cells in WLP pure pitch

[Arbe0]

I need 235 billion cells of WLP5300. It comes in a new 70ml pack called PurePitch next generation and is more expensive than the old pack. So how many cell are in the new 70ml wlp purepitch packs of yeast.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

https://www.whitelabs.com/faq
How many cells does PurePitch® Next Generation contain?
PurePitch® Next Generation is made with a modular design to pitch at a rate of 7.5 million cells/mL, a commercially recommended pitching rate for standard ale ranges.

 

[danb35]

Yeah, they really suck at answering the question. But if that's supposed to be for a 20L batch, that would be 150B cells.

 

[day_trippr]

So the OG doesn't matter?

 

[DBhomebrew]

Follow the link. They're talking "standard ale" @ 5 gallons. They also specifically link further to the yeastman calculator.

 

[danb35]

So the OG doesn't matter?

Presumably "standard ale ranges" would include something about OG. But that's still a stupidly verbose and nonspecific answer to the question, when they could have very easily directly answered it. It's a simple question, and a suitable (i.e., direct) answer would be "Each PPNG contains approximately 150B cells at the time of manufacture." But they seem really committed to dancing around this question rather than answering it directly.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Pretty explicit...

PurePitch® (Organic available in WL Copenhagen) is made to contain 1.8 to 2.8 billion cells/mL in every package.

 

[DBhomebrew]

And if the range doesn't work for you...

For specific information on lots, you can look up the QC sheet: Click Here

All this by following Northern_Brewer's link.

 

[day_trippr]

Holy cow!
I favor a pitch rate of 1M cells/ml/°P to 11 gallons of 75 point wort - my typical IPA batch.
The White Labs yeast calculator says I need 5 of their Next Generation 70ml Pure Pitch packs.
Bought at Morebeer.com that's almost $100! Woof!

Definitely not tossing my 5 liter e-flask anytime soon...

Cheers!

 

[DBhomebrew]

I'm sure White the businessman would love for you to buy 5 packs. I bet White the brewer would recommend a starter. Fresh yeast is better than lots of not fresh yeast.

 

[day_trippr]

Man, just imagine receiving 5 thoroughly baked yeast packs and ending up with a piss-poor fermentation for all that $$$...

 

[DBhomebrew]

Out of curiosity, is there a commercial outfit that markets for your preferred pitch rate and volume in a single package?

 

[danb35]

Pretty explicit...

Not at all--as they tell it, PurePitch is something different from PurePitch Next Generation, so that answer doesn't apply. And even if it did, it requires knowledge of the package size in mL. Sure, none of the math is hard, but why can't they just give a clear answer to a simple question? That is, after all, supposed to be the point of a FAQ.

 

[day_trippr]

Out of curiosity, is there a commercial outfit that markets for your preferred pitch rate and volume in a single package?

If that was aimed at me...no company targets my specific needs. They get within an order of magnitude

Cheers!

 

[DBhomebrew]

Not at all--as they tell it, PurePitch is something different from PurePitch Next Generation, so that answer doesn't apply. And even if it did, it requires knowledge of the package size in mL. Sure, none of the math is hard, but why can't they just give a clear answer to a simple question? That is, after all, supposed to be the point of a FAQ.

Fair enough.

Marketed as a 7.5M/ml pitch in 19L.

19L = 19000ml
7.5*19000=142,500

142.5 billion cells

Someone correct my math, please.

ETA: Funnily enough, looks to be in the range of a "last" generation PurePitch.

 

[Malticulous]

The few purepitch packs I've used have far surpast my expactations for cell count and/or viability.

 

[danb35]

Marketed as a 7.5M/ml pitch in 19L.

The FAQ indicates elsewhere that it's in a 20L batch, which would make for 150B cells instead--close either way.

 

[DBhomebrew]

They say "5G/20L". Clearly not. 5G=18.92something liters.

 

[day_trippr]

Obviously they're using American Liters

Cheers!

 

[DuncB]

They say "5G/20L". Clearly not. 5G=18.92something liters.

Maybe we are meant to interpret 5G/20 L as five gallons per twenty litres.

Which would be a very generous pitch indeed and very diluting!

 

[IslandLizard]

PurePitch and PP Next Gen have an excellent record on keeping high cell viability over time, with only 3-6% decline per month when handled correctly.

Just as important as the mere cell count in the package, are age and temps during storage and transportation.
5 days in a hot truck or 1/2 a day in a mailbox in hot weather can create havoc on the viable cell count.

Since many of those factors are usually unknown, it's always best to make a starter a few days to a week before brewing/pitching. It at least proves yeast viability while vitality and cell count are increased.
I therefore always use this yeast pitch calculator for estimates:
http://www.brewunited.com/yeast_calculator.php
Given today's fairly high (and rising) pricing and shipping costs, it's also a good habit to overbuild the starters and ranch/save the extra slurry. That saved out slurry can then be used to make another (overbuild) starter, etc.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

OK I'll chime in on this. FWIW, I completely agree with @IslandLizard here in that WLP does have a solid reputation for packaging their stuff well. WHile I also wish their packaging could just say "100B cells" or whatever amount it is, they do give you the data that you need to determine the amount of cells on the date of packaging. All you need to do is go to yeastman.com, click on "QC" in upper right hand corner, and then enter your packages LOT number. Its easy peazy. I'll attach my current yeast package Next gen WLP001 here so you can actually compare what the yeastman data gives you to the package yourself. Essentially though this is 2.15B cells / ml so given that the next gen pure pitch is 70ml (up from previous 40ml), it is 150B cells, on the date of packaging. What I find frustruating though is that when I purchase this package in the store two week ago I saw the "best before date" of 12/22/2023 and thought, man its august, this must be fresh yeast because I'm over 4 months away from the best before date and IIRC WLP used to guarantee (loosely used term) their yeast for at least 5months. The problem: when you enter my LOT number into yeastman.com, the QC report shows the best before date of 10/23/2023! So the package and the QC report have "best before" dates that are to months apart. Come to find out my specific lot number was shown to be packaged on 5/26/2023. So the yeast was "older" than I expected when purchasing but now WLP is seemingly guaranteeing yeast viability for 7 months based on the package, but 5 months based on the QC report.

In summary - assume the new 70ml next gen pure pitches are ~150B cells at packaging, but I have no clue on how long they are seemingly trying to guarantee viable yeast for, 5months vs 7 months based on different best before dates.

Couldn't agree more with @IslandLizard though in that the travel conditions for liquid yeast are vastly underestimated.

 

[DuncB]

I agree with the travel uncertainty, especially when I have yeast from USA to New Zealand.
Build a starter and control your destiny.

That said I've propped up yeast or packets of unopened yeast from the back of the fridge well beyond their date.
It's tenacious stuff.
In fact given the current packaging why use a whole package when you could build 5ml up to a full pitch.

 

[VikeMan]

So the yeast was "older" than I expected when purchasing but now WLP is seemingly guaranteeing yeast viability for 7 months based on the package, but 5 months based on the QC report.

I wouldn't interpret any "Best By" date as any sort of guarantee of viabilty. Yeast cells are dying the day they are packaged, and they continue to die until there are no viable cells left. What's important is how many cells you start with, the rate they are dying, and the number of cells a particular batch needs. Nothing special happens on the "Best By" date, or the day before, or the day after. That date might be a "feel good" number, but it's almost meaningless.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

I wouldn't interpret any "Best By" date as any sort of guarantee of viabilty. Yeast cells are dying the day they are packaged, and they continue to die until there are no viable cells left. What's important is how many cells you start with, the rate they are dying, and the number of cells a particular batch needs. Nothing special happens on the "Best By" date, or the day before, or the day after. That date might be a "feel good" number, but it's almost meaningless.

I agree with you with my choice of words of guarantee not being optimal. I do like the fact that WLP has a ax report to show the actual date of manufacture which isn’t on the packaging. That lets us the consumer make choices about how viable the yeast may be by “x” date. I know the “best before” date appears a bit arbitrary but it seems that the “next gen” packaging is better in terms of affecting the rate at which the cells are dying (under ideal conditions). IIRC all the first gen pure pitch packing AND QC reports were always 5 months from manufacture to the best before date. Now with this package of next gen, my wlp001 QC report goes from may to October (5 months) but the actual packages goes to December (7 months). Either this is a mistake on WLP part OR they are now thinking that their packaging is good for 7 months. Will probably email wlp directly to get at this discrepancy. Cheers

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Next gen WLP001 here so you can actually compare what the yeastman data gives you to the package yourself. Essentially though this is 2.15B cells / ml so given that the next gen pure pitch is 70ml (up from previous 40ml), it is 150B cells, on the date of packaging.

Thanks for sharing your lot number so I could see a report. I am not sure why the report uses the text "MADE TO CONTAIN 2.15 BILLION CELLS/mL". It seems like it should just say what was measured, but for now I will just assume that the pack has 2.15 B/mL.

I have read reports that the new packs had 200B or 225B cells. I suspect that might be from people hearing a number like "2.15B cells per ml" and confusing that will "215B cells per pack".

I use a lot of dry yeast these days, but my preference for liquid yeast from major brands might be (based on prices at my local shop):

• Omega or Imperial pack for $14
• Wyeast pack for $10 with a starter
• White Labs for $15

Oddly, I have seen the White Labs packs listed from around $14 to $20. White Labs was my goto liquid yeast lab for years, so I would not have a huge issue with paying an extra ~$3 just to use a familiar strain (even if other labs offer the "same" strain).

 

[Bobby_M]

It's unfortunate that yeast labs are forced to play speakeasy with their product but it's easy to understand. Most of their customer base (including potential customers) just want to know what they need for a batch and how much it's going to cost.

Okay, we have this yeast for you and it's $10.

Ok cool, that's enough for 5 gallons?

Yes, well um, probably. Wait. What is your gravity, ferment temp, and how old is the package at your homebrew shop?

Nevermind, I'm going to use this other lab's yeast because they told me one pack is DEFINITELY good enough for 5 gallons.


People want it to be simple, when it cannot practically be simplified. Do you just cater to the desire and sell the damned product?

 

[cactusgarrett]

Mainly for the one-size-fits-all avoidance, but they are probably loose with the language so some litigious punk doesn't whip out a microscope, compare the results to the label "claim", and file a lawsuit because the pack doesn't actually contain the exact cell count that the label would state. See Subway's $5 Footlong debacle.

 

[Broothru]

PurePitch and PP Next Gen have an excellent record on keeping high cell viability over time, with only 3-6% decline per month when handled correctly.

Just as important as the mere cell count in the package, are age and temps during storage and transportation.
5 days in a hot truck or 1/2 a day in a mailbox in hot weather can create havoc on the viable cell count.

Since many of those factors are usually unknown, it's always best to make a starter a few days to a week before brewing/pitching. It at least proves yeast viability while vitality and cell count are increased.
I therefore always use this yeast pitch calculator for estimates:
http://www.brewunited.com/yeast_calculator.php
Given today's fairly high (and rising) pricing and shipping costs, it's also a good habit to overbuild the starters and ranch/save the extra slurry. That saved out slurry can then be used to make another (overbuild) starter, etc.

Absolutely. There ain’t no free lunch, as in thinking this new packaging will alleviate the (recommended) need for a starter, at least to spike the viability if not the cell count.

Shortcuts often lead to disappointing outcomes.

 

[jturman35]

Am i the only one freaking out over spending $20 for a pack of yeast? Kinda seems like White labs is saying screw homebrewers no? A real bummer because i Love WLP530 but due to the pricing i am looking at other options.