Bringing a yeast starter back to life

[maplemontbrew]

I am going to begin making yeast starters for my batches soon and had a couple of questions.

1. Once the starter is ready can I store it for use later?

2. Assuming I'm storing it in the frig how do I reanimate it for pitching?

 

[i4ourgot]

I generally make the yeast starter a day or two before I brew not any earlier. I have saved extra runnings from my mashtun and stored for use as starters as much as a month later. If you do make a starter before hand and put it in the fridge let it sit out till it reaches room temp giving it a little swirl every now and then.

 

[duboman]

I make my starters on Mondays and brew on the weekends, this allows enough time for a step up if necessary, it's placed in the fridge to crash, pulled when ready to pitch. There is nothing wrong with pitching cold yeast into warmer wort, it's the opposite that can be problematic.

If the starter is stored longer than a week it should be restarted.

 

[ZenFitness]

I had a thread recently with similar questions... I was getting confirmation on methods I use.

What I do is make a 2L starter Tuesday night, let it go with an occasional swirl (every two hours or so as I can) until Thursday night or (preferably) Friday morning when I refrigerate it. The day of brewing first thing in the morning I decant down to about an inch of liquid above the yeast slurry and then leave it (with an airlock) out on the counter to warm up. I pitch it in the afternoon, so it's good and room temp by then. This last time the fermentation was so strong it blew the airlock off my seven gallon carboy (first time that's happened) and is still bubbling away (I brewed on Saturday). So it does work

 

[kiblerjd]

i don't understand why you would ever make a starter more than 1-2 days in advance because it completely defeats the purpose. you are trying to pitch active health yeast that is ready to go so if you make a starter 5-6 days in advance then put it in the fridge you are defeating the purpose in my opinion. do it 1-2 days in advance and you will never have an issue.

 

[k_mcarthur]

i don't understand why you would ever make a starter more than 1-2 days in advance because it completely defeats the purpose. you are trying to pitch active health yeast that is ready to go so if you make a starter 5-6 days in advance then put it in the fridge you are defeating the purpose in my opinion. do it 1-2 days in advance and you will never have an issue.

The idea behind a starter is to simply increase the cell count. Refrigerating for up to a week will not change how many cells there are. To keep from stressing the yeast you either need to pitch when starter is at high krausen, or let it ferment out completely and crash in refrigerator and decant before pitching.

 

[duboman]

The idea behind a starter is to simply increase the cell count. Refrigerating for up to a week will not change how many cells there are. To keep from stressing the yeast you either need to pitch when starter is at high krausen, or let it ferment out completely and crash in refrigerator and decant before pitching.

Correct, it's all about a healthy pitch rate of healthy yeast, they'll get active once they hit the wort

 

[tgmartin000]

I've heard Chris White state several times that you should let your starter go for 2 days. So my new routine is starter on tuesday, into the fridge on thursday, brew saturday. That gives about 36 hours cold crashing, which makes decanting much easier. Then I usually decant and let it warm sometime during the boil.

 

[kiblerjd]

So my new routine is starter on tuesday, into the fridge on thursday, brew saturday.

Maybe I need to rethink what I'm doing or maybe both methods work. What kind of lag time do you get with this method? When I pitch my starter (I use a stir plate) 24 hours after I make it, the fermentation takes off in the fermenter within hours. Sticking the yeast in the fridge for some reason just sounds like you are putting the guys right back to sleep. It must work though because you guys are getting good results. I also see the benefit if you want to decant.

 

[kjackson82]

I made my first starter for this last batch. Made it 5 days in advance, stirring as I could for two days, fridge for 3. Decant and let it warm while I brewed and had aggressive fermentation within 4 hours.

I'm new so this may be moot but I do wonder about possibly pitching to high of cell count? Need to do some more reading so not really sure how to know how high the cell count gets the longer the starter goes but like stated above, may not be an issue?

 

[maplemontbrew]

Can someone be a little more specific about the decanting and warming process?

 

[kjackson82]

Can someone be a little more specific about the decanting and warming process?

You cold crash the starter to get the yeast out of suspension in the wort. Once the yeast have settled on the bottom, you pour off as much of the top liquid that you can without disturbing the yeast cake (decant). After you decant, then you just let it warm back up to room temp before pitching as to not shock the yeast. I was under the impression that any sudden temp changes would shock them but as stated above, it may be possible to pitch cold yeast to room temp wort.

 

[maplemontbrew]

Did I hear correctly that 7-10 days is the longest you want to store a starter?

 

[duboman]

Did I hear correctly that 7-10 days is the longest you want to store a starter?

Yes, more or less you can keep a starter in the fridge for that amount of time. If things get delayed longer it is a good idea to make up a small wort and re-start.

 

[seckert]

I think people have the terminology of a starter and a slurry confused...I was same way until i talked to a brewer at a local microbrewery.
A slurry is when you make a starter, but then pitch it into wort before it has fermented out the whole way. pitching at high krausen so to speak.
A starter is when you let it ferment out the whole way then add the yeast from the starter to wort. the only true reason to use a starter is so you are pitching more yeast cells. I only do a starter if recipe calls for/needs more than one pack of yeast as i dont want to spend the extra money on buying two packs of yeast.
A starter is all about raising yeast cell count nothing more or less.

 

[duboman]

I think people have the terminology of a starter and a slurry confused...I was same way until i talked to a brewer at a local microbrewery.
A slurry is when you make a starter, but then pitch it into wort before it has fermented out the whole way. pitching at high krausen so to speak.
A starter is when you let it ferment out the whole way then add the yeast from the starter to wort. the only true reason to use a starter is so you are pitching more yeast cells. I only do a starter if recipe calls for/needs more than one pack of yeast as i dont want to spend the extra money on buying two packs of yeast.
A starter is all about raising yeast cell count nothing more or less.

Technically this is correct but if your washed slurry has been idle for awhile it is beneficial to make a small starter to get it going and account for any dead cells that it may have. Commercial breweries make batch after batch so the yeast is never really idle.

In addition, mutation is a possibility after 5-7 harvests so it is a good idea to start with fresh yeast after several harvests and washings.

 

[seckert]

Technically this is correct but if your washed slurry has been idle for awhile it is beneficial to make a small starter to get it going and account for any dead cells that it may have. Commercial breweries make batch after batch so the yeast is never really idle.

In addition, mutation is a possibility after 5-7 harvests so it is a good idea to start with fresh yeast after several harvests and washings.

Agreed that if it has been sitting for a long period of time then the added cells you got by making the starter in the first place have probably been lost, however i doubt that as long as you keep yeast at proper temperatures they would have such a high die off rate after 7-10 days. if that was the case then yeast packs would need to be sold within the 1st month they are made, most packs IME are good for at least 3-4 months before you start running into issues.

I dont know about harvesting the yeast and reusing it. I understand how to do it, but i guess i am just too lazy to bother with it when yeast isnt that expensive and if i am not brewing the same style soon then it will just die on me anyway.

 

[ZenFitness]

I dont know about harvesting the yeast and reusing it. I understand how to do it, but i guess i am just too lazy to bother with it when yeast isnt that expensive and if i am not brewing the same style soon then it will just die on me anyway.

I agree... reusing yeast for a few rounds probably wouldn't hurt, but I'm not wanting to risk an off taste in a whole batch of beer because the yeast mutated or had something else go wrong. I just buy a new WLP tube for each batch.

 

[tgmartin000]

Maybe I need to rethink what I'm doing or maybe both methods work. What kind of lag time do you get with this method? When I pitch my starter (I use a stir plate) 24 hours after I make it, the fermentation takes off in the fermenter within hours. Sticking the yeast in the fridge for some reason just sounds like you are putting the guys right back to sleep. It must work though because you guys are getting good results. I also see the benefit if you want to decant.

IMO, don't get too hung up on lag time. In fact, you want about a 12 hour lag time, from my understanding, to give the yeast time to reproduce. I think it's kind of an opinion thing, but I've always heard Jamil say short lag times can be detrimental, because it doesn't give the yeast enough time to reproduce. I'm usually at about a 12 hour lag time, and don't really have any desire to reduce that.

My 2 cents, YMMV, IMO, yadda yadda yadda.

 

[tgmartin000]

I agree... reusing yeast for a few rounds probably wouldn't hurt, but I'm not wanting to risk an off taste in a whole batch of beer because the yeast mutated or had something else go wrong. I just buy a new WLP tube for each batch.

I've recently started washing yeast, because it gets better after several generations. I'm hoping to see what the differences are between fresh yeast and 3rd generation or so.