Cereal Mashing "RICE"

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WBC

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Cereal mashing rice

Has anyone done a rice cereal mash? I want to lighten up a summer lager and generally have done this before but would like to see if anyone else has any tips or info as to the way they do it.


In a blender grind up a cup of rice at a time to the consistency of cream of wheat.

Procedure:
Strike the main mash to obtain 122 F. Let mash rest.

Rice Cereal
STIR rice mixture the whole time!!! It will burn if not stirred.

In another pot heat rice and water to 158 F to gelatinize the starches. Cool and add 1 LB 6 row crushed grains at 155 F. stir stir stir 20 minutes. This will break down the starch chains and make the cereal loose. Heat to boiling and add to main mash to bring it up to 148 F. Stir well. Let this mash sit 60 to 90 minutes. Sparge to obtain preboil volume. TIP: Use an infusion calculator to figure the volume of boiling rice to add to hit 148 F. Cool the rest of the rice to 148 F and add it to the mash tun. Stir well.

Proceed as normal with your boil and hops.
 

shafferpilot

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Seems ok. Except for the part where you heat the two-row/rice mixture up to boiling. That's not a good idea. What I do with wheat, rice, flaked corn, corn flakes, etc. is boil some water on the stove in a thick walled pot, dump the stuff in and stir like mad. When it returns to a boil i shut off the burner and continue stirring for a minute or two to avoid scorching. Then I cover the pot and leave it alone for about an hour while I crush grains, sanitize equipment, etc. There's really no need to grind the rice up as it will turn to mush by itself if you give it enough time. Then I put some cold water in the mash tun, add the barley and the boiled mush. The cold water is to keep the MLT temp down around 120. I use 120 as a protien rest when I'm using these adjuncts. From there I use steam infusion to raise temps, so you're on your own after that.
 

knipknup

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Hmmm, seems like a hassle. I have not brewed with rice, and this is probably necessary when using actual rice grains as you mention.

I have brewed with corn and have done nothing more than throw it in the mash, no protein rest, just mash at 150F.

I have 3lb of flaked rice and was planning to just toss it in. Would this be a problem with flaked rice?
 
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WBC

WBC

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shafferpilot said:
Seems ok. Except for the part where you heat the two-row/rice mixture up to boiling. That's not a good idea.
Why, I have the starches broken down and partially converted don't I? I am using this boiling rice/grain mixture to raise the main mash to 148 F. This is no different than decoction mashing is it?

I grind up the rice to get as much starches as I can. You can get 30 points out of rice LB/gallon. There are all different kinds of rice too and some do have a nice complementery flavor.
 
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WBC

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knipknup said:
I have 3lb of flaked rice and was planning to just toss it in. Would this be a problem with flaked rice?
Not at all, you would get 30 points less efficiency losses per pound/gal used. The only reason I use the grain rice is cost and many different brands/tastes available.
 

Donasay

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knipknup said:
Hmmm, seems like a hassle. I have not brewed with rice, and this is probably necessary when using actual rice grains as you mention.

I have brewed with corn and have done nothing more than throw it in the mash, no protein rest, just mash at 150F.

I have 3lb of flaked rice and was planning to just toss it in. Would this be a problem with flaked rice?
Flaked and gelatinized rice are cool to just toss in the mash. I think they are talking about rice from out of the cabinet which you would use to eat or something like that. If you want to use that kind of rice you can get the uncle ben's minute rice and throw that in after cooking it. The raw rice requires some additional steps which they mentioned above.
 

Iordz

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The only rice I have used was wild rice (which, I believe, is not a real rice), anyway I just cooked the raw rice and added it to the mash. I actually got a higher effeciency than I had predicted, but more importantly I got a very interesting flavor from the rice.
 

shafferpilot

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Donasay said:
Flaked and gelatinized rice are cool to just toss in the mash. I think they are talking about rice from out of the cabinet which you would use to eat or something like that. If you want to use that kind of rice you can get the uncle ben's minute rice and throw that in after cooking it. The raw rice requires some additional steps which they mentioned above.
He's right. I'm a cheap a$$ so if I'm using alternative grains, i go for the cheapest available option. Flaked corn from the LHBS costs many times more than a box of generic corn flakes. Uncooked rice can be had for about $1.50 for 5lbs. Really, rice doesn't need to be ground up. I promise it will disolve completely during the cooking/mash process. My objection with the decoction style heating of the grain is that you are going for a very light beer (I'm assuming since you're using rice). Light beers don't cover up the small bit of husk astringency you create by boiling barley. Big malty dark beers, no problem. A Lighter summer lager? You're taking a risk at a funky flavor making it to the finished product.
 

MikeFlynn74

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ANCHORAGE!!
Use Minute Rice. Add directly to mash.Use Minute Rice. Add directly to mash.Use Minute Rice. Add directly to mash.Use Minute Rice. Add directly to mash.Use Minute Rice. Add directly to mash.Use Minute Rice. Add directly to mash.Use Minute Rice. Add directly to mash.Use Minute Rice. Add directly to mash.

like a bad commerical
 

javedian

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shafferpilot said:
He's right. I'm a cheap a$$ so if I'm using alternative grains, i go for the cheapest available option. Flaked corn from the LHBS costs many times more than a box of generic corn flakes. Uncooked rice can be had for about $1.50 for 5lbs. Really, rice doesn't need to be ground up. I promise it will disolve completely during the cooking/mash process. My objection with the decoction style heating of the grain is that you are going for a very light beer (I'm assuming since you're using rice). Light beers don't cover up the small bit of husk astringency you create by boiling barley. Big malty dark beers, no problem. A Lighter summer lager? You're taking a risk at a funky flavor making it to the finished product.
I used the cereal mash method for my wit using 3.5 lbs wheat flour and 1lb quick oats with a pound of pilsner malt and a pound of wheat malt in the cereal mash. The beer had no astrigincy at all, and final color about BMC Lite (very pale). I boiled for 5 min, then let sit 15 more.

I have used cereal mash also for my rye portion (30%) of my Belgian Strong Dark, mainly for a long glucan rest, and a protien rest - had no sparge issues. I plan to try the method on some other grains in future brews.
 

AZWyatt

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Donasay said:
Flaked and gelatinized rice are cool to just toss in the mash. I think they are talking about rice from out of the cabinet which you would use to eat or something like that. If you want to use that kind of rice you can get the uncle ben's minute rice and throw that in after cooking it. The raw rice requires some additional steps which they mentioned above.
So, considering minute rice is just rice that's been cooked and dried, couldn't you just cook some rice first in a separate container, then add it to the mash?
 

slimer

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What would the characteristics of Minute Rice be if I wanted to import that ingredient into Beersmith?
 

WortMonger

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I am wanting to know this as well. I have a lot of BMC drinkers that hate my stuff and I would like to brew them one beer. I can't guzzle anything that I brew without it getting to me. I like to pound commercial stuff in the heat of summer playing golf when I don't care about flavor just wetness, and then enjoy my stuff when I get home. I know, I know, yes I still drink BMC, but only during a round or when I have to other places. I have never been able to drink more than about 10 of mine and can kill a 30 pack of Coors light with a buddy's help. It tastes better than water, lol. Seriously though, I am interested in this subject to add to my arsenal.
 

WortMonger

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Well, Minute Rice is cracked free from its husk before it is cooked throughly and dried. Flaked rise on the other hand is gelatinized and dried by steam heated rollers squishing them into flakes. I don't know if it is fully cooked before or not???

BTW, I do know that "Par-boiled" rice is yellow because it is partially cooked in the husk for nutrients and then dried and separated from the husk. It is different from Minute Rice in that it isn't fully cooked. I only know about Par-boiled because that is what I have 50#'s of right now and did some research to see if I could use it for brewing :). The other stuff I am not so sure of, so I am only saying what I have heard.
 

MikeFlynn74

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"Par-boiled" rice is yellow because it is partially cooked in the husk for nutrients
That would affect the beer greatly

Right minute rice is partially cooked but the starches are there for 2 or 6row to help conver during a mash at least thats my take on it. Ive read several places add minute rice directly to the mash
 

WortMonger

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I guess that all rice, once cooked and gelatinized anyways, is going to have the same numbers. The only numbers being off from Beersmith's flaked rice settings would be from not gelatinizing your starches before conversion, right?

I know I have to cook my par-boiled before use and I have heard of, more than already commented, people using minute rice directly in their MT same as flaked, because of it being fully cooked before it was dried.
 

shafferpilot

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my numbers when using rice (instant and uncooked) all match efficiency-wise with my other brews, and I've always just used the 'flaked rice' in brewing software. I prefer to cook adjuncts before mashing, but most people's experience suggests it probably isn't necessary. My suggestion would be to ALWAYS do a starch conversion test to make sure the rice dissolved and converted fully before sparging.

As far as making BMC clones I have two suggestions: Lager yeast ONLY! No Ale yeast can hide in such a thin beer. and Use bittering hops ONLY! keep the IBU's under 15 or so and make only one hop addition. Even small amounts of hop flavor and aroma are out of place in this style.
 

WortMonger

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Yeah, I was planning a "baby malt liquor" basically for them. I will try to go low with 100% barley before I start using the rice in other beers. If I can get it light enough for their tastes and keep it a premium beer then all the better. I actually think Japanese type beers taste good on occasion. I might just make that style for them, because honestly I don't want to make a BMC. clone type of anything.

This is great info on the rice though. I kind of figured the numbers would be the same, but I had to ask to be sure.
 

WortMonger

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20% is as high as I am ever gonna go, but the only worry with using more is that there isn't enough enzymes present for conversion from your other grains. This being said, you could use as much as your enzymatic grains would allow. I don't know much more other than, 6-row would be a good call over 2-row as a base malt with higher adjuncts like rice and corn. I just want a little lighter body and 20% should get that.
 

mew

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MikeFlynn74 said:
same as rice-

virtually no color and almost no taste just alcohol really
Rice, like refined sugar, has the effect of increasing the perception of dryness. This is good in BMC, but also might work well in a Belgian or any huge beer that might run the risk of being to syrupy.
 

MikeFlynn74

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Rice, like refined sugar, has the effect of increasing the perception of dryness. This is good in BMC, but also might work well in a Belgian or any huge beer that might run the risk of being to syrupy
thats what I meant. couldnt you tell?
 
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