Cardboard/Wet Paper

[JeffoC6]

Yesterday I checked the FG of a brew that's been fermenting for 2 weeks. After FG is met, I need to dry hop for 1 week.

Today I checked the FG of a brew that's been fermenting almost 3 full weeks. I hit FG and am checking it again on Wednesday. If I hit again, I'm going to cold crash/bottle.

Both of the brews had that cardboard/wet paper finish to them. I've read on here that usually means oxidation. I can't imaging how that could have happened, as I'm OCD when it comes to preparation, following instructions, and waiting. I don't swirl, I don't splash, I don't shake. The only thing I'm guilty of is using my thermometer to stir my cooling wort (every now and then) while it's in the ice bath. Since I only do 1 gallon batches, it's not like it takes that long. Usually 15 minutes tops. Could the stirring lend to these off tastes?

Or...Is this just how young beer tastes? Obviously I'm going to cold crash and bottle, and then let it carb up for 3+ weeks, etc. But, will that cardboard/wet paper taste go away? Or once it's there, it's always there?

Confused and worried.

 

[Nanobru]

That flavor usually is associated with oxidation. If not hot side, it could be cold side from transferring from one container to another. To avoid this, you can purge your fermenters with CO2 if you have it, or make sure the end of your transfer hose is always in the bottom of the bucket/carboy/keg/bottle. It can also be from oxidized hops, if they are old or stored improperly. Lastly, it could be an infection. If you have access to a micro scope, you can verify (or rule out) by distinguishing yeast cells (translucent/round) from bacteria (dark,rods). Depending on what the off flavor is (may just be green beer, hard to say with out tasting it myself) there is a slight chance to remove/reduce it. If you have a keg, keg the beer and pump CO2 through a stone attached to the end of the "beer in" pick up tube/port, while releasing pressure through the release valve. Basically what your doing is off gassing the beer, stripping out all the flavor, good and bad. Id let it sit for a week or two, if it gets better.... great. If it gets worse, try to degas it.

 

[JeffoC6]

For the record, I don't use secondaries, I don't keg, and I don't use any wort chillers/equipment. My hops are all about 1 month old, and I keep them in airtight ziplock baggies in the freezer in an airtight tupperware container.

My carboys are 1 gallon glass jugs. I use a blowoff tube for 3 straight days (the other end in StarSan and water) and then when vigorous fermentation ceases, I replace with a sanitized airlock filled with vodka.

I don't have a microscope, or kegs, or pumps or anything. The fanciest piece of equipment I have is a autosiphon...So while I appreciate the feedback, there's not much I can do to solve this problem.

 

[KevinW]

It could be your malt/extract as well. I cannot imagine getting oxidized off tastes after just a few weeks (not that it cannot happen) especially since you are aware of the potential for it.

I am just thinking it could either be ingredients hops/malt/extract or maybe water!

Does your water have a "funky" flavor to it?

 

[JeffoC6]

It could be your malt/extract as well. I cannot imagine getting oxidized off tastes after just a few weeks (not that it cannot happen) especially since you are aware of the potential for it.

I am just thinking it could either be ingredients hops/malt/extract or maybe water!

Does your water have a "funky" flavor to it?

I use bottled spring water for every batch.
I'm an AG brewer and get my grains (milled) at the LHBS

 

[KevinW]

I use bottled spring water for every batch.
I'm an AG brewer and get my grains (milled) at the LHBS

Hmm, well I guess all you can do is let them condition in the bottle for a few weeks and see how they turn out! Cannot see where you could have an oxidization problem and the flavor you mentioned leads back to oxidization!

Sometimes time does heal some flaws/issues with beer!

Good luck

 

[JeffoC6]

Bummed out now. I think I know what it was...Please let me know if you guys agree.

There were 2 separate batches that, when I put my kettle in the ice bath, I started to sort of swirl around using the pot. Meaning, I was trying to "stir" the wort to cool it down faster by shaking the pot a bit, sort of slashing it around as it cooled. My goal was to try and transfer some of the wort around the edges of the pot to the middle, and from the middle to the edges, so everything cooled evenly.

Could this have been why I'm getting cardboard/paper tastes after 2-3 weeks of fermentation? If so, I won't do this again.

However, I have consistently used my thermometer to GENTLY stir the wort as it cools, making sure everything cools easily. This is ok, right?

Thanks all

 

[Nanobru]

That could definitively be it. Swirling around will help introduce oxygen. But it may be the extract of questionable quality/age, or hops (even if you properly store them, the homebrew store can screw it up).

 

[jonmohno]

Doubt it if you were gentle with it,its the sloshing and bubbles really. Some people even stirr it but i would leave it alone and stirr the icebath.Ive never experience the wet cardboard and i dont really know what oxidized taste like really,you shure your describing wet cardboard?
Uh ok lookes like you didnt even bottle yet forget the above and worry about it if its like that after it carbs and is actually ready to drink. I can tell hardly anything about my beer much before its bottled and ready to drink. Youll have a good beer it sounds like your overanalizing it have a beer,relax it will be good when its finished most likely.

 

[JeffoC6]

Bumping for any other suggestions/opinions. Thanks.

 

[harlond]

That could definitively be it. Swirling around will help introduce oxygen. But it may be the extract of questionable quality/age, or hops (even if you properly store them, the homebrew store can screw it up).

I'm a noob, but aren't you supposed to oxygenate the wort before pitching? Lots of threads on here about people splashing their wort around, using paint stirrers on a drill to cool and oxygenate it, using a stick blender with whisk attachment to do the same, using an aquarium pump and air stone to pump air into the wort. Probably I'm missing the point, but if people do all that to intentionally oxygenate their wort, I'm having a hard time understanding how pre-pitching swirling could be a problem.

And if it is, I'm sunk, because last night I used a stick blender with whisk and whipped my wort into a froth before pouring it through a sieve into the carboy. When I finished that, I remember thinking, "Now that's some oxygenated wort!" And it worked (or failed?), too, because it blew off the blow-off tube overnight. Anyway, I'm confused.

 

[jonmohno]

Stirring harshly or sloshing mixing your wort over 80 can have a negative effect,it needs to be properly or somewhat quickly cooled under 80,i cool to 70. Once cooled,I use a paint mixer for 5 min,but my strainer does a good job of aerating it some when dumping to the fermenter.

 

[kellanv]

When cooling in an ice bath I stir the wort almost constantly throughout the 15 minutes and have never noticed an oxidation problem. I suppose I'm not splashing it around but still I would think there would be signs of HSA was a huge deal at that scale.

 

[Revvy]

When cooling in an ice bath I stir the wort almost constantly throughout the 15 minutes and have never noticed an oxidation problem. I suppose I'm not splashing it around but still I would think there would be signs of HSA was a huge deal at that scale.

+1, He doesn't have HSA.....He Hijacked this thread and I went over all that crap with him....I believe he has green beer, and when it's finally all bottled and conditioned he won't even have cardboard tasting.

The "damage" due to oxydation is a long term storage issue....it wouldn't manifest this soon, hsa boogeyman or not.