Morebeer's new bottom drain brew kettles

[cfrazier77]

I saw today that more beer has new bottom drain kettles on legs like Spike has. These look interesting, especially a jacketed boil kettle. I wonder how they will turn out.

https://www.morebeer.com/products/brewbuilt-bottom-drain-kettle-hlt-10-gallon-1.html

 

[Bobby_M]

I'll be doing some evaluating on them soon.

 

[Deadalus]

First time I have seen a cooling jacket on a BK. Is that common commercially?

The wattage seems weak. Last time I replaced my element on my keggle, I was interested in a slingblade. What I saw offered then I also thought was weak. I think perhaps it's the design. My element is 5500W and the majority of the time I brew 6 gallon batches. It's a fast ramp up!

SlingBlade Specs

• 240 Volt
• L6-30 plug
• 20 Amp breaker required for 10 & 15 gal element
• 30 Amp breaker required for 20 & 30 gal element
  • 50-gallon kettle requires 2 x 30 amp circuits
  • Includes 2 x 5750 Watt elements
• Wattage:
  • 10 gal - 3750 Watts
  • 15 gal - 4500 Watts
  • 20 gal - 5000 Watts
  • 30 gal - 5750 Watts

 

[Deadalus]

Also, what would cool this? There's a rule of thumb not you use your glycol chiller above 100-110. Wort is going to be boiling.

 

[Indian_villager]

Also, what would cool this? There's a rule of thumb not you use your glycol chiller above 100-110. Wort is going to be boiling.

Agreed. I think the cooling jacket is a bit of a jank addition. On a BK at this scale even insulation in that jacket is jank.

 

[Bobby_M]

The wattage seems weak. Last time I replaced my element on my keggle, I was interested in a slingblade.

The slingblade elements have been setup like that for years and it tracks with what Blichmann does with the boil coils. Sure, more power is more better. When I build systems with slingblades, I cheat a bit and cram the next size up into the pots, e.g. the 5000 goes into the 15 with a little radius manipulation and the 5750 goes in the 20s.

The main reason it's not a deal breaker is that heating 13 gallons of strike water on 4500w to 160F takes 38 minutes and on 5500 it's 31 minutes. 7 minute difference. About the same amount when ramping to a boil. If you're running this as a 3 vessel system, 7 minutes of heat time is the least of your brew day worries.

 

[Bobby_M]

Also, what would cool this? There's a rule of thumb not you use your glycol chiller above 100-110. Wort is going to be boiling.

The jacket isn't for glycol, it's for tap water. Whether it's effective or not remains to be seen. BrewHa's BIAC system chills the same way. I believe the premise is that it's good enough to get wort to 100F where you can move it to your CF for glycol to take over (much more effectively).

 

[Bassman2003]

I like the product innovation. I would like to see if there are any strategies for getting clear wort out the kettle using the bottom drain. Like a 1/2" protrusion pipe extension that would suck in above the trub level and could be removed when you want to fully drain everything.

 

[Bobby_M]

I like the product innovation. I would like to see if there are any strategies for getting clear wort out the kettle using the bottom drain. Like a 1/2" protrusion pipe extension that would suck in above the trub level and could be removed when you want to fully drain everything.

If it's going into a conical anyway, the wort can be dirty and dumped after reaching pitching temps.

 

[Deadalus]

The slingblade elements have been setup like that for years and it tracks with what Blichmann does with the boil coils. Sure, more power is more better. When I build systems with slingblades, I cheat a bit and cram the next size up into the pots, e.g. the 5000 goes into the 15 with a little radius manipulation and the 5750 goes in the 20s.

The main reason it's not a deal breaker is that heating 13 gallons of strike water on 4500w to 160F takes 38 minutes and on 5500 it's 31 minutes. 7 minute difference. About the same amount when ramping to a boil. If you're running this as a 3 vessel system, 7 minutes of heat time is the least of your brew day worries.

2x7=14 minutes. I'll take that repeating time over the course of the product life back. A little hotter than 160 for some mash temps and another 40+ degrees for a boil. With times dependent on specific batch sizes and equipment. Probably 80-90% of the time I am brewing 6 gallons. But 15 minutes is worth having. I do multitask, so perhaps not lost but I don't want the hobby to be work.

Between the 4500 and their 5750 however, the length difference is only 2.75 inches. But for electric, installing a 240V 20 amp line vs a 30 isn't really different in cost, it's mostly the labor cost there, with the labor not being particularly different for either. And the material used for the element is bendable and probably the same across sizes, just longer. They could arc the slingblade a little further but vary the curve for a few pot sizes, instead of dropping the wattage as the intended pot size drops. Right now, the prices listed goes up $10 a size class. Which is somewhat artificial. I get it costs some to differentiate, but does the wattage really need to change too? I wasn't going to drop my wattage to move my element from the middle to the side and pay more! And perhaps the boilcoil can't increase wattage since it's a circle (go wavy?), but they charge even more and hook up with their own special plug so you need the cord too!

Reading the OP, I originally thought it might be steam, and following the link the jacket made me think glycol since it looks similar to a jacketed conical. Water makes sense though. You wouldn't have to deal with cleaning the chiller and some would find that useful. It would save me almost 0 time as I CIP my CFC, which is necessary for my HERMS coil anyway. Probably does need a whirlpool going, so a pump would help a lot. Then how fast does it chill and how that might fit into a specific brew rig and protocols will vary. I do think it could be desirable vs an IC or a PC as far as cleaning and against a CFC, no worries about what you can't see inside the tubing.

Yes indeed, dropping from 100 is quick with a glycol chiller. I drop down to about around 100F with my perpetual chiller and transfer. Before I was cleaning up this past weekend, the wort was already at pitching temp (68F). And the week before, the same and it was 10 gallons and steam beer temp (60F). For me, I didn't use any water to chill. I was at about 105F with the pepertual chiller, which could be improved slightl, but by the time I switched hoses and transferred it was under 100. I'd say from fermenter mass absorbing heat.

 

[Bassman2003]

If it's going into a conical anyway, the wort can be dirty and dumped after reaching pitching temps.

I guess if you get the bling with your boil kettle, it stands to reason you would own a high dollar conical as well!

 

[Bobby_M]

I guess if you get the bling with your boil kettle, it stands to reason you would own a high dollar conical as well!

I think as a brand, they think in ecosystems. They figure you'll go all bottom drain on the hot side and then the X3 conicals on the cold side.

 

[wickedbeernut]

I like the product innovation. I would like to see if there are any strategies for getting clear wort out the kettle using the bottom drain. Like a 1/2" protrusion pipe extension that would suck in above the trub level and could be removed when you want to fully drain everything.

I'm not sure how much innovation there is. BrewBuilt reverse-engineered the Spike Brewing "Tank" kettles (domed bottom, splayed legs, mashtun door, ...) in much the same way BrewBuilt reverse-engineered the Brewtools F-series unitanks with the BrewBuilt X3-series. The BrewBuilt boil kettle jacket is certainly novel. Looking forward to @Bobby_M's evaluation.

I can't believe you transfer wort from the BrewBuilt boil kettle to the fermenter via the bottom drain. I assume a pickup tube is inserted through the tri-clamp port on the side of the boil kettle near the bottom. This is how the Spike boil kettle works.

 

[Bobby_M]

I can't believe you transfer wort from the BrewBuilt boil kettle to the fermenter via the bottom drain. I assume a pickup tube is inserted through the tri-clamp port on the side of the boil kettle near the bottom. This is how the Spike boil kettle works.

No, it looks like it has a rotating pickup arm on the front wall. If you mistakenly were to look at the HLT you don't find the same port there but that's just water so no problem using the bottom for that.

 

[wickedbeernut]

No, it looks like it has a rotating pickup arm on the front wall. If you mistakenly were to look at the HLT you don't find the same port there but that's just water so no problem using the bottom for that.

And a similar situation with the mash tun. Recirculating during the mash ensures minimal grain in the domed bottom. The bottom drain can be used during the sparge to transfer the wort to the boil kettle.

The domed bottoms and bottom drains, along with the mash tun door and CIP balls, really shine when it comes to cleaning.

The bottom drains of my Spike Trio Tank kettles are plumbed to 1.5” tri-clamp wall drains. I’m in the process of plumbing my BrewBuilt X3 unitank bottom drains to 1.5” tri-clamp wall drains via the 1.5” tri-clamp double-sided bulkheads you just shipped me.

 

[Bassman2003]

This is why I mentioned if they had a little insert that would raise the exit pipe level up a bit to leave any sediment behind. But that applies more to the use as a boil kettle than a mash tun. And if you care about clear wort. I would assume they do not. So the bottom drain design excels in cleaning for the most part. If I was shopping around I would save $800 and just get a normal kettle as cleaning is easy as one can drain most of the cleaning water away before lifting the lightweight kettle. But I understand the draw for some.

 

[Bobby_M]

I was dubious on the benefits of a bottom drain kettle until I had one. Now every time I demo a system that doesn't have one and I have to heave it over to my sink for cleaning, it gets further cemented into the "why did I wait so long" books.

I'm not saying the kettles on legs, whether BB or Spike, are worth the added price. I'm just saying, all else equal, if you're custom building/buying a kettle that is getting ports put on it, you might as well have one of them be through the bottom if possible. I sell bottom drains probably twice as often as side drains at this point.

 

[Bassman2003]

I have a bottom drain HLT and love it. But like you said, it is just water. I almost think the kettle design should be closer to a conical so all of the sediment could be "dropped" after a rest and nothing but clear wort would be left behind. But we seem to make do with whatever equipment we have in the end.

 

[wickedbeernut]

After having owned a Spike 15G bottom drain Trio system, I would never go back to a flat bottom system. There is the matter of cost. The Spike system is over $12K, but well worth it in my opinion. It'll be interesting to see how much an equivalent BrewBuilt bottom drain system costs.

There's no issue with sediment in the boil kettle. Both the Spike and BrewBuilt boil kettles have a whirlpool port. Once the whirlpool is complete, you rotate the racking arm to sit just above the trub.