Cheap compact wort pump

[PlexVector]

I linked those pumps a few times before hoping someone would try them... The 3.5a motor would simply be a more powerful motor as far as I can tell unless its actually the 36v version (they do make a 36v version according to the manufacturer) and the white box is a step up transformer/ boost as mentioned those take the additional amperage and convert it to higher voltage. someone with one would need to test the incoming voltage.

I upgraded my 3 12v pumps to the cheaper $18 24v ones and it was a worthwhile upgrade... close to a gallon more per minute.

I sent a message to the eBay seller asking how this pump managed 5.2 GPM. My question and the seller's response is below...

I've asked him for a picture of the inside of the white box. I'll post it here if they send one.

Boost converter to the higher voltage would be the logical answer. The next question is: Is it fixed voltage input or does it have the smarts built-in to accept PWM or variable input voltage to adjust RPM?

 

[scaesare]

Sorry, been a while since I had to deal with DC power. Boost converter, not transformer.



Yep, kinda what I was wondering about. But false advertising? Really? No! </smart@ss mode off>

Yeah... the 12VDC label is on the pump itself though. If that were just referring to the magic box input, they'd have to boost the pump to something like 48VDC... wonder how it would handle that...?

 

[jcoxen]

Yeah... the 12VDC label is on the pump itself though. If that were just referring to the magic box input, they'd have to boost the pump to something like 48VDC... wonder how it would handle that...?

Here's the response I got back from the eBay seller...

New message from: comelili Top Rated Seller(70,565PurpleShooting Star)
Thank you for your message.
I am sorry that it's very hard to open the power converter, that is what you called "white box" .
Actually the motor in the pump is 24V,but most users use 12V power source,so in this case,the manufacturer use this power converter to step up the 12V power source to 24V working voltage for the pump.That's the function of the white box.
If any question,please feel free to contact us.
Jolin

Of course, that doesn't answer PlexVector's question...

Is it fixed voltage input or does it have the smarts built-in to accept PWM or variable input voltage to adjust RPM?

...so I've submitted that question as well.

 

[augiedoggy]

guys, All someone would have to do is check the voltage with a voltage meter...
Like I mentioned before these pumps are made with 12v,24v and 36v motors according to the manufacturer when I was researching them a couple years ago... the manufacturer will also make custom configurations.

http://topsflo.en.alibaba.com/produ...e_juice_drinking_processing_machine_pump.html

These guys make them too although I cant find the exact configuration on their site now.

http://www.dgshenpeng.com/en_asp/product.asp?cid=51&sortpath=0,51,&page=1

 

[PlexVector]

Here's the response I got back from the eBay seller...



Of course, that doesn't answer PlexVector's question... ...so I've submitted that question as well.

guys, All someone would have to do is check the voltage with a voltage meter...
Like I mentioned before these pumps are made with 12v,24v and 36v motors according to the manufacturer when I was researching them a couple years ago... the manufacturer will also make custom configurations.

http://topsflo.en.alibaba.com/produ...e_juice_drinking_processing_machine_pump.html

Yep, I was overthinking it. Just cut loose the box and go with the native voltage of the pump, or get the pump you want without the box if that is cheaper.

 

[jcoxen]

Yep, I was overthinking it. Just cut loose the box and go with the native voltage of the pump, or get the pump you want without the box if that is cheaper.

Pretty much what the vendor said.

New message from: comelili Top Rated Seller(70,594PurpleShooting Star)
You can't connect a PWM or variable input voltage controller directly with the input of this pump to adjust the flow rate.
But if you want to adjust it, you can remove the white box and connect the pump directly with a 24V power supply.
Then you can connect a PWM or variable input voltage controller with the 24V power supply and adjust the voltage to get different flow rate.

Jolin

So at least we have a definitive answer.

 

[scaesare]

Here's the response I got back from the eBay seller...

Interesting. So I have the 24VDC version of that pump. It is spec'd @ 10L/min and draws 800mA. That's 19.2W

That pump apparently draws just about twice the power (42W, not including converter losses), and is spec'd to pump at twice the rate: 20L/min

I'm a tad surprised... I haven't seen any rated to draw that much current (~1.6A).

Given that it appears to be the same dimensions, if I can find the bare pump with that rating, I might swap it in to my box... my power supply and PWM controller already are rated for it. I'd just keep my existing one as a spare.

Thanks for asking the seller the questions.

 

[augiedoggy]

Interesting. So I have the 24VDC version of that pump. It is spec'd @ 10L/min and draws 800mA. That's 19.2W

That pump apparently draws just about twice the power (42W, not including converter losses), and is spec'd to pump at twice the rate: 20L/min

I'm a tad surprised... I haven't seen any rated to draw that much current (~1.6A).

Given that it appears to be the same dimensions, if I can find the bare pump with that rating, I might swap it in to my box... my power supply and PWM controller already are rated for it. I'd just keep my existing one as a spare.

Thanks for asking the seller the questions.

Heres what I experienced... I have 3 of the 24v pumps powered off a 5 (or 7 cant remember) amp power supply I have a flow meter in my system and with just pumping water they pump just over 3 galllons per minute (when running 1 pump off of the supply in my control panel.) when brewing 6 or 11 gallons and recirculating through the grainbed, bazooka tube and stainless braid inside of that, through my long rims and back up to the top of my MT I measure about 1.8gpm average...
So the motor in these pumps would have to be different than the standard 24v version to get 5.2gpm. This makes one wonder why they are only sold with the solar panel mppt booster box?

I will say though 800ma does not power the pumps well from my experience. I found that even with the cheap 2 amp powersupply I had originally I saw the the pumps struggle when attempting to run at the same time... Even one pump on the 2 amp supply seemed to struggle when first turning on. I wouldnt use anything less than 2 amps for the supply myself.

That said the 24v version is a lot better than the 12v ones I started with.

 

[scaesare]

Yeah, running a DC motor with a supply capped at the motor current rating is seldom a good idea. Startup current will exceed that nominal average.

I'm running my 24V pump from a 2.4A supply and it's happy enough.

 

[nealm]

Except when I'm cleaning my system I seldom run my 12v pump at full throttle so why convert to 24v? Just curious when they either break or die.

 

[scaesare]

Except when I'm cleaning my system I seldom run my 12v pump at full throttle so why convert to 24v? Just curious when they either break or die.

In my case I went with the 24V setup because I wanted the greater flow for transferring wort, mash water, etc... having twice the flow rate is helpful.

With the controller, I can crank it down to a lower rate when I want.

I actually max it out for cleaning, as the flow/pressure would more likely to help dislodge anything from the housing or lines...

 

[Wolfairious]

I also went with the 24v versions with PWM to control speed/flow.

 

[augiedoggy]

Except when I'm cleaning my system I seldom run my 12v pump at full throttle so why convert to 24v? Just curious when they either break or die.

The only one that ever broke out of the 7 I own is the one I dropped and cracked... The others all run fine and see a lot of use... From what Ive found the biggest issue is people use garbage wall wort or inadequate power supplys, The second most common issue is people try to pump grain or heavy hop trub through them... They are too small to do this reliably and the fact that the wort goes between the coated magnet and the motor coil makes this issue worse..

The 24v motor is stronger so it takes more to bog it down but if the 12v is plenty for you than great... The 12v worked ok for me too.. even worked very well with my old herms coil but I found it interesting that some said they werent powerful enough to pump through the coil.. To me that would be a good indication they were underpowering it. I went with 24v mainly for the reasons above and because my plate chiller is mounted low and my conicals were much higher and a distance away. Plus I felt with the rims the additional flow and strength would help.

I did experiment with two pumps in a series and did find that it increases the flow considerably. I did this a few times while cleaning things like my chiller... The thing is bacuase I prefilter so well for these pumps I found I get no buildup in my chiller at all.

 

[scaesare]

...people use garbage wall wort ...

I see what you did there...

 

[augiedoggy]

I see what you did there...

Not Sure what you think im doing there but not all of them are garbage And Im not saying if someone uses a wall wort supply they will surely have issues.
But.. most of the ones people use are the $5 cheapy ones that are rated higher than their true capabilities.. I run into theses on a lot of products... the kodi android tv boxes I ordered for friends for example... out of the 7 or 8 I have ordered I had 3 power supplies either arrive DOA or fail shortly after. one worked but the box would crash a lot... turns out it was just not providing enough stable power to do the job.

 

[milldoggy]

He was commenting on your use of the word wort vs wart.

 

[augiedoggy]

He was commenting on your use of the word wort vs wart.

gotcha...lol it was unintentional... Wasnt sure if he thought I was picking on someone.. Just wanted to clarify I wasnt.

 

[orangehero]

You can just barely hear the hum and I've found it useful to gauge priming and if it looses prime by the sound. Not that bad actually...but I agree totally with you.

What does the circuit look like? Could be a simple matter of swapping a resistor to increase the frequency.

 

[PlexVector]

@orangehero,
Interesting thought--I may take one of mine apart to see when I have time, but if it is a 555 timer type circuit it could be as easy as swapping out a resistor or cap or if it is microprocessor based the frequency is typically controlled by software.

 

[ajw85]

I had bought one of these beige pumps a while back and finally got to try it out yesterday.
Used it to vorlauf the mash in an igloo cooler and then pump from igloo cooler into kettle.
Also used it to pump from outlet of counterflow wort chiller into the top of a fastferment on a stand.

EDIT: I am talking about the 24V version of the beige pump

I also bought some cheap brass 1/2" BSP to 1/2" barbed adapters on eBay which are a requirement to do anything useful with this pump.

I am somewhat concerned using this at boiling temperatures so keeping uses below that for not.

I bought one of these for speed control

My power supply was a 18V laptop power brick and I bought a barrel jack to plug it in to.

It was a very janky set up but I will refine it for the next brew day.

Very satisfied.

 

[augiedoggy]

I bought one of these beige pumps a while back and finally got to try it out yesterday.
Used it to vorlauf the mash in an igloo cooler and then pump from igloo cooler into kettle.
Also used it to pump from outlet of counterflow wort chiller into the top of a fastferment on a stand.

I also bought some cheap brass 1/2" BSP to 1/2" barbed adapters on eBay which are a requirement to do anything useful with this pump.

I am somewhat concerned using this at boiling temperatures so keeping uses below that for not.

I bought one of these for speed control

My power supply was a 18V laptop power brick and I bought a barrel jack to plug it in to.

It was a very janky set up but I will refine it for the next brew day.

Very satisfied.

I use the exact same speed controllers but I used stainless camlock fittings from bargain fittings instead of messing with hose barbs. the pumps are pps plastic which is the same materiel the impellers on the chugger and march pumps are made of so I dont see cause for concern myself.
Also 18v can burn these pumps out from what Ive read... I believe the max voltage they can tolerate without damage was 17v... unless your using the 24v version and underpowering them in which case you may see the same issues as many others do after a short amount of use... If it were me I'd spend the $5 on the correct power supply for the pump buts thats your call.
I also used this controller too and it works ok as well.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/111826110737?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

 

[scaesare]

I bought one of these beige pumps a while back and finally got to try it out yesterday.
Used it to vorlauf the mash in an igloo cooler and then pump from igloo cooler into kettle.
Also used it to pump from outlet of counterflow wort chiller into the top of a fastferment on a stand.


Very satisfied.

Cool... so any initial particles when starting the vorlauf didn't cause issues, I take it.

Good to know.

 

[ajw85]

Just for clarification, yes I was talking about the 24V pump. Particles did not cause any trouble in vorlauf / recirc or wort transfer. I whirlpool my wort after flameout and then opened the valve to the counterflow chiller and it pumped wort and residual trub to the fermentor just fine.

 

[augiedoggy]

Just for clarification, yes I was talking about the 24V pump. Particles did not cause any trouble in vorlauf / recirc or wort transfer. I whirlpool my wort after flameout and then opened the valve to the counterflow chiller and it pumped wort and residual trub to the fermentor just fine.

Thats really good news that its working for you and I'm not trying to be a smart ass or rain on your parade but someone needs to mention it doesnt change the fact that there are many many people who tried to pump trub or grain husks with this family or pumps and didnt get as lucky as you've been... I just feel that people should maybe go back and read some of the comments mentioning that over and over from people in this thread and many other "cheap pump or Small dc pump" threads before they decide to chance it like you have and end up very frustrated when thier luck ends.
The pumps are very small and it doesnt take much to seize or damage them. they actually use the liquid as lubricant and coolant in the tight space between the magnet and motor coil and solids will end up there and cause wear or jamming of the pump. Its the #1 complaint about these pumps for a reason.

 

[Mojzis]

My first one jammed up once in a while. Ive my new one for a few months for mash recirculation and it hasn't jammed yet. I think it has to do with the condition of the stainless disc that goes around the impeller.

 

[JohnnyGunn]

I picked up a few of these pumps and they work awesome! But does anyone have a rough estimate of the PSI rating on these things?

I want to build a flow meter with a solenoid valve, but the ones I've found have a minimum operating pressure of 3 psi. Just wondering if our little pumps even have that?

Cheers!

 

[mattd2]

I picked up a few of these pumps and they work awesome! But does anyone have a rough estimate of the PSI rating on these things?

I want to build a flow meter with a solenoid valve, but the ones I've found have a minimum operating pressure of 3 psi. Just wondering if our little pumps even have that?

Cheers!

Typically the 12V ones have 3m max head = 4.2 psi
Problem is if you only need 3 psi to Crack open the valve, or sustained 3 psi because once water is flowing the pressure at the valve will drop.

 

[orangehero]

Is there a way to remove the impeller on the tan ones?

 

[Konadog]

Is there a way to remove the impeller on the tan ones?

Should be able to remove the 4 screws on the pump housing, once removed, you can pull the entire impeller, shaft, and magnet out for cleaning. I haven't done it yet because I use the pump to pump my cleaning fluid around when done. I also use it to pump water around before brewing.

 

[augiedoggy]

Should be able to remove the 4 screws on the pump housing, once removed, you can pull the entire impeller, shaft, and magnet out for cleaning. I haven't done it yet because I use the pump to pump my cleaning fluid around when done. I also use it to pump water around before brewing.

this is exactly what you do to take them apart