BYO Guinness Foreign Extra Stout clone

[JAStout]

I'd like to brew a Guinness Foreign Extra Stout clone. My search led me to BYO. The recipe i found there calls for brewing two separate batches and mixing the two just before bottling, I'd like to avoid that if it doesn't add to the final product. Any ideas why the author (Chris Colby) chose to do it this way? Has anyone brewed this?

The following was cut from the BYO website:

Guinness Foreign Extra Stout clone
5 gallons/19 L, all-grain; OG = 1.078; FG = 1.019; IBU = 40; SRM = 43; ABV = 7.5%

Ingredients:

13 lbs. (5.9 kg) 2-row pale ale malt
2 lbs. 2 oz. (0.96 kg) flaked barley
1.0 lb. (0.45 kg) roasted barley (500 °L)
11.33 AAU Challenger hops (60 mins) (1.6 oz./46 g of 7% alpha acids)
Wyeast 1084 (Irish Ale) or White Labs WLP004 (Irish Ale) yeast (2 qt./2 L starter plus 0.5 qt/500 mL mini-starter)
2/3 cup corn sugar (for priming)

Step by Step:

Brew pale base beer Mash flaked barley and 11 lbs. (5.0 kg) of pale malt for 60 minutes at 152 °F (67 °C) in 4.1 gallons (15 L) of water. Collect about 6 gallons (23 L) of wort and boil hard for 90 minutes, adding hops with 60 minutes left in boil. Shoot for a yield around 4 gallons (15 L). (Your SG should be around 1.093.) Cool wort, siphon to fermenter, aerate and pitch yeast from big starter. Ferment at 68 °F (20 °C).

Make stout coloring extract Mash roasted barley and 2.0 lbs. (0.91 kg) of pale malt at 152 °F (67 °C) in 80 oz. (2.4 L) of water. Stir in CaCO3 until pH value is between 5.2 and 5.4. Mash for 45–60 minutes. Collect 1.5 gallons (5.7 L) of wort. Boil for 30 minutes to reduce volume to 1 gallon (3.8 L). Cool wort, siphon to 1 gallon (3.8 L) jug, aerate and pitch yeast. Ferment at 68–72 °F (20–22 °C). Make stout Combine beers in keg or bottling bucket.

 

[smjohnson316]

I have never made this recipe and I am also not sure why you would need to brew 2 batches and then combine them. I do however have the new Clone Brews recipe book that does have a Guiness Extra Stout clone recipe.

Style: Dry Stout
Original Gravity : 1.044-1.045
Final Gravity: 1.010-1.011
IBU: 40
SRM: 54
ABV: 4.2%
Size: 5 gallons
Method: Extract

Ingredients:
12 oz. British roasted barley
4 oz. 55 L British crystal malt
4 oz. flaked barley
3 oz. acid malt
4lbs. Mountmellick light malt syrup
1.66 lbs. Muntons light DME
1 oz. Target @8.5% AA (bittering hop)
1/2 oz. East Kent Goldings @5% AA (bittering hop)
1 tsp. Irish moss
Wyeasts 1084 Irish Ale yeast
1.25 cups Muntons light DME (for priming)

Steep British roasted barley, British crystal malt, flaked barley, and acid malt for 30 minutes at 150 degrees.

Bring to a boil and add the light malt syrup, light DME, hops. Boil for 60 minutes. Add the irish moss for the last 15 minutes of the boil.

I know I did not answer your question but at least you have another recipe for Guiness Extra Stout.

 

[avidhomebrewer]

I've made that same recipe that sm posted and it turns out great. I see no reason to make 2 batches then combine either.

If you're looking for the ag version of the above recipe, substitute the dme/syrup with:
6# 2 row
1 additional pound of flaked barley (1# 4oz total)

If no one else can answer your question, drop byo an email and see why they did it that way. I've sent them emails before and they do get answered.

 

[stevedasleeve]

That recipe looks pretty suspicious IMHO. 40 IBU and 4.2% ABV? Not for the Foreign Extra Stout me thinks - that is stronger and much more bitter. Not that I know anything about anything.

 

[smjohnson316]

I have never made the recipe from the Clone Brews recipe book but they state that it is the Foreign Extra Stout recipe with ABV of 4.2%.

 

[flabyboy]

The foreign extra stout is 7.5 ABV. Just looked at the bottle in my fridge. That's a big difference

 

[chemist308]

If the foreign extra stout is 7.5%, what's the extra stout sold in in the US? I'm also seeing 4.2% in this thread which seems light. I'm curious which it is. I do know from experience most of my friends (Yuengling drinkers) get knocked on their butts quickly by the US sold extra stout, which to me feels like a normal beer :>)

Also how close in taste is the foreign extra stout to the extra stout in US, because I'd love to make this if it's close in taste to that too.

 

[remilard]

I have never made the recipe from the Clone Brews recipe book but they state that it is the Foreign Extra Stout recipe with ABV of 4.2%.

In your previous post you said it was a recipe for Guinness Extra Stout, which is a different beer from Guinness Foreign Extra Stout.

As pointed out, it is quite clearly a poor recipe for FES if that is the intention.

 

[smjohnson316]

I was just trying to help out JAStout with possibly finding a clone recipe for Guinness Extra Stout. In his original post he mentioned Foriegn Gunniess Extra Stout. Like I have stated I have never made this recipe but I did take it straight from the Clone Brews 2nd Edition book. Maybe the authors of the book missed the mark on creating a good clone for this brew. But the book also says:

"This recipe is for the bottled Guinness sold in England and Ireland, NOT the Extra Stout sold in the United States, which is 6 percent alcohol"

 

[flabyboy]

I was just trying to help out JAStout with possibly finding a clone recipe for Guinness Extra Stout. In his original post he mentioned Foriegn Gunniess Extra Stout. Like I have stated I have never made this recipe but I did take it straight from the Clone Brews 2nd Edition book. Maybe the authors of the book missed the mark on creating a good clone for this brew. But the book also says:

"This recipe is for the bottled Guinness sold in England and Ireland, NOT the Extra Stout sold in the United States, which is 6 percent alcohol"

I think the mix up is actually what stout we are actually talking about. The Foregin extra stout was just recently exported to the US. So now Guinness has an Extra Stout, a Draught, and a foreign extra stout available in the states. the foreign extra stout is 7.5 ABV, while I beleive the Draught and extra stout are much less

 

[14thstreet]

I'd like to brew a Guinness Foreign Extra Stout clone. My search led me to BYO. The recipe i found there calls for brewing two separate batches and mixing the two just before bottling, I'd like to avoid that if it doesn't add to the final product. Any ideas why the author (Chris Colby) chose to do it this way?

After thinking about this, I have some ideas. Take these with a grain of salt until supported by others, i.e., Chris Colby.

1) My first guess is that this is how Guiness (or other big brewers) make stout. I suspect extract coloring (for example SINEMAR is fermented) is used to color/flavor the beer. Roasted barley may also cause problems in the brewery that we as homebrewers may or may not also experience. See this older BYO article by Ashton Lewis

2) Why? Water and pH management. The dark roasted grains can drive mash pH down and it may be necessary to counter that by adding salts like chalk or baking soda. However, chalk is relatively insoluble and/or inefficient and you'd need a lot of it or special measures to raise pH. In doing so, you might have a beer that just tastes too minerally/chalky. Adding baking soda provides the bicarbonates but also can raise sodium levels very high. It's even less efficient than chalk and you'd need even more of it to raise pH. Some would say you don't need any salts even in RO water to counteract dark malts - pH is still in acceptable ranges.

Perhaps by doing a separate, smaller mash, pH is more easily managed and the salts needed are small enough that when diluted by the larger, dark malt-free mash, the negative effects of those salts on flavor, etc, are minimized. I'm not sure why the 2nd mash needs to be fermented, but that might be a nod to process (Guiness, SINEMAR or otherwise).

3) That said, roasted barley doesn't need to be mashed and can be steeped (separately). If used this way, one might not have to worry about the dark grain contributions to mash pH. This may also provide a different character but again, I haven't done any of this before so take it with a grain a salt.

 

[OLDBREW]

I don't think "Clone Brews" recipe is close to the flavor profile of Guinness Extra Stout!

After our Prohibition, by US laws, Beer couldn't be over a certain %, and still be called beer (i think 5.5% max. at one time). That's where products like our Colt 45 Malt Liquor came from. Malt Liquor was/is allowed to be higher in alcohol.

Laws have changed for imports, and now we can get the stronger 7.5 % "foreign extra stout" instead of just the import "extra stout" which was/is 5%. As you can see below, they are two different beers.

From Guinness history page

•1769: First export shipment of GUINNESS® to England.
•1770s: Arthur began brewing Porter at St. James's Gate.
•1799: Arthur made the decision to cease brewing ale to concentrate solely on brewing porter.
•1801: First recorded brewing of West India Porter, now known as GUINNESS® Foreign Extra Stout.
•1803: Arthur Guinness II took over the St. James's Gate Brewery on Arthur's death.
•1817: First recorded shipment to United States of America.
•1821: Regulations for brewing Extra Superior Porter were laid down, now GUINNESS® Extra Stout.
•1862: The first trade mark label is introduced for bottles of GUINNESS® Stout.
•1830s: St. James's Gate Brewery became the largest brewery in Ireland.

The weaker versions that were exported to the United States, were coming from other countries too.
Germany brewhouses brewed batches of their beers "for export only" to meet our regulation requirements on imports

here is some more info on where that recipe in BYO may have taken birth from.

Guinness Extra Stout (North America)
Score
85 84
OVERALL Style
Brewed by Labatt Breweries (InBev)
Style: Dry Stout
London, Canada
Serve in English pint
bottled
common
on tap
common
Broad Distribution

WEIGHTED AVG: 3.34 ABV: 5%
COMMERCIAL DESCRIPTION
Labatt's brew a pale ale base to which is added the unfermented but hopped Guinness wort extract. Guinness Extra Stout is brewed in Canada by Labatt under license from Arthur Guinness Son & Company. Editor's Note: It looks like Moosehead is also brewing Guinness. Bottles in the US are from there of late, but Canadian bottles are still showing Labatt. 04/23/06

 

[JAStout]

Thanks everyone!

I plugged the BYO bill into Brew Target, it looks good to me. I think I'm going to make it, mash all the grains together. KISS.


Batch Size: 5.000 gal
Boil Size: 5.750 gal
Boil Time: 1.000 hr
Efficiency: 70%
OG: 1.079
FG: 1.021
ABV: 7.5%
Bitterness: 31.1 IBUs (Tinseth)
Color: 37 SRM (Morey)

 

[kellynm]

So... how'd it turn out???

 

[JAStout]

It received good reviews from everyone who tried it, many keep asking when I'll brew it again.

 

[insnekamkze86]

Guinness draught is 4.8 abv extra stout is 5 abv and foreign extra stout is 7.5 abv that you get in the states. So any clone thats below these numbers is off weather its extra or all grain.

 

[insnekamkze86]

All three are different beasts and are all great but the foreign extra stout is the best if your looking for a robust full flavor dry type of stout. Extra is simlar but bot as dry and robust. And the draught is just like drinking cream and water. It's soft and only a little bit dry. I think the stouts taste better with co2 then nitrogen. Nitrogen can leave a weird taste in your mouth toward the back of the tongue.

Here in pa draught is 33 a case, extra stout 35 a case and foreign extra stout is 45 a case. Other places is 5 dollars more per case. So a clone to make thats close is nice to find since u can get 2 cases for the price one.

 

[brewhaha_rva]

The FES is a mix of aged and new beer. That is all.

 

[KPatton]

Folks need to work on their reading comprehension. Guinness FOREIGN Extra Stout is an entirely different beer than Guinness EXTRA Stout. There are about five different Guinesses out there. The bottled Extra is different than the Foreign Extra, and the canned and bottled draught are nearly the same. The FOREIGN extra was brewed for the Caribbean market and was brewed in kind of the same way as India Pale Ale was for the Indian market for the same reasons. It has higher ABV and more hops. Another stout in the Caribbean basin that is in the same class is Dragon Stout brewed in Jamaica.

So if you are looking for a Foreign Extra Stout recipe you could probably take a basic Guinness recipe and increase the hop rate to 40 IBU and then adjust the grain bill to get the higher 7.5 ABV if you have brewing software that lets you do that easily. Adjust the grain bill ingredients proportionally, to keep the flavor balanced, don't just jack up the base grain poundage.

For added flavor complexity you can add different raw sugars in small amounts so long as you back down the base grain to keep the alcohol to the proper level.