Carbonation conficting concerns

[stephelton]

I've found time and time again that setting my carbonation levels to achieve the desired volume of CO2 for a given style of beer leads to WAY too much pressure pushing beer out of the taps on my kegerator.

For example, my most recent is a German Lager. Based on what I've experienced so far, and what is suggested for the style, 2.6 volumes seems like a good target. My kegerator is currently running at about 42 degrees F. According to various charts I've found online, I should tune my CO2 regulator to about 15 to achieve this. That much pressure, though, causes the beer to come out with such force that I get way too much foam, which is irritating both for obvious reasons and because that causes it to go flat.

My kegorator is a large full-size fridge (no freezer) which is just tall enough for me to have put a shelf in and have two levels of corny kegs. The tapped kegs are always on bottom and the taps are at about 5' off the ground, so there's 2-3 ft of height difference between the top of the keg and the taps. The tubing, though, varies between about 1.5 ft and about 4 ft. This is so that the door can swing fully open while all beers are tapped. My taps are the Perlick 525's.

Obviously, my pouring is a big variable. I've done a little research on this subject, and am confident that there may be room for improvement, but that this is probably not the root of any problem.

Any thoughts?

 

[JollyToper]

The tables tell you want psi to set it to to get the amount of Co2 you want dissolved in the beer. Serving pressure is usually best at about 5psi on my system. No matter how many vols of Co2 in the beer I serve it at 5psi. I also shut off the gas between servings/sessions.

So in your example, I would set it to 15psi for a few weeks or however long it takes. When you want to taste it, reset your regulator to 5 psi and let some pressure off the keg to reduce the head space down to 5 psi. You will hear it hiss a little as refills to 5psi. Serve. If it is not where you want it, jack it back up to 15 psi and repeat.

 

[stephelton]

Thanks for the reply. This had crossed my mind, I may give that a try. Is this what others do? I'm sure that your average pub isn't constantly adjusting the PSI on their kegs...

This raises an important question... If my beer has settled at 2.6 volumes and I lower the pressure I'm applying, the CO2 in the beer will slowly come out of solution. If I adjust from about 15 to 5 PSI, about how long will this take? That would be a real pain to be adjusting this on a daily basis, my kegs are really crammed in that fridge...

 

[JollyToper]

It's true that over time some of the Co2 comes out of solution, but I rarely have to jack the pressure back up to get it where I want it. So it is pretty slow.

I agree that would be a hassle to constantly adjust. I've got a chest freezer with picnic taps for a kegorator so it is no trouble to open it and make adjustments.

As a side note, I usually keep my freezer at 33*F so my serving and carbonation pressure are the same at about 2.2 vol. That may be what the pubs do, but I'm interested too if anyone knows from experience.

That would explain why beer is nearly universally served too cold. I keep mine as cold as I do because I live in Arizona where it takes no time at all to warm up and because I also lager in the same freezer.

 

[Ki-ri-n]

Sounds like you need longer lines or the "mixer" from cure-your-short-hose-troubles-100151/

Check out the links in the Kegging FAQ about line balancing https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/sticky-kegging-faqs-43347/.

I'd go with what the highest level of carbonation you'll need based on the temp you'll keep the keg-orator at. Then from there, balance your system, based on the physical dimensions of your setup, and adjust the length of line required to keep it balanced. You'll find that you will sacrifice the speed of the pour in order to maintain your desired CO2 level.

I had to make a spread sheet up with all of the variables when I built mine. It made it easier to understand what happens when you change a variable here and there.

 

[Zen_Brew]

The answer is to increase the length of your dispensing lines. There are various tables out there for beer line length calculators. Basically the beer line has a resistance to flow per foot and also an extra resistance for traveling to a physically higher level than the keg. As you increase the beer line length it naturally increases resistance in the line and slows the flow out of the tap.

I have not always found the calculators to get me exactly where I want to be so use them as a guide. It is better to start off with a couple more feet than the calculator suggests, and then just cut the line off in 6 inch increments until you get to a pour level you like. (beer line is inexpensive) I think the industry standard is about 1 gallon/minute flow rate. That equates to about 7.5 seconds to fill a pint glass. That is a guide and sometimes a bit slower works better.

 

[Bumbler]

+1 on increasing your beer line length.

It's amazing what an extra 2-4 FT of beer line will do for dispensing if you want to carb and serve at the same pressure.

http://www.brewersfriend.com/2009/07/18/getting-a-good-pour-kegged-beer-co2-line-length-and-pressure/

I usually carb and serve at the same pressure. Usually around 9 to 12 PSI.

 

[Yooper]

Thanks for the reply. This had crossed my mind, I may give that a try. Is this what others do?

Heck, no. I'm not adjusting pressures to pour a beer. That would make me crazy! I have four kegs in the kegerator, and I keep most of them at 12 psi which is correct for my system. I just have longer lines so I don't get a glass of foam.

 

[dustinp]

Sounds like you need longer lines or the "mixer" from cure-your-short-hose-troubles-100151/

I'm with Yopper, that's a lot of work adjusting pressure everytime you pull a pint!!! I can't say enough about the mixers!! Was very hesitant at first, but after reading through all the pages, I thought I would give them a shot. Well they worked very good, and they are a great tool to use instead of different lengths of hose for different beers!!!!!