Can I get 240V direct from C.B. Panel?

[Photopilot]

I have moved across the country and while I am in a better place now my new rented place does not have 240 anywhere in the house. Everything is gas or 120V. As a result my beer selection has dwindled down to only 5 on tap. Situation is getting desperate here, only because I have not had an IPA on tap for some time.

I don't want to start cutting holes in sheet rock, but i got to find a way to get my brew rig back up and running. Is there any way to pull 240V directly out of the CB panel? If so it is very close to where I would be brewing in the garage and I could be back in business tomorrow.

 

[hampdenbrewing]

Yes it may be possible, but if you are asking this question I would suggest calling on an electrician. Not being sarcastic just concerned.

 

[Photopilot]

Yes it may be possible, but if you are asking this question I would suggest calling on an electrician. Not being sarcastic just concerned.

I've wired my own house, my own boat and created my own electrical brew panel. If it can be done, I can do it just need someone to tell me how.

 

[itsme6582]

yes it may be possible, but if you are asking this question i would suggest calling on an electrician. Not being sarcastic just concerned.

+1

 

[DaleHair]

I would install a receptacle under the panel. You need the appropriate size: receptacle, 2 pole breaker, romex and romex connectors, and remodel outlet box.

 

[Photopilot]

I would install a receptacle under the panel. You need the appropriate size: receptacle, 2 pole breaker, romex and romex connectors, and remodel outlet box.

Thanks Dale,

The CB panel is actually on an outside wall.

I am trying to disturb as little sheet rock as possible it being a rental. What I am hoping for is a way to get an outlet wired directly from a CB in the panel. It could be set up just temporarily for brew days.

Failing someone coming up with a way to do this. My plan is to surface mount an electric box inside the garage opposite the CB panel. Cut a hole behind it just big enough to allow a wire clamp to fit so the box fits flush. I would install a 40 amp receptacle in the box and a 40 amps CB in the panel.

My only question in that case is do I need 8 gauge romex or will 10 do?

 

[afr0byte]

I thought you'd wired a ton of things before? I'd call an electrician.

 

[Photopilot]

I thought you'd wired a ton of things before? I'd call an electrician.

How much do you think an electrician would charge to tell me I need 8 or 10 gauge wire?

 

[DaleHair]

The code says you would need #8 wire, #10 THHN is rated for 40a but can the breaker has to be no more than 30a, the reason for the 40a rating is for derating due to ambient heat and when there are more than 3 conductors in a conduit. You can surface mount an outlet box or recess mount it, not much difference. Do not forget the proper romex box connectors, DO NOT just run the wires through a hole in the panel. Proper grounding and a GFCI breaker for safety.

 

[afr0byte]

How much do you think an electrician would charge to tell me I need 8 or 10 gauge wire?

You're paying for safety, which is worth it (to me). Also, I personally wouldn't be altering electrical on a building I didn't own (Heck, it's probably illegal.).

 

[Photopilot]

Thanks again Dale.

I had looked that up. My brewing panel has a GFCI built into it.

 

[Photopilot]

You're paying for safety, which is worth it (to me). Also, I personally wouldn't be altering electrical on a building I didn't own (Heck, it's probably illegal.).

When I built my house in Wyoming I was allowed to wire it myself. I studied the code and all my work met the inspectors approval. I have since added a variety of 240V circuits to the house for changing of appliances and adding power tools. Because my books are in that house I don't have the resources to draw on. I have had to fix 2 wiring problems on the house I am renting now and can see code violations on the exposed wires in the garage.

I came here for advice on how to solve a problem in a way I don't think is feasible, but was running it by the board just to make sure. If I wanted to be nagged at I would have looked for a forum with my mother on it. Please refrain from trying to save me from myself.

I have not brewed in about a year, and I barely have a years supply left so I need to do something quick before I get low.

 

[Bobby_M]

Please don't get pissy. The worst possible thing would be someone here making light of the dangers of sticking your hands in a load center to jury rig a connection and find out you're dead. It's impossible to know, based on a single paragraph, if someone is capable of understanding the dangers here.

Rant over. You cannot, and should not, attempt to gator clip wires on to the bus bars in the panel. The only safe way is to put a 240 breaker in and attach a surface mount box with a receptacle in it. The extent of the drywall damage would be like a 3/4" hole which could easily be patched. While I don't recommend it at all, I suppose you COULD leave one corner screw off the cover and route some SJ to your control panel. It's really ghetto.

 

[Photopilot]

Thanks Bobby,
I had no intentions of alligator clipping anything or doing anything unsafe.

I apologize for getting pissy, I just don't feel its appropriate for people who admit they would not do it themselves to tell a DIYer how or why not to do it. With this mindset the owners of Sabco would be rich and this website would be less relevant.


I was in Home Depot today looking at parts.

While they make 40A CBs they don't make 40A receptacles. I guess the 40A CB is only for hardwired appliances? I would have to step up to a 50A outlet to make it work. I am assuming if I put a 50A outlet in the wall I should have a 50 Amp CB and appropriate wires backing it up? I will put 50A CB, 6 Ga Romex and a 50A surface mounted receptacle.

 

[l3asturd]

If you put a 40A breaker in you can keep the #8 wire and still use a 50A receptacle. The CB is used to protect the wire. If someone ever plugged anything in that was over 40A, which would be an electric oven or large welder basically, it would just blow the breaker. It's not good practice as it will cause confusion to someone looking to get 50 amps, however that is unlikely. You could always label the outlet as 40Amps. NOTE: I don't think anyone using a 50A plug would be able to use the 40A receptacle anyway, I believe they have different prong configurations.

The ideal situation of course would be to just run everything as 50 amps. 50A breaker, #6 90C wire, 50A receptacle. #6 get's a bit pricy, and get's a little harder to work with.

One more thing, not trying to flame the fire or anything, but there is quite a difference between running romex in an under construction house and drilling a hole in the main panel of an energized apartment. Can't stress enough how dangerous working in a live panel is. Never assume anything is de-energized.

 

[Photopilot]

IThe ideal situation of course would be to just run everything as 50 amps. 50A breaker, #6 90C wire, 50A receptacle. #6 get's a bit pricy, and get's a little harder to work with.

This is what I plan on doing. My last place had the same receptacle for the oven and dryer I can't remember if it was 30A or a 50A receptacle but there were 30A and 40A CBs on the two different circuits. I was suspect of the wires supporting the circuits. I feel if its a 50 A outlet it should be backed up with 50A supply. I have upgraded my oven in my house to a double one which had me running either a 6/4 or 8/4 wire in my crawl space into the wall in the kitchen and into the panel. Working with wire like this is like wrestling a boa constrictor. The 4/0 aluminum was like wrestling an Anaconda.

One more thing, not trying to flame the fire or anything, but there is quite a difference between running romex in an under construction house and drilling a hole in the main panel of an energized apartment. Can't stress enough how dangerous working in a live panel is. Never assume anything is de-energized.

I honestly appreciate all constructive advice from a knowledgeable source. When I built my house I worked in a hotel with an electrician that I asked advice from over dinner each night. When it was time to install the panel I hired him to do it and he spent 3 hours doing it, all while the panel was hot. For the last hour he supervised while I finished the process. His name was Sparky. That was the only name I knew him by but I think it might have been a nickname.

When I built the house I had an area of the garage sheeted in green rock as it was to become my brewery. Instead it turned into a cabinet shop and I have had to rewire the wall after the fact with 2 more 250A runs to power a heater, dust collection and Variable Frequency Drive to supply 3 phase power all while my panel was hot.

The one technical problem I am having now is the romex connector in the panel. I normally use the ones that have a lock nut configuration on the back to hold it into the panel then two screws to lock the wire. I don't see that I can easily get to the back of the CB panel to secure a lock nut without removing a lot of sheet rock. Can anyone suggest a connector that might work?

 

[DaleHair]

Put the connector on the romex, fish the wire into the panel and put the locknut on, you only need a hole the size of the connector. The 50a receptacle is also used for 40a circuits which no one uses any more but is acceptable to use on 40a or 50a circuits.

 

[audger]

How much do you think an electrician would charge to tell me I need 8 or 10 gauge wire?

if you dont know how to type "AWG table" into google and read it, you probably should be asking an electrician...

 

[DaleHair]

Just looking at a table can/will give you the wrong answer, you need to know how to use the many tables that are in the code book.. He asked on this forum which has several electricians as members and got an answer from an electrician.