Can't get SG down - what am I doing wrong?

[Yossarian]

Hi. I'm not really a wine maker. I've done my share of beer, but decided to try some port kits from the local store.

I'm on my second kit. The instructions say to proceed to stage 2 when the SG gets below 1.020. I can not get the SG below 1.05, nor could I with the first batch. The vendor says the recipe is correct and it should go down to 1.01 or 1.02.

I have tried adding yeast energizer. I have tried adding additional yeast. I have tried opening it up every day and stirring it. I have the fermentor sitting on a brewer's heating pad and wrapped in hoodie. A thermometer I tucked in beside it reads between 22C and 28C whenever I check.

Is there something that can kill my yeast or prevent it from fully eating the sugar? Any ideas what I could be doing wrong?

Thanks!

 

[Yooper]

First, are you using a hydrometer? You can't use a refractometer for this, so that is why I mentioned it.

 

[Yossarian]

First, are you using a hydrometer? You can't use a refractometer for this, so that is why I mentioned it.

Hi, yes. A hydrometer.

I even tested / calibrated it. Tap water reads 1.000 and a solution of 24g of sugar with 176g of water reads 1.048. So the hydrometer seems to be behaving.

 

[Yooper]

28C is very hot, but not hot enough to kill yeast.

Did you ever add hot water or something like that to kill the yeast?

What were the steps exactly in doing this kit?

 

[Yossarian]

28C is very hot, but not hot enough to kill yeast.

Did you ever add hot water or something like that to kill the yeast?

What were the steps exactly in doing this kit?

I have not added hot water. Does yeast sink? I wonder if it is possible that the temperature around the fermentor, where I am taking a reading, is ok, but maybe the temperature at the bottom surface is hot enough to kill yeast?

Step 1 for this kit is to slowly sprinkle some bentonite into hot water at the bottom of the sanitized fermentor, mixing it as you go. Then add the juice. Then add some oak. Then pitch the yeast.

As of the pitching of the yeast, SG was 1.128, which is exactly as specified in the recipe. It ferments down to 1.05 but no further.

 

[Yooper]

I have not added hot water. Does yeast sink? I wonder if it is possible that the temperature around the fermentor, where I am taking a reading, is ok, but maybe the temperature at the bottom surface is hot enough to kill yeast?

Step 1 for this kit is to slowly sprinkle some bentonite into hot water at the bottom of the sanitized fermentor, mixing it as you go. Then add the juice. Then add some oak. Then pitch the yeast.

As of the pitching of the yeast, SG was 1.128, which is exactly as specified in the recipe. It ferments down to 1.05 but no further.

I've never heard of a kit that started at 1.128. Of course that would stop at 1.050 or so, since by then it'd be 15% ABV already!

Something is wrong with the ingredients or the instructions, because the port kits I know have you start lower and then fortify at the end.

Which kit do you have?

 

[Yossarian]

I've never heard of a kit that started at 1.128. Of course that would stop at 1.050 or so, since by then it'd be 15% ABV already!

Something is wrong with the ingredients or the instructions, because the port kits I know have you start lower and then fortify at the end.

Which kit do you have?

It's called Winexpert Chocolate Raspberry Dessert Wine

http://www.winexpert.com/wine?brand[]=536&keywords=Chocolate%20Raspberry%20Dessert%20Wine&v=list&p=details

Interesting, in googling the exact name, I've found a few references to this kit stalling out early. I'm not the only one.

 

[pumpkinman2012]

The instructions are here: Click here
It appears that the starting SG is supposed to be between 1.119 – 1.124 and the final SG should be between 1.015 – 1.025.

You're not too far off, but do not add any more yeast energizer or yeast nutrients, the yeast is tired and it will not use it, it will be food for any spoilage organisms.

You have already done a few things that I would recommend for a stuck fermentation, You've stirred up the sediment, putting the yeast back into suspension, you have a heat mat on it, you added more yeast - normally I would have recommended that you add Uva Ferm 43 it is highly recommended for stuck fermentations.

If your SG doesn't move over the course of 3 days it is probably done, but to be honest, if it started out with an SG of 1.024 and your wine finishes at 1.050 it will have an ABV of 9.77%, a little low, but this is a dessert wine, it really isn't meant to be much more than 12% ABV.

I'd take a reading with your hydrometer for three days straight, if it doesn't change it's done, I'd continue to stir up the sediment\Lees, make sure that the temp of the wine is within the temperature range of the yeast used (which yeast came with the kit?)

I hope that this helps.

 

[Yooper]

My math came up with something totally different!

The OP said an OG of 1.128 (close to the 1.124 mentioned). But I come up with 10% at 1.050. (I must have had a couple of beers before the last bit of math).

Sorry about that- pumpkinman is correct.

 

[pumpkinman2012]

Yooper, it usually depends on which ABV calculator I use, I'd prefer the 10%!

 

[Yossarian]

The instructions are here: Click here
It appears that the starting SG is supposed to be between 1.119 – 1.124 and the final SG should be between 1.015 – 1.025.

You're not too far off, but do not add any more yeast energizer or yeast nutrients, the yeast is tired and it will not use it, it will be food for any spoilage organisms.

You have already done a few things that I would recommend for a stuck fermentation, You've stirred up the sediment, putting the yeast back into suspension, you have a heat mat on it, you added more yeast - normally I would have recommended that you add Uva Ferm 43 it is highly recommended for stuck fermentations.

If your SG doesn't move over the course of 3 days it is probably done, but to be honest, if it started out with an SG of 1.024 and your wine finishes at 1.050 it will have an ABV of 9.77%, a little low, but this is a dessert wine, it really isn't meant to be much more than 12% ABV.

I'd take a reading with your hydrometer for three days straight, if it doesn't change it's done, I'd continue to stir up the sediment\Lees, make sure that the temp of the wine is within the temperature range of the yeast used (which yeast came with the kit?)

I hope that this helps.

I tried something else last night before I read this. I removed the hoodie that I had around the fermentor to keep out light, and wrapped it in wrapping paper instead, and then I put a couple of double-folded towels between the heat pad and the bottom of the fermentor. I'm thinking it was getting hot enough maybe to kill the yeast.

Then I took a cup of the wine out of the fermentor, and mixed in a packet of EC-1118 on the recommendation of the vendor of the kit, and some yeast energizer. Let it sit for half an hour until I could see some little bubbles / action, and then mixed it vigorously back into the fermentor. Covered it all back up. Will check on the SG again tomorrow or Friday evening.

That kind of leads me to another question, how dark does the environment have to be? I usually keep my fermentor wrapped in a hoodie or towels to keep out light, as it sits on my kitchen counter. Is this actually necessary though?

 

[Bent-Brewer]

Can't comment on the light, since I use a stainless fermentor. As for the gravity... You're more lucky than I've been- mine stopped at 1.010, but the kit is notorious for getting stuck after adding the sugar pack (chaptalization). I'll give the 1118 a try since I haven't added the fpack yet.

 

[Yossarian]

Well, 4 days and it still hasn't budged from 1.05, so I moved on and started the chapitalisation. Now it's at 1.06. I'm curious to see if it eats the added sugar and goes down to 1.05 or if it sticks at 1.06.

 

[Bent-Brewer]

Any updates on your SG? I totally mis-read your post as 1.005- it sounds like you have a stuck partial fermentation. Did you rehydrate your yeast before pitching? It shouldn't have enough alcohol to overly stress the yeast pitched dry, but it would still be a good idea just for the sake of rebuilding the cell walls before tossing it in alcohol.

I wasn't so lucky, and I refuse to believe it was the yeast, since I had a great starter using a blend of Cuvee and EC-1118 bubbling happily along. Pitched it, went to work, and got home to find it all settled out at the bottom of the carboy with no change to the SG. I'll give mine another couple days in a warmer room before adding brandy and a small (much smaller than I'd like) portion of the f-pack.

 

[Yossarian]

Any updates on your SG? I totally mis-read your post as 1.005- it sounds like you have a stuck partial fermentation. Did you rehydrate your yeast before pitching? It shouldn't have enough alcohol to overly stress the yeast pitched dry, but it would still be a good idea just for the sake of rebuilding the cell walls before tossing it in alcohol.

I wasn't so lucky, and I refuse to believe it was the yeast, since I had a great starter using a blend of Cuvee and EC-1118 bubbling happily along. Pitched it, went to work, and got home to find it all settled out at the bottom of the carboy with no change to the SG. I'll give mine another couple days in a warmer room before adding brandy and a small (much smaller than I'd like) portion of the f-pack.

I checked it again tonight, still stuck at 1.06 (since the sugar added for chapitalisation upped the SG). I sighed. Then I totally randomly found another packet of EC-1118 I had in the cupboard for maybe 3 years, from when I meant to make root beer. I put it in 200ml of warm water, stirred it up, and gave it 20 minutes. Then added it to the fermentor. This makes yeast packet #5, if you're counting. BUT... I just came home and poked my nose inside the fermentor and saw bubbles. This might be the one that got it restarted!!! Fingers are crossed.

 

[Bent-Brewer]

Good luck! I'm headed house hunting tomorrow, and it just so happens that I'll be 10 minutes from a brew store... I may grab some energizer and several packets of 1118. I figure if my beer yeast plus starter is typically around $8, then it's totally acceptable for me to rehydrate/pitch $8 worth of wine yeast to try and dry this sucker out.

If that doesn't work, I'll call it a loss. Stabilize, back sweeten to 1.030, and add a bottle of E&J VSOP.

Try not to add too much nutrient, by the way. It'll throw off the taste in the end. Same for oxidation. If only I had known fermentation would stop way early, I wouldn't have bothered with adding the sugar and gone straight to the fpack instead. Could always add sugar to sweeten it up more at the end, that way I'd at least get the full fpack worth.

 

[Yossarian]

It's come back down from 1.06 to 1.056, not much change. This is going to be more like syrup than booze

 

[Yossarian]

Update:

After weeks of attempting to restart that batch, it started getting scummy looking stuff growing on it, so I abandoned it.

I started my 3rd (and final) kit, and just started the chapitalisation stage. I did things differently this time. Even though the instructions say to clamp down the lid and use the airlock right off the bat, instead I left the lid loose, and did not add the airlock. I draped a clean dish towel over the airlock hole so nothing will fall into it. Once a day I sanitised a spoon and stirred the juice fairly vigorously to get O2 into it for the yeast to breathe with.

The result: day 7 and my SG was down to 1.018 and I was able to move comfortably to the next stage.

Instructions be damned, things are looking up for this batch!

 

[Yossarian]

Further update. Chapitalisation pushed the SG up to 1.028, and I just racked to secondary with an SG of 1.010. Looks like it's going to be textbook this time around.