will have a dramatic advantage as well.


I never did explanation of why its "Bad practice" or is this just "misinformation" like you were complaining I was offering? to me using a ball valve to counteract the pump is just inefficient and generates unneeded wear and heat with the wasted energy. its like carrying around a trailer full of weights behind my car with my pedal to the floor instead of just giving it less gas with the accelerator pedal to slow it down.

Its not used very often for controlling the output of an AC pump because its not as easily and cost effectively done with AC vs DC but make no mistake thats how the "variable speed" works on a lot of power tools... they vary the voltage or duty cycle not run it at full blast and try to use a brake to control speed...

 

[wbarber69]

Pretty sure the idea here is either or, not both. By your logic the output valve is pointless too...

Unless you ever intend to stop the flow to say change a hose over or something…

 

[wbarber69]

If you were talking about an industrial sized pump, maybe. but the flow rate is so negligible here it makes no sense. you're talking about the difference between 1.5 and 4 gpm with you're speed controller. basically the difference between gravity feed and having the pump on…

 

[thekraken]

Unless you ever intend to stop the flow to say change a hose over or something…

Soooo... it's not pointless?

 

[wbarber69]

Soooo... it's not pointless?

I don't think you know what you're arguing with me about.

Anyway, I lost all my 12/24v pumps last year to a massive flood. im currently building out a temporary solution for my future brewery and I'm switching over to AC power for everything with pou relays. was looking at some pumps like this going forward, anyone else got any experience with these:

http://s.aliexpress.com/2qmeUZVf

 

[cbier60]

was looking at some pumps like this going forward, anyone else got any experience with these:

http://s.aliexpress.com/2qmeUZVf

I'd like to hear what people have to say about these; it looks like there are plenty of suppliers for the comparable pump. I have a Chugger I use for high flow rates and one of the tan cheapies which is nice for mash recirc at low rates.

Max Capacity: 16/19 L/min
Rated Capacity: 8/12 L/min
Max Head :2.7/3.4 Meter
Rated Head:1.5 Meter
110V US Plug and 230V Europe plug Both available
​

I'm assuming the 1st values listed are for 110V US. However, I'm not sure what the Max vs Rated Capacity difference is, 2:1 for (assumed) US. I'd expect a fixed flow rate. Finally, the rated flow rate the same low 2.1 G/m as the tan cheapies.

 

[thekraken]

I don't think you know what you're arguing with me about.

Indeed, it was a hasty response while I was standing in the lunch line...

But to the point you were trying to make there is a valve on the output of most vessels, these pumps are conducive to just being "loose" or part of the hose it self.

To you say you don't need flow control between 1.5 to 4 gpm just isn't true. I personally need flow control down to 1/4 gpm at times for RIMS recirculation.

 

[augiedoggy]

I'd like to hear what people have to say about these; it looks like there are plenty of suppliers for the comparable pump. I have a Chugger I use for high flow rates and one of the tan cheapies which is nice for mash recirc at low rates.

Max Capacity: 16/19 L/min
Rated Capacity: 8/12 L/min
Max Head :2.7/3.4 Meter
Rated Head:1.5 Meter
110V US Plug and 230V Europe plug Both available
​

I'm assuming the 1st values listed are for 110V US. However, I'm not sure what the Max vs Rated Capacity difference is, 2:1 for (assumed) US. I'd expect a fixed flow rate. Finally, the rated flow rate the same low 2.1 G/m as the tan cheapies.

the lower wattage 24v tan cheapies actually outflow some of them at 3.1-3.2 gallons per minute with a stronger head height value...

I do deal with those cheap ac pumps on the equipment I service and maintain... they wear out requiring replacement every couple years but they get a lot more use in plate processors for prepress than they would in a home brewery..some use the stainless head and some use plastic headed versions in both 240 and 120v.
I didnt bother with them because the flow rate is less than what I have and the pumps work well in my setup... I also dont want to be adding more ball valves to mess with either.. since I dont have to move hoses around they are not an ideal solution for me.

I recirculate my rims mash at 1.8 gpm myself but generally go a lot lower than that when sparging. I also have a single tier system so gravity flow doesnt work all that well for flow control. as it stands now I can write a script to automate the whole process if I just add the automated 3 way valves..

Another advantage to the tan pumps is they are waterproof making them flood proof as well

 

[Swab]

I got one of the beige pumps in the mail via eBay and it seems to be DOA.

I've contacted the seller but it's been less than successful. I don't think I have any recourse as it took me while to test the thing out.

Anyway, any tips on how I can get this thing running? I've tried a couple 12v 1amp plugs with no success.

 

[augiedoggy]

I got one of the beige pumps in the mail via eBay and it seems to be DOA.

I've contacted the seller but it's been less than successful. I don't think I have any recourse as it took me while to test the thing out.

Anyway, any tips on how I can get this thing running? I've tried a couple 12v 1amp plugs with no success.

What do you mean 12v plugs?
The pump comes with a plug to plug the pump into an electrical board jack. You have to cut that off and wire the red wire to the positive and black to negative... The 1 amp cheapy wall jack power supplies usually are rated higher than they can actually deliver. You really want a 2 amp or higher supply or the pump will struggle from the tests I've done.
You can always try touching the red to the red post on a car battery and the black to the black to test it.

 

[Swab]

What do you mean 12v plugs?
The pump comes with a plug to plug the pump into an electrical board jack. You have to cut that off and wire the red wire to the positive and black to negative... The 1 amp cheapy wall jack power supplies usually are rated higher than they can actually deliver. You really want a 2 amp or higher supply or the pump will struggle from the tests I've done.
You can always try touching the red to the red post on a car battery and the black to the black to test it.

Yep, I did that with a wall jack power supply from an old router (actually 2 to make sure). Perhaps it's just underpowered, I'll try to find a higher amp plug to hack up. What do people usually use?

 

[RocketBrewer]

I got one of the beige pumps in the mail via eBay and it seems to be DOA.

I've contacted the seller but it's been less than successful. I don't think I have any recourse as it took me while to test the thing out.

Anyway, any tips on how I can get this thing running? I've tried a couple 12v 1amp plugs with no success.

Are you certain you got a 12v version? Many sellers also sell 24v pumps that look exactly the same.

 

[Swab]

Are you certain you got a 12v version? Many sellers also sell 24v pumps that look exactly the same.

I ordered 12v, but perhaps they shipped a 24v. Other than hooking up a power supply, how can I tell?

 

[augiedoggy]

I ordered 12v, but perhaps they shipped a 24v. Other than hooking up a power supply, how can I tell?

by looking at them you really cant... unless theres a sloppy "24" written in marker on the side which there sometimes is... you can take two 12v batteries and with them in a series to make 24v to test them if you have that laying around... or buy a 24v 2 amp or bigger power supply and buy a 24v model pump if yours is actually doa... another thing to check is if the magnet/impeller assy is not stuck. you have to remove the 4 screws to pop the face off to check this. Theres pics buried in this thread showing it pulled apart.

ALSO you probably know this but if you have the polarity backward the pump wont do anything so you may want to try swapping the wires around to the pump... it wont burn it out. it just wont do anything if its backwards.

 

[Soulshine2]

Just got my little pump from China yesterday in the mail. Its a 12 v but comes with a power pack converter. Came with fittings and teflon tape too. I'll put it in the brew system once I get settled after the move. Its small. the whole thing is smaller than the size of my fist . Its a solar heat water pump designed to withstand a constant 212*F should be fine for 170* wort.

 

[augiedoggy]

Just got my little pump from China yesterday in the mail. Its a 12 v but comes with a power pack converter. Came with fittings and teflon tape too. I'll put it in the brew system once I get settled after the move. Its small. the whole thing is smaller than the size of my fist . Its a solar heat water pump designed to withstand a constant 212*F should be fine for 170* wort.

Which model is it?
If its the little tan one its not really a solar heat water pump. (those are designed for water tea and coffee fountains/makers).. The solar heat water pumps are usually 17v and have the mppt circuitry to allow them to run on 12-24v as well as overtemp protection in them and they dont have encapsulated magnets since they aren't truly designed for food grade use. either way if your not using it with pwm speed control it should work great as a wort pump, although im curious to know the model because the plastic topsflo and the clones wont work at 212 degrees for more than a couple minutes before the thermal safety protection built in shuts them off... I had a clone and thats why I stopped using it. (before contacting the manufacturer who told me its not food grade). Some of the clones are made of ABS which is almost always only foodsafe up to 170degrees.
The topsflo TS5 is not made of abs and according to the manufacturer its foodgrade now but it still shuts off when recirculating boiling wort which is fine unless you want to whirlpool or use it the sterilize your plate or counterflow chiller.

 

[Soulshine2]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01FXDUQR0/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[augiedoggy]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01FXDUQR0/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I have no experience with this one... I dont believe that pump has any mppt or overheat circuitry to worry about. it has a stainless shaft so depending on what the bushings are made of it might last a long time..(if they are rubber not so much as I have found with my aquarium pumps).
The service life is only 30,000 hrs compared to the tan ones which are advertised to last 20 years at 5 hours a day run time due to the ceramic shaft. if you open it up and pull the impeller shaft /magnet assy out for cleaning (which isnt needed really) you will see if the magnet is encapsulated or not..
It doesnt state what its made of that I can find but even if it is a plastic thats leeches into the wort at high temps it probably wont be enough to do any harm and you likely wont taste it.. I didnt when I used the abs plastic pump I had before switching to the PPS food grade ones for piece of mind (and because it kept shutting off at boiling temps)