Bringing 3.2% beer back!

[user 246304]

Thanks for the recipe, kind of puts it all in perspective. Interesting that you're using a normal mash temp.

Happy brewing whatever you do. Would love to see how it turns out. Actually this temp is just slightly higher than my normal temp, which is typically 150F x 90 minutes for all "normal strength" and above ales. Probably makes little if any difference, +2F. I'd probably try it again at 154F or so.

 

[moreb33rplz]

I brew a lot of 3-4 percent light lagers and pale ales, they're great. I don't do anything different other than reduce the base malt and mash slightly higher.

I absolutely love crushing these beers, no second guessing, no guilt

 

[beersk]

I brew a lot of 3-4 percent light lagers and pale ales, they're great. I don't do anything different other than reduce the base malt and mash slightly higher.

I absolutely love crushing these beers, no second guessing, no guilt

Heck yeah, that's the ticket right there. It's a perfect happy medium. You're not drinking lifeless NA beer and you're not getting hammered drinking regular strength beers. I guess if a beer does end up fermenting drier than I intend, at least I know it'll be fairly low carb. Haha. But the cool thing about brewing low gravity is just that probably most times a starter isn't needed for 5 gallons and I don't really care about FG all that much, whether it ferments dry enough or not. Most often, even with poor attenuation with a 1.034 OG, it's probably going to finish under 1.014. Unless you mash outlandishly high maybe...

 

[passedpawn]

Ahh, you guys are rousing memories of my teen days with friends, Ohio country roads and cases of returnable Pabst or Strohs 3.2% red caps. Couldn't get the "real stuff" until age 21, but to be perfectly honest I couldn't tell much difference anyway. Now I have the urge to brew a Back-to-the Future beer!

Yup, Maumee OH checking in. I think 3.2 was the only thing sold on Sundays. Age limit was 18 IIRC.

 

[sibelman]

my normal temp

little if any difference

Hmmm. I use various temps, depending on style, but enjoy a more malt forward IPA mashed at 154°F for an hour.

So, to take the ABV down without sacrificing much body/mouthfeel, I guess I'll try reducing the base malt quantity by a quarter, maybe swapping in some Munich, reducing bittering hops by a quarter, mashing at 158°F for ~40 minutes.

This may not get me to 3.2% but it's a start.

 

[user 246304]

Hmmm. I use various temps, depending on style, but enjoy a more malt forward IPA mashed at 154°F for an hour.

So, to take the ABV down without sacrificing much body/mouthfeel, I guess I'll try reducing the base malt quantity by a quarter, maybe swapping in some Munich, reducing bittering hops by a quarter, mashing at 158°F for ~40 minutes.

This may not get me to 3.2% but it's a start.

Yep. I think you're totally right on the 154F, which may be a good starting point I'll have to try. I'm probably really too conservative generally and don't "play" much anymore....once I land on a ringer for myself or my friends, I don't tweak much. But 154 v 150 would definitely make a difference, I should think, and I'll try it.

I used to brew at 158 all the time - I think I got that from Goose Island, where that was the preference. I honestly don't know if that's because they can turn and burn more brews per day using that regime, or the original brewer who designed all the main beers (Greg Hall), just liked the results using 158. I moved off it eventually because I tend to prefer a kind of dryness, I guess (though I don't know if the sensory threshold can pick up much difference, to be honest - I think this is covered in Hough, Briggs et al Malting and Brewing Science), so I almost always go with 150F and a long mash.

You bring me to think on it more. Thanks for the note.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Minnesota. We're the last holdout. 3.2% ABW beer is what's still sold in grocery stores here.

... and I suspect that getting beer, wine, and spirits into grocery stores is not "a hill to die on" for most MN businesses or MN people.

There is a long list of stores that sell groceries with a "Beer, Wine, and Spirits" store next door (apparently requires a separate entrance and a separate check out).

There are also a some "grand-fathered" exceptions if one truly "shops local" and can support quality 100 year old family run businesses.

 

[MaxStout]

... and I suspect that getting beer, wine, and spirits into grocery stores is not "a hill to die on" for most MN businesses or MN people.

There is a long list of stores that sell groceries with a "Beer, Wine, and Spirits" store next door (apparently requires a separate entrance and a separate check out).

There are also a some "grand-fathered" exceptions if one truly "shops local" and can support quality 100 year old family run businesses.

It took years to get the 2011 "Surly" growler bill passed. It took even longer to pass a bill allowing Sunday liquor sales in MN in 2017. It's not that grocery store liquor laws are a hill people don't want to die on. On the contrary, there are many people and groups interested in passing such legislation. There is bipartisan legislative support for this issue and there is a big push, but so far, not enough of a push to make it happen. The obstacles are the lobbies for the liquor distributors, trucking unions, liquor stores (including municipal stores that enjoy a local monopoly). These are the same forces that opposed the first two legislative items I mentioned above.

Right now, stores get around it by having a separate liquor store open up next door. However, it's a separate entity with separate entrances and separate point of sale from the grocer. Grocery stores have a thin margin on what they sell already. They want the alcohol sales brought in-house to provide a new revenue source.

Any expansion of alcohol sales in MN will always be an uphill battle.

 

[mac_1103]

Damned Lutherans!

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Damned Lutherans!

"Minnesota 13".

Any expansion of alcohol sales in MN will always be an uphill battle.

Along the MN borders, some (apparently) pragmatic businesses do creative things to not "fight that fight".

In the MSP/STP area, LiftBridge opened a tap room in New Richmond WI. Tattersall (spirits) repurposed a ShopKO building in River Falls WI to expand and create an impressive destination.

There are similar stories in the Duluth/Superior and Fargo/Moorhead area.

 

[MaxStout]

Damned Lutherans!

Funny you say that as Minnesota is the state that brought us Prohibition. Andrew Volstead was a Congressman from MN who authored the bill. He was Norwegian-American, so quite likely Lutheran.

Today, the battle is mainly between opposing business interests, and has little to do with temperance, though I recall a few pearl-clutchers speak out against the Sunday sales bill.

 

[mac_1103]

Funny you say that as Minnesota is the state that brought us Prohibition. Andrew Volstead was a Congressman from MN who authored the bill. He was Norwegian-American, so quite likely Lutheran.

I knew who Volstead was and where he was from, but almost everything else I know about Minnesota comes from "A Prairie Home Companion."

 

[MaxStout]

"Minnesota 13".


Along the MN borders, some (apparently) pragmatic businesses do creative things to not "fight that fight".

In the MSP/STP area, LiftBridge opened a tap room in New Richmond WI. Tattersall (spirits) repurposed a ShopKO building in River Falls WI to expand and create an impressive destination.

There are similar stories in the Duluth/Superior and Fargo/Moorhead area.

Those moves were driven by MN's production cap (once production exceeds the statutory limit, no more growler sales). Different battle--the moves had little to do with the grocery sales issue, which is primarily driven by....grocery stores. Incidentally, in 2022, MN increased the production cap for small breweries from 20k bbls to 150k bbls/year. So larger craft breweries can still offer growler fills in their taprooms. But that bill was reactive--only after MN saw some significant business scoot across the border.

Those producers moving across the border were doing so to enjoy the neighboring states' more permissive production laws. I get it. If I was operating a MN brewery or distillery about to reach the statutory threshold, I'd move, rather than wait years for our legislature to (maybe) pass a bill. It's more cost-effective and more conducive to business growth to simply move part or all of production to a favorable, nearby state. I recall a couple of them making a bunch of noise in the press to thumb their noses at MN.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

The interesting events are often (not always, but often) "along the edges"

Along the MN borders, some (apparently) pragmatic businesses do creative things to not "fight that fight".

Those moves were driven by MN's production cap (once production exceeds the statutory limit, no more growler sales). Different battle--the moves had little to do with the grocery sales issue, which is primarily driven by....grocery stores. Incidentally, in 2022, MN increased the production cap for small breweries from 20k bbls to 150k bbls/year. So larger craft breweries can still offer growler fills in their taprooms. But that bill was reactive--only after MN saw some significant business scoot across the border.

Those producers moving across the border were doing so to enjoy the neighboring states' more permissive production laws. I get it. If I was operating a MN brewery or distillery about to reach the statutory threshold, I'd move, rather than wait years for our legislature to (maybe) pass a bill. It's more cost-effective and more conducive to business growth to simply move part or all of production to a favorable, nearby state. I recall a couple of them making a bunch of noise in the press to thumb their noses at MN.

"Love it or leave it", fight for what you want (but don't "die on that hill"), or enjoy living on the edge. So many choices, so little time.

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... the main original topic "Bringing 3.2% beer back!"

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[BrewnWKopperKat]

most everything else I know about Minnesota comes from "A Prairie Home Companion."

And, in 2024, rumor has it that "the children are [still] all above average" in Lake Wobegon.

At the time, Keillor was typically seen as funny in the metro MN area [MSP/STP]. In Greater MN, typically not so much.

 

[gaviga]

As noted above, 3.2% was/is ABW. That's about 4% ABV. Many good beers around and can be brewed at that percent.

 

[madscientist451]

My first experience with 3.2 beer was at West Virginia University in the late 70’s. All the dive bars served cheap Stroh’s, which I believe was from Detroit. I think the they just added water to their regular beer to hit 3.2. Some bars had $.25 beer night or happy hour. That beer sucked, but we had fun anyway.
These days I’ve been trying to cut alcohol and calories but still enjoy a few beers after work. My low ABV homebrews have been a mixed bag, but I’ve learned a lot and it always gets consumed.

 

[Kickass]

“3.2” was a bad, and often unavoidable, word being stationed in Oklahoma and Kansas for a large portion of my career. It still makes me shake my head a little.
On a serious note, my brewing has steadily embraced lower and lower ABV beers. Although, not in the 3% range, a lot of my beers are around 4.5%

 

[MaxStout]

My first experience with 3.2 beer was at West Virginia University in the late 70’s. All the dive bars served cheap Stroh’s, which I believe was from Detroit. I think the they just added water to their regular beer to hit 3.2. Some bars had $.25 beer night or happy hour. That beer sucked, but we had fun anyway.
These days I’ve been trying to cut alcohol and calories but still enjoy a few beers after work. My low ABV homebrews have been a mixed bag, but I’ve learned a lot and it always gets consumed.
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I went to college around the same time as you, in a state that had 2 sets of minimum drinking ages. It was 18 for 3.2 beer; 21 for "high-point" beer, wine and spirits. Bars were either licensed to serve 3.2, or the other. So those 3.2 taverns were hangouts for college underclassmen. Good times, good times.

 

[elf_brewery]

I've talked to a few people about this as I'm starting to get into low abv brewing and I've shared a few of them. It seems everyone is fixated on brewing essentially non-alcoholic beer. And to me, NA beer tastes bad. Even the good ones don't taste like beer. They are beer-like, sure. But they aren't beer and leave me unsatisfied.

I've been brewing beers around 3%, shooting for 3.2% and they are every bit as satisfying as a 5% beer. I've been mashing warmer and shorter, using a bit more malts like Munich or Vienna, lowering the IBUs a tad, and using good yeast. It's just a theory of mine so far, but I feel the lower ABV just may let some of the more subtle yeast characteristics show a bit more. I currently have a 3.1% helles (Omega Mexican lager) and a 2.9% hefeweiss (W-68) on tap and I love them. Others have had them and said that if I wouldn't have told them they were 3% they would never have guessed. That makes me happy to hear.

I know others have been brewing lower abv beers, but I'm not talking cold mash (done that, don't like it) or 1.5% abv beers with 170F mash temps. I'm talking about the same exact styles we're all used to drinking, but a perfect in between abv. It's not really an extreme.

I think there's definitely a market for this as people want to cut back on their alcohol consumption but are put off by the price of NA beer and dissatisfied with it as well. Brewing 3.2 beer should be cheaper overall and can be every bit as flavorful and satisfying. Plus there are some historic styles that are under appreciated and unknown to much of the beer drinking public. I feel this is a largely untapped market, a perfect happy medium.

Maybe no one cares but I wanted to start a discussion for others who are doing the same, but not taking it to an extreme, just striving for a perfect happy medium while still achieving the same flavors.

Prost!

You need to remember that 3.2% beers back then are alcohol by weight, not ABV. The ABV equivalent would be ~4%, do no hassle. We brew English milds at 3.5-4% (light, dark, hoppy, or not) all the time and have no problem downing more than a couple each night.
Beer is a beverage in many countries. I like that.

 

[Witherby]

Damned Lutherans!

Luther’s wife Katharina was a homebrewer and Luther was quite fond of beer. It’s the pietist Scandinavian Lutherans that immigrated to the US that were the problem. German American Lutherans are heavy drinkers. Our Church picnic growing up had kegs of beer and everyone had a beer in one hand and a glove on the other in the softball game.

 

[mashdar]

I happen to have just brewed an experimental "small robust porter" at 3.2% ABV.

I used Bobby's kit, but did a ~90 minute cold (75F) extract* of half of the grain bill.

I used some Omega Kolsch II I had on hand.

I ended up with 1.038OG, 1.014FG, 40% brewhouse efficiency, 63% apparent attenuation, 3.2% ABV. Final uncarbonated pH = 4.5.

It just went in the keg post-crash 2 days ago. I'll update when it's ready to serve. The hydrometer sample was tasty and good body for 3.2%.

*The cold extract was steeping the crushed grain in the mash strike volume of water at 75F (basement temperature). It was recirculating, and I periodically stirred and lifted the malt pipe. Before heating, I gave it a 30 minute starch precipitation rest, then poured off the starch and proceeded with mash.
I was worried to O2 scavenging bread yeast might go wild, but activity seemed minimal.

 

[elf_brewery]

I happen to have just brewed an experimental "small robust porter" at 3.2% ABV.

I used Bobby's kit, but did a ~90 minute cold (75F) extract* of half of the grain bill.

I used some Omega Kolsch II I had on hand.

I ended up with 1.038OG, 1.014FG, 40% brewhouse efficiency, 63% apparent attenuation, 3.2% ABV. Final uncarbonated pH = 4.5.

It just went in the keg post-crash 2 days ago. I'll update when it's ready to serve. The hydrometer sample was tasty and good body for 3.2%.

*The cold extract was steeping the crushed grain in the mash strike volume of water at 75F (basement temperature). It was recirculating, and I periodically stirred and lifted the malt pipe. Before heating, I gave it a 30 minute starch precipitation rest, then poured off the starch and proceeded with mash.
I was worried to O2 scavenging bread yeast might go wild, but activity seemed minimal.

I remember visiting a brewpub in Park CIty, UT decades ago, after Utah was allowed to brew and sell at a pub, but it had to be no more than 3.2% ABW. It was certainly tasty with plenty of body.

 

[JAReeves]

I am brewing as often as possible to keep a keg of either pale ale or pilsner that runs about 3.5% on tap at all times. I like hoppy, but the bitterness needs to hang at 30 or less for it to be drinkable (do NOT make a 4% ABV with 50 IBU's of CTZ. Ask me how I know ). I am waiting to keg the latest SMaSH pale ale, Maris Otter and Whole-Cone Centennial. 3.6%, 32 IBU (est.). Instead of a Whirlpool, I dip-hopped 1 oz and at the tail-end of fermentation dry-hopped with 2 oz. It smells really good.

 

[Hermit]

Does this count as 'bringing it back'?

I found half case of these. I moved about 4 years ago. This has been sitting under some stuff. I opened one warm and gave it a sniff. I went upstairs for a glass and when I came back it had gushed a little. Not much though. About the only thing I could taste was the roasted grain. But, I've never been a fan of hops so they would have been on the low end as a bittering agent only. All that stuff about low ABV brews not storing well? It was quite drinkable. No cardboard. No sherry. Just roasted grain. I don't think I got any hop or even yeast esters though. I'm not big on tasting notes so after 11 years, I won't pretend my recollection is all that good.

 

[Broothru]

Funny you say that as Minnesota is the state that brought us Prohibition. Andrew Volstead was a Congressman from MN who authored the bill. He was Norwegian-American, so quite likely Lutheran.

Today, the battle is mainly between opposing business interests, and has little to do with temperance, though I recall a few pearl-clutchers speak out against the Sunday sales bill.

My wife comes from a long lineage of Minnesota Norwegian/Swede and Iowa Germans, all Lutheran. The first thing I learned about that religion is that you have to identify the synodical basis for each “flavor” of Lutheranism. I’ll guarantee, the branch she came from is anything but Prohibitionist teetotalers.

I was born and college educated in Kansas where liquor by the drink doesn’t exist outside of private clubs, liquor stores closed by 7 pm, no Sunday sales, and beer was 3.2% ABV. The saving grace was you could legally buy beer at 18, and fake IDs were easy to come by. Or so I’m told. Allegedly.

I consumed quite a lot of 3.2% beer back in those days. Allegedly.

 

[elf_brewery]

Just something I found on the web:
"Alcohol in 2019, as it has been for the past half-century, is measured in terms of ABV, or alcohol by volume. But because 3.2 percent beer is an odd relic of the past, it is not measured in this way; 3.2 actually means the percentage of alcohol by weight. If we’re talking in terms of ABV, which modern drinkers understand much better, 3.2 percent beer is really 4.0 percent beer. That’s not too different from the percentage of alcohol by weight in many “full” beers; Amstel Light clocks in at 4.1 percent, and Miller Lite, Coors Light, and Bud Light are all at 4.2 percent."
3.2% ABV would be 2.56% ABW. So, The 3.2 beer we remember from the 60's is stronger than the 3.2 beer of today.

 

[mac_1103]

Just something I found on the web:

Mentioned that a month ago on the previous page of this very thread.

 

[beersk]

Just something I found on the web:
"Alcohol in 2019, as it has been for the past half-century, is measured in terms of ABV, or alcohol by volume. But because 3.2 percent beer is an odd relic of the past, it is not measured in this way; 3.2 actually means the percentage of alcohol by weight. If we’re talking in terms of ABV, which modern drinkers understand much better, 3.2 percent beer is really 4.0 percent beer. That’s not too different from the percentage of alcohol by weight in many “full” beers; Amstel Light clocks in at 4.1 percent, and Miller Lite, Coors Light, and Bud Light are all at 4.2 percent."
3.2% ABV would be 2.56% ABW. So, The 3.2 beer we remember from the 60's is stronger than the 3.2 beer of today.

Yes and I mistakenly forgot that it was alcohol by weight and not percent. But I've brewed a few now, some have finished under 3% and they're a bit light. They almost remind of some NA beers where you really miss the sweetness that alcohol provides. I'm thinking to bump my original gravity up to about 1.040 from 1.034 to get a slight boost in ABV and flavor. I've been mashing for 45 minutes - the first 30 minutes at 156F, then infusing with a bit of water to bring it up to 162F for another 15 minutes. Then I boil for 45 minutes. Last 3 beers have all started at 1.036 and finished at 1.014. Jury's still out as to how they taste as they're still lagering.

But if I don't care for them much then with my future beers I will be bumping up that OG a bit to 1.040 and maybe mashing a bit lower to get it to dry out to 1.010 or so. Still lower ABV overall, which is the goal.

 

[elf_brewery]

Yes and I mistakenly forgot that it was alcohol by weight and not percent. But I've brewed a few now, some have finished under 3% and they're a bit light. They almost remind of some NA beers where you really miss the sweetness that alcohol provides. I'm thinking to bump my original gravity up to about 1.040 from 1.034 to get a slight boost in ABV and flavor. I've been mashing for 45 minutes - the first 30 minutes at 156F, then infusing with a bit of water to bring it up to 162F for another 15 minutes. Then I boil for 45 minutes. Last 3 beers have all started at 1.036 and finished at 1.014. Jury's still out as to how they taste as they're still lagering.

But if I don't care for them much then with my future beers I will be bumping up that OG a bit to 1.040 and maybe mashing a bit lower to get it to dry out to 1.010 or so. Still lower ABV overall, which is the goal.

Keep on updating. We brew 1030 OG and drink it all all evening. The brews could use a little improvement, but they're as good (or as close to good) as most craft beers that are below 5%ABV.