Butane Hops Extraction

[dwarven_stout]

The only con to this method, as I see it, is that your method involves heating the hops. I feel that heating them would start an oxidation process that cold extraction with butane wouldn't.

Forget oxidation.

Heating hops in water = isomerization = loss of aroma.

 

[bottlebomber]

Forget oxidation.

Heating hops in water = isomerization = loss of aroma.

I think that was the concept I was after, but had my terminology wrong. Best if the hops are kept cold during the process. There's another possible extraction method. If you ground up the hops, and you knew what micron size the resin glands were, you could put a series of graduated-micron bags in an ice water bath, in a 5 gallon bucket let's say, and put the hops in the water and go at it with a paint mixer. The larger particles would get trapped in the coarser micron bag, and the resin glands would sift through but then get caught in the finer micron bag. Because its icy the resin nodules stay hard. Then you dry them out and use them. I think I've heard of people doing this

 

[dwarven_stout]

I think that was the concept I was after, but had my terminology wrong. Best if the hops are kept cold during the process. There's another possible extraction method. If you ground up the hops, and you knew what micron size the resin glands were, you could put a series of graduated-micron bags in an ice water bath, in a 5 gallon bucket let's say, and put the hops in the water and go at it with a paint mixer. The larger particles would get trapped in the coarser micron bag, and the resin glands would sift through but then get caught in the finer micron bag. Because its icy the resin nodules stay hard. Then you dry them out and use them. I think I've heard of people doing this

That sounds rather similar to how you make hashish.

Just sayin'.

 

[bottlebomber]

That sounds rather similar to how you make hashish.

Just sayin'.

I wouldn't know personally, but I think the two plants have at least some similarities

 

[DrJerryrigger]

Forget oxidation.

Heating hops in water = isomerization = loss of aroma.

Do you know how much isomerization is really a problem? The major loss of aroma we're used to in brewing is from boiling off the aroma, which could be condensed.

I think that was the concept I was after, but had my terminology wrong. Best if the hops are kept cold during the process. There's another possible extraction method. If you ground up the hops, and you knew what micron size the resin glands were, you could put a series of graduated-micron bags in an ice water bath, in a 5 gallon bucket let's say, and put the hops in the water and go at it with a paint mixer. The larger particles would get trapped in the coarser micron bag, and the resin glands would sift through but then get caught in the finer micron bag. Because its icy the resin nodules stay hard. Then you dry them out and use them. I think I've heard of people doing this

So hop honey hash isn't good enough for you, you need to try hop bubble hast! (I only learned about it when looking up info for the butane extraction experiment) I would have to do some research, and maybe just break out the microscope, to figure out if the AA glands are a think that could just fall off and fit through a screen of a particular size. Also the ice water trick has a lot to do with how THC glands work, I don't know if it would translate.
But then again I didn't really think the butane extraction would work at all.

 

[bottlebomber]

Do you know how much isomerization is really a problem? The major loss of aroma we're used to in brewing is from boiling off the aroma, which could be condensed.

So hop honey hash isn't good enough for you, you need to try hop bubble hast! (I only learned about it when looking up info for the butane extraction experiment) I would have to do some research, and maybe just break out the microscope, to figure out if the AA glands are a think that could just fall off and fit through a screen of a particular size. Also the ice water trick has a lot to do with how THC glands work, I don't know if it would translate.
But then again I didn't really think the butane extraction would work at all.

It would definitely translate. Have you ever had a nice one pound bag of leaf hops, and seen the yellow "keef" in the bottom of the bag? I bet they're the same size on a microscopic level as well, or very close.

 

[SethNice]

I do regular butane extracts and this has sprung my curiosity as well. I personally find my extracts packed with flavor, and with the same aroma as the starting material. Freshness means everything

 

[lupinator]

I just made some hop extract last night with my Closed Loop Butane Extractor(which recovers the butane for reuse at the end), and it came out absolutely amazing. The butane process does a way better job of preserving the aromatics than C02 because it stays at low temperatures and pressures. The resulting extract smells exactly like the cascade hops I started with but extremely concentrated. I have been passing it out to get feedback and I cant wait to try it in my next batch. Everyone who has seen and smelled it has been blown away. Its gonna be a revolution!

 

[lupinator]

I ran a pound of Cascade last night through a closed loop butane extractor and it was absolutely phenomenal. Contact me if you want to try some or if you want to get your own closed loop extractor

[email protected]

 

[passedpawn]

Anyone try a Magical Butter on hops yet? Apparently it works well with other similar stuff.

http://magicalbutter.com/

 

[SethNice]

I dry hopped with some citra butane exrtract recently. It is an oil so it takes a long time to get into solution in your beer, especially cold. I poured a couple off that had a some serious resiny bite that would peel the skin off your tongue. I'm thinking about diluting the oil with some ethanol before dry hopping next time to aid in blending better/faster.

 

[everythingextractions]

Has anyone ever tried a butane hops extraction? I know that there is a fairly simple, cheap, yet dangerous process that people use for extracting hash oils from cannabis (not that I would ever do that...) I also just learned that hops and cannabis are very closely related plants.

From putting two and two together, and doing a little research, theoretically the extraction process would work for hops, but im wondering if anyone has actually tried it and used it in a brew with desirable results?

I have a new organic and non toxic solvent to use instead of using butane to get an extraction. It extracts more and is 1/8 the volatility as well as it will actually taste like your hops. Butane is a poisonous solvent and should be avoided. Our gas can be used in an open loop or a closed loop system. Everythingextractions.com
hit me up for more info!

 

[lolznrofls]

Are we talking about hopps or hashish?

 

[aeviaanah]

Both


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[dwarven_stout]

I have a new organic and non toxic solvent

A new organic solvent, eh? Will wonders never cease?

 

[aurum]

I just had a thought that I did not see here. Has anyone considered using a pressure vessel with a colander full of cones and dumping a handful of dry ice on top then sealing it up. I am not sure the viability, but you are basically pressurizing hops with incredibly cold CO2. I do not know if the CO2 would convert back into a liquid at this pressure and temperature though. Unfortunately finding a pressure vessel is the difficulty, originally I was thinking of using a pressure cooker as the vessel however they usually top out at 15 psi which is not sufficient for our purposes.

EDIT: Sorry for reviving a long dead thread

 

[KLITE]

Theres far too much bad info on this thread.

Hop butane oil can indeed be made, but theres a reason theyre doing it with co2 hehe.
Butane is an excellent gas at picking up molecules c10 through c30 and not so great for molecules much bigger than that, mainly picks up the c10s through 20s. Basically all the nice stuff, hydrocarbons, flavonoids etc. However it also picks up undesirables such as plant waxes and lipids, and hops is extremely high in waxes especially.
When concentrating the oils present in plant material, your not only concentrating the desirables, but also some undesirables. If your system isnt top notch you can end up with a mess.
Moreover the volume of hops you need to get 1 or 2ml of essential oils is like around 100g, in comparisson to the 10i%ish of acids. You need a fairly big system to try and get anything useful out of it. Bear in mind a decent system for closed loop extraction can easily run you 5/6g. Not to mention you need a vaccuum oven and decent pump to purge the end product of the solvent.

Co2 is an absolute CRAP! solvent for botanical extractions, period. At least if you want to keep the plant waxes away without the need of a polar solvent dewaxing, and obviously subsequent heat purge. It will pick up hydrocarbons but at a smaller rater than its abaility to extract the alpha and beta acids from the hops. The only reason it kind of works ok is because at supercritical conditions its much harder for certain undesirables to make it into the concentrate.

My advice is find where hops are grown, by them fresh, take em home put em in a room at max 16C and 60% humidity and let them dry as slowly as humanely possible. Once done buy a boveda humidity pack for cigars and those nasa thermosealable bags, shove em in and put em n the fridge at 8C. It will smell better and stronger than the day you picked them up.

 

[passedpawn]

Theres far too much bad info on this thread.

Hop butane oil can indeed be made, but theres a reason theyre doing it with co2 hehe.
Butane is an excellent gas at picking up molecules c10 through c30 and not so great for molecules much bigger than that, mainly picks up the c10s through 20s. Basically all the nice stuff, hydrocarbons, flavonoids etc. However it also picks up undesirables such as plant waxes and lipids, and hops is extremely high in waxes especially.
When concentrating the oils present in plant material, your not only concentrating the desirables, but also some undesirables. If your system isnt top notch you can end up with a mess.
Moreover the volume of hops you need to get 1 or 2ml of essential oils is like around 100g, in comparisson to the 10i%ish of acids. You need a fairly big system to try and get anything useful out of it. Bear in mind a decent system for closed loop extraction can easily run you 5/6g. Not to mention you need a vaccuum oven and decent pump to purge the end product of the solvent.

Co2 is an absolute CRAP! solvent for botanical extractions, period. At least if you want to keep the plant waxes away without the need of a polar solvent dewaxing, and obviously subsequent heat purge. It will pick up hydrocarbons but at a smaller rater than its abaility to extract the alpha and beta acids from the hops. The only reason it kind of works ok is because at supercritical conditions its much harder for certain undesirables to make it into the concentrate.

My advice is find where hops are grown, by them fresh, take em home put em in a room at max 16C and 60% humidity and let them dry as slowly as humanely possible. Once done buy a boveda humidity pack for cigars and those nasa thermosealable bags, shove em in and put em n the fridge at 8C. It will smell better and stronger than the day you picked them up.

Well, since this thread is long dead, maybe I'll take a tangent. What do you think about steam distillation of hop oils?

 

[KLITE]

Well, since this thread is long dead, maybe I'll take a tangent. What do you think about steam distillation of hop oils?

I think its a great process if you have access to a say hl distiller minimum. I honestly doubt one would get much more than 10 or 15ml from 1 kg of really terpy hops, and 1 kg of hops ground suck up A LOT of water and you need for the plant material to literally be in abundant water.
However this is a more effective way of extracting the volatile aromatic compounds and leaving the alpha and beta acids behind than a hydrocarbon solvent extraction.

 

[passedpawn]

I think its a great process if you have access to a say hl distiller minimum. I honestly doubt one would get much more than 10 or 15ml from 1 kg of really terpy hops, and 1 kg of hops ground suck up A LOT of water and you need for the plant material to literally be in abundant water.
However this is a more effective way of extracting the volatile aromatic compounds and leaving the alpha and beta acids behind than a hydrocarbon solvent extraction.

I've got lots of questions for you! If you don't mind, would you take a look at this other thread here, and in particular my questions in Post #17:

Steam Distillation of Hops