Cheap compact wort pump

[alien]

It can handle a bit of gunk. There is an internal impeller where tiny bits of grot can stick here and there but the usual cleaning routine is enough to deal with it.

 

[z28tt]

Since these are DC (direct current) and not AC (alternating current) a simple speed controller will work. You cannot do this with AC motors because it changes the wavelength of the power and it throws the timing off in the motor.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-Dc-Moto...797?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27cff09fc5

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-24V-36V...692?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item337a7582fc

If these are brushless DC motors, you may need more than changing the voltage to reduce the rotor speed. Anyone try it yet?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brushless_DC_electric_motor

Brushless DC electric motor (BLDC motors, BL motors) also known as electronically commutated motors (ECMs, EC motors) are synchronous motors which are powered by a DC electric source via an integrated inverter/switching power supply, which produces an AC electric signal to drive the motor (AC, alternating current, does not imply a sinusoidal waveform but rather a bi-directional current with no restriction on waveform); additional sensors and electronics control the inverter output amplitude and waveform (and therefore percent of DC bus usage/efficiency) and frequency (i.e. rotor speed).

 

[Monster Mash]

If these are brushless DC motors, you may need more than changing the voltage to reduce the rotor speed. Anyone try it yet?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brushless_DC_electric_motor

Brushless DC electric motor (BLDC motors, BL motors) also known as electronically commutated motors (ECMs, EC motors) are synchronous motors which are powered by a DC electric source via an integrated inverter/switching power supply, which produces an AC electric signal to drive the motor (AC, alternating current, does not imply a sinusoidal waveform but rather a bi-directional current with no restriction on waveform); additional sensors and electronics control the inverter output amplitude and waveform (and therefore percent of DC bus usage/efficiency) and frequency (i.e. rotor speed).

I noticed it said that but yet it only has two wires going to the motor, all of the brushless motors I use have 3 wires.

 

[tre9er]

Colonel, you're controlling flow with ball valve...does this seem to be a viable option or has anyone installed a dimmer or potentiometer? I'd consider these even if just for transfer as it takes forever to move liquid via gravity.

 

[alien]

These things must have their own internal brushless controller.

Here's the guts of one of the 12V solar pumps. My guess the controller is the stubby cylinder with the wires connected to it.

http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=29605&start=5

People are controlling these things by PWM instead of diverting the flow. Whether that's the right thing to do, I don't really know, but it is not what is recommended for the March pump which is brushless.

By the way, it is my understanding that the impeller and other plastic parts are polysulfone same as the March and Chugger pumps.

 

[tre9er]

I just wouldn't want to do anything that will drastically shorten the life of the pump, even if it is a $22 pump...we in a recession, yo

 

[movet22]

Question on the fittings: are the threads NPT? If not how do you attach them to NPT fittings? Or do you not?

 

[alien]

The pump I have from solarproject.co.uk has 1/2" male BSP threads. 1/2" NPT fittings screw on nicely, the thread pitch is compatible. The light brown colored eBay ones look identical. I don't know about the black eBay ones.

 

[DrHops]

I just bought one of the topsflo eBay pumps for $75 with free shipping. The threads are NPT 1/2 inch stainless steel. I'm still piecing it all together but I will be using a ball valve after the pump to control the flow. The valve costs $12, I'm not sure why I'd spend more or have to make something that will in effect do the same exact thing as a ball valve will. I'm somewhat handy, but sometimes simple is just better.

 

[alien]

This is a quote from an email from the solarprojects.co.uk rep:

Unless you need a higher flow rate then most brewers go for the 8 watt as it is the best value. So long as the PSU outputs DC and at least 750 milliamps then it will work well with the pump, allowing you to tweak the flow rate to suit. It is also fine to restrict the flow physically with a valve, you won't burn the pump out or strain it.

So you don't necesarily need a bypass valve to adjust the flow. Restricting the power (by PWM e.g. LED dimmer) or an inline valve will also work.

 

[ameliabrewery]

I just bought one of the topsflo eBay pumps for $75 with free shipping. The threads are NPT 1/2 inch stainless steel. I'm still piecing it all together but I will be using a ball valve after the pump to control the flow. The valve costs $12, I'm not sure why I'd spend more or have to make something that will in effect do the same exact thing as a ball valve will. I'm somewhat handy, but sometimes simple is just better.

Keep us informed on this pump, I am waiting on one of the China pumps for a small batch BIAB setup but would like to know how this pump works for you.

 

[tre9er]

This is a quote from an email from the solarprojects.co.uk rep:



So you don't necesarily need a bypass valve to adjust the flow. Restricting the power (by PWM e.g. LED dimmer) or an inline valve will also work.

Excellent info. For me it would be much easier to just restrict flow with the existing ball valves on all of my equipment.

Has anyone used a pump to empty the mash tun? I would love to speed up various parts of my brew day and emptying the tun via gravity takes a long time.

 

[ColonelPanic]

Colonel, you're controlling flow with ball valve...does this seem to be a viable option or has anyone installed a dimmer or potentiometer? I'd consider these even if just for transfer as it takes forever to move liquid via gravity.

Yes, the ball valve does a fine job of adjusting the flow. It does work the motor a bit harder when you restrict the flow, but so far I've had no problems.

 

[wilserbrewer]

I would love to speed up various parts of my brew day and emptying the tun via gravity takes a long time.

Surprised it takes that long to empty using gravity? How much drop do you have to the exit tubing? I am always one to speed things along but never had this issue. Does your tubing from the MT extend all the way down to the wort level in the cooler?

 

[tre9er]

Surprised it takes that long to empty using gravity? How much drop do you have to the exit tubing? I am always one to speed things along but never had this issue. Does your tubing from the MT extend all the way down to the wort level in the cooler?

3 tier setup, not too far down to bk, hose is all the way down in bottom of bk . Liquid seems to stay on top of grain bed and not find ideal path to bottom at times.

 

[HDIr0n]

Man the wait is killing me, it has been 3 weeks since I ordered it. They must have put it on a row boat coming from China.

On another note has anybody secured these to their brew stand or some other fixture? I am thinking about using U-bolts to secure them to my stand. Also I think I am going to put a 3 way valve on them to be able to run my Brutus 20 setup.

-G

 

[alien]

By the way, it is my understanding that the impeller and other plastic parts are polysulfone same as the March and Chugger pumps.

I just checked with Peter from solarprojects.co.uk and he said:

It is a plastic called Fortron as far as I know, which from a quick googling:- Polyphenylene Sulfide (i.e.; Techtron, Ryton, Fortron); seems to be another name for the same thing. It is fully food safe.

Well, I just looked up polysulfone and it is not identical to polyphenylene sulfide so my previous post was incorrect. But it is an equally suitable material.

According to the Wikipedia page, polyphenylene sulfide resists dyeing and is white to light tan in colour. So the black eBay pumps may be made of something else.

 

[DrHops]

Man the wait is killing me, it has been 3 weeks since I ordered it. They must have put it on a row boat coming from China.

On another note has anybody secured these to their brew stand or some other fixture? I am thinking about using U-bolts to secure them to my stand. Also I think I am going to put a 3 way valve on them to be able to run my Brutus 20 setup.

-G

I'm using a quick disconnect from Bobby M. to hook it directly to my brew kettle, then a ball valve hooked directly to the outlet side of the pump with another disconnect on that side. They are so small they really don't need any mounting as long as they are either at the same level or below the valve of the kettle.

 

[tre9er]

I'm not pump-literate, so does the ball valve need to be on the OP side to regulate flow or can it be on the IP, or does it matter?

 

[snaps10]

I'm not pump-literate, so does the ball valve need to be on the OP side to regulate flow or can it be on the IP, or does it matter?

Ball valve needs to be on the outlet sife

 

[wilserbrewer]

Ball valve needs to be on the outlet side

Yes for sure! That's why it's called a pump and not a suck...easy way to remember fwiw

 

[Soldevi]

Are you guys running these off a battery or DC wall wart? If you're using a wall wart what should the specs be?
What should my amp rating be on the adapter?

 

[DrHops]

I'm running mine off an adapter. I was told by the seller to get a 12 volt 2 amp adapter for optimum flow. I'm currently using a 9 volt 2 amp that works fine, but the flow just isn't enough. The $6 with free shipping 12 volt 2 amp adapter is on its way from China.

 

[alien]

Although this kind of pump is rated about 1 A for continuous use, on start up it might draw considerably more power. I would suggest using a power supply rated for at least 2 A or preferably 3 A.

People in the UK have reported using variable voltage tattoo gun power supplies rated at 2 A. Some had success, some didn't.

 

[cwi]

Because these are 12vdc it would be simple to use a voltage regulator to control the speed of the pump. Since they are not magnetic drive I probably wouldn't adjust the flow with a ball valve.

The mag drive isn't so much the reason they can be throttled as the centrifugal impeller part. The mag drive pumps aren't decoupling when they are throttled, the impeller are just thrashing the product. That said, controlling the speed is a much more elegant solution, and doesn't beat up your product (wort) as severely. This can be done using PWM controllers for the March/Chugger AC pumps as well these DC ones, or even a cheaper TRIAC based speed controller for the AC powered pumps.

Great idea! A simple inline potentiometer like the ones used on the diy stir plates might do the trick.

Except that the pot would need to dissipate much more power than a stir plate pot for a muffin fan.

Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) controls by changing duty cycle between full-on and full-off states. It s the best solution to control something like a heating element which is difficult to put into a controllable intermediary state.

Using PWM with a pump would mean having the pump start and stop for varying lengths of time (for example, on for one second and then off for 9 seconds out of a 10 second period).

If these motors have a flow rate proportional to voltage applied, that would be a better way to control them - this way you could have a variable and continuous flow rate rather than the repeated on-and-off interrupted flow you would get with PWM.

For anyone who has one of these pump, the easy way to check if they will support variable speed would be to put a potentiometer (variable resistor) in the circuit and check if the pump flow decreased as the potentiometer is dialed to higher resistance (less voltage to the pump). You could also just hook it up to a single 1.5V battery (or 2 1.5s in series to make 3V) and see if it pumps but at a lower flow rate...

-fafrd

PWM speed controllers pulse at much higher freqs than you are stating, and appear continuously variable. PWM also gives much more range of speed (low end) for pumps/fans than varying the voltage, and are the preferred speed control solution for these applications (for DC and single phase AC, at least). They are also easier on the motor.

Since these are DC (direct current) and not AC (alternating current) a simple speed controller will work. You cannot do this with AC motors because it changes the wavelength of the power and it throws the timing off in the motor.

The simple TRIAC based speed controllers (ceiling fan controllers) will work well with the AC pumps, but the speed range will be less than an AC PWM controller. WalterAtMarchPumps has a few posts on the topic.

People are controlling these things by PWM instead of diverting the flow. Whether that's the right thing to do, I don't really know, but it is not what is recommended for the March pump which is brushless.

PWM is the preferred choice, even for the March/Chugger pumps, though I am not sure if you are talking about a brushless DC March pump. I haven't looked into those, but I would be surprised if PWM wasn't the preferred choice for those as well.

RE: power supplies for DC. DC motors generally do not like to have amps limited. A supply with more current than needed will not cause any issues. Rule of thumb is to give DC motors all the current they want, and to control speed with voltage (or duration as in PWM). For AC the rule of thumb is to keep the voltage at the preferred level, and control speed with current (various limiting techniques).

 

[f0xtr0t]

I've picked up both pumps. I just also ordered camlocks that I need. I guess I'll do a comparison of the two when the black pump comes in.

I also just picked up this http://bit.ly/X6ILwB which is a power supply.

 

[snaps10]

I got the black pump in today. It's a little bigger than I was expecting. I'm still waiting on a rheostat I ordered for it, and I have no idea where the power supply I had set aside was. Thinking about it now I'll probably skip the rheostat and control with a ball valve. I need a couple more camlocks that I thought I already had, but once they come in I'll run it through the paces. Maybe I'll do an all grain starter run and just can the wort. I can say already, just from loosely screwing on a few pieces that the inlet and outlet threads seem different. I easily got 3-4 threads on the outlet, but maybe 1-1.5 on the inlet before meeting resistance. This could just be a production quality problem as well. It is a little bigger and stouter than I thought it'd be, although its still mini.

 

[fafrd]

I got the black pump in today. I can say already, just from loosely screwing on a few pieces that the inlet and outlet threads seem different. I easily got 3-4 threads on the outlet, but maybe 1-1.5 on the inlet before meeting resistance. This could just be a production quality problem as well.

snaps10, are the threads on the black pumps 1/2" NPT?

-fafrd

 

[snaps10]

I'm thinking bsp.

 

[alien]

My pump (the little brown one) is 1/2" BSP. 1/2" NPT and 1/2" BSP are more or less compatible. The thread pitch is the same as NPT but there is no taper. NPT and BSP female fittings both screw on and seal with PTFE tape without any problems. The NPT fittings screw on about 4 turns, the BSP fittings 1 or 2.