Brewzilla Gen4 Discussion/Tips Talk

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Just got the HED and attached it to the false bottom. Unless I’m missing something, the false bottom’s feet don’t sit flat anymore — the screw of the eye hook now sits lower and so the whole thing sort of tilts on the center axis.

That seems like a problem, as the false bottom can sit at an angle, not fully covering the bottom and letting some grains/hops through. Has anyone else experience this?

How are you checking this? The false bottom doesnt need to sit flat as the bottom of the brewery is not flat and has a dish to it. Is there any chance you can send us some photos so we can better understand how you have it setup. It's possible that one of the parts are not assembled in the correct way but hard to say without seeing a photo.
 
At Brewzilla gen 4... you do the whirlpool movemen ?t... I've heard from people who don't do it... is it right not to do it ?
 
At Brewzilla gen 4... you do the whirlpool movemen ?t... I've heard from people who don't do it... is it right not to do it ?
The point of the whirlpool is to concentrate the hops and trub in the center of the vessel so that clear wort can be drawn off from the side of the vessel. The BZ gen 4 has a drain in the center of the vessel.
 
I would not bother with a whirlpool. The screen fill filter a large percentage of the hops.

Of you are recirculating the hops form a cake above the screen like this:
hop cake.jpg


This is obviously a extreme case where several hundred grams have been used but if you tried to use a whirlpool with this much hops it would be far less effective than using the screen that comes with the unit.
 
The point of the whirlpool is to concentrate the hops and trub in the center of the vessel so that clear wort can be drawn off from the side of the vessel. The BZ gen 4 has a drain in the center of the vessel.
ok...so because the drain is in the center of the pan it wouldn't clog
 
I would not bother with a whirlpool. The screen fill filter a large percentage of the hops.

Of you are recirculating the hops form a cake above the screen like this:
View attachment 836423

This is obviously a extreme case where several hundred grams have been used but if you tried to use a whirlpool with this much hops it would be far less effective than using the screen that comes with the unit.
ok...so because the drain is in the center of the pan it wouldn't clog
 
ok...so because the drain is in the center of the pan it wouldn't clog

It really should not clog. Even if you look at situations like the photo of the huge hop cake we have not had any issues with clogging of the pump. We have done a lot of testing and intentionally have tried to clog the pump and we have not been able to clog the pump ourselves. With that said from time to time we do hear some customers say they have cloged the pump. It's certainly not very common but when people say they block the pump my assumption is that:

1. Maybe they have actually pumped the whole boiler dry. As we have a very large malt pipe volume it's quite easy to pump the entire contents of the boiler dry and pump all the liquid into the malt pipe.
2. If customers have a kink in the silicone elbow this could possible cause an issue like a blocked pump.
3. It's possible that mold is in the pump. Often after a brew day if you have not washed out the pump you can get a small bit of grain in the pump and this can quickly cause mold to grow and block the pump.
4. Something has fallen down the hole and caused a blockage. Maybe a nut or bolt from the false bottom scree.
 
It really should not clog. Even if you look at situations like the photo of the huge hop cake we have not had any issues with clogging of the pump. We have done a lot of testing and intentionally have tried to clog the pump and we have not been able to clog the pump ourselves. With that said from time to time we do hear some customers say they have cloged the pump. It's certainly not very common but when people say they block the pump my assumption is that:

1. Maybe they have actually pumped the whole boiler dry. As we have a very large malt pipe volume it's quite easy to pump the entire contents of the boiler dry and pump all the liquid into the malt pipe.
2. If customers have a kink in the silicone elbow this could possible cause an issue like a blocked pump.
3. It's possible that mold is in the pump. Often after a brew day if you have not washed out the pump you can get a small bit of grain in the pump and this can quickly cause mold to grow and block the pump.
4. Something has fallen down the hole and caused a blockage. Maybe a nut or bolt from the false bottom scree.
Thanks ....So why do you sell the hop spider together with the pan...if there is no problem with it clogging?
 
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Thanks ....So why do you sell the hop spider together with the pan...if there is no problem with it clogging?

We have been selling the hop spider even before the BrewZilla ever existed. When we first started selling the hop spider it was sold as an accessory for kettles made from 50L beer kegs. We have since changed the hook slightly but ultimately it's functionality pre-dates the brewzilla.

I would say it's not required with the BrewZilla but it was used a bit on the old models of Robobrew which had no false bottom screen at all.
 
We have been selling the hop spider even before the BrewZilla ever existed. When we first started selling the hop spider it was sold as an accessory for kettles made from 50L beer kegs. We have since changed the hook slightly but ultimately it's functionality pre-dates the brewzilla.

I would say it's not required with the BrewZilla but it was used a bit on the old models of Robobrew which had no false bottom screen at all.
thanks
 
How are you checking this? The false bottom doesnt need to sit flat as the bottom of the brewery is not flat and has a dish to it. Is there any chance you can send us some photos so we can better understand how you have it setup. It's possible that one of the parts are not assembled in the correct way but hard to say without seeing a photo.
Sorry I just saw this! All is well; I didn’t think about the fact that the center screw would sit in the center drain, so inside the unit itself everything sits correctly.
 
IMG_2907.jpeg

There's a big difference between the temp readout on my Gen4 and the actual temp of the mash as measured with a handheld thermometer. This troubles me, and also if my strike temp is low, or I want to do a step mash, it takes forEVER to bump up the mash temp. I assume a lot of this is due to the fact the temp probe is underneath the false bottom? Therefore you're being given the temp of the liquid sitting under the grain bed?
What am I missing here?
 
I had similar problems until I put in the HED option & got the Bluetooth thermometer. Now I control the mash temp with the Bluetooth and it works great with these additions to the Brewzilla.
 
@beerisyummy are you recirculating wort? With such a drastic difference (below mash at 203F and top of mash at 155F), I'm assuming you are not. That picture right there sums up why you want to recirculate wort during the mash- temperature stratification.

If you think about it, it makes total sense. Heating element is on bottom, heating up that volume of wort under you bag of grains. The only way that heat has to make its way to the top is through heat flowing up through your grain bed through conduction. You're not going to get a lot of heat transfer through a giant ball of grain. Hence recirculation. You take that 203F wort at the bottom, and pump it up to come down on top of your 155F wort and mix. You've then got gravity working and pressure differential from you pump.

And people always trash talk the temp sensor on the bottom by the heating element. But if you had it at the point of where your dial thermometer is and it kept going full bore heat, you'd be pissed as you were boiling wort at the bottom.

@Neldog0 has it right. Kegland has two great pieces of gear for this. With the HED, it ensures you get a flow of recirculating wort coming around the outside and flowing past the temp sensor, then the heat elements, before going out the drain. You have to recirculate to get this benefit.

Then with the bluetooth thermometer, it sits in the middle of the grain, but the Brewzilla is smart enough to still monitor the temperature sensor in the base. You can set it up to control to the Bluetooth thermometer (with its probe buried in the middle of grain bed), and tell it how much hotter than your target temp you'll allow the bottom wort to get. That's the best of both worlds. It will heat up to get your grain bed where you want it, but keep you from boiling/scorching wort. Again, you must recirculate.

Below is a snapshot from yesterday's brew day where I had this working. On my first temperature step, I had too low of a recirculation flow and it was taking a long time for the grain bed to heat up. So I opened the valve slightly for the second step and I got a better response. Green is my step target temperature. Red is the temperature of the wort at the bottom. Blue is the bluetooth thermometer with the probe buried in the middle of my grain bed.

1703167834750.png
 
What’s a good value for the temperature differential setting with Bluetooth thermometer? I seem to recall kegland’s video said something like 20 degC, but that just sounds very high. I recently bought the BT thermometer but haven’t used it yet.

BTW, did OP check the calibration of the Brewzilla temperature sensor? The factory setting on mine was waaay off.
 
I did an experimental run and initially found anything over 1F gave me big overshoots. But then in a brew day 2 days ago, I found that 1F differential slowed things down, so I set it to 4F in mid mash and it worked great.

It's does seem that even with that differential, the PID gains seem to keep it curtailed and avoid crazy overshoots. Which maybe I didn't have tuned previously.
 
@Stargazer, the calibration of the temp sensor is not far off, it reads something like 214ºF when boiling.
@micraftbeer, I have been recirculating, although I was not at the moment I took the pic. I did however stir like the dickens - enough to smooth out temp stratification (imo); and working out the mash temp has been a consistent problem, even when recirculating. Sounds like the bluetooth thermometer might not be optional...
 
The Bluetooth thermometer in the mash combined with the sensor at the bottom near the heating elements is innovative. If you think about it, every bottom-heated system has this same dilemma of no perfect place to put the sensor. RIMS and HERMS are better, but you're stuck with one temperature input and have similar control trade-off decisions to make on where to place it. Do you want to risk scorched wort and measure the mash? Or do you want to avoid scorched wort and live with time delays of your mash actually hitting rest temperatures (probably only matters to those of us that do stepped mashes).
 
To me, the G4 Bluetooth probe thermometer option, seems a great innovation. It's the improvement that helps me the most.

With previous systems, whenever doing a stepped mash, I was having to manually monitor the grain bed temperature (with a hand held thermometer), and keep tweaking the system (bottom) temperature to get to the mash right.
Just relying on built in (bottom) sensor, meant after each step, the real mash temperature was way too low, likely for the whole step time.

Micraftbeer's snapshot (above), shows even with BT probe control, and diff overshoots, it takes around 1/3rd of each step period, to get near the target temperature.

I now use run RAPT 'profile' programs, that give an alarm when BT probe gets to 4°C below each mash step target. At that point I start a manual step timer, with 'press a button' set to move to the next program stage.
Now, I don't have to spend ages dialling in all the temperatures every time.

I've got three 'profile' programmes: one single Infusion; and two with different step mashes. Doing manual timing, saves having multiple programs for varying times
The single Infusion program has: Strike 69°C; Beta-amylase rest 63°C; Mash out 77°C; Boil 105°C; Chill 25°C and 0°C. The 25°C step is to sound an alarm near end of chilling. The final 0°C, is it ensure the system won't try to dry heat as I'm draining or when switched back on later for cleaning.

The BT probe is great for mashing, but just gets in the way later, and wouldn't be telling you anything much different to the built in probe anyway.
Fortunately, once the probe is powered down, temperature control automatically switches back to the built in sensor.
DON'T just put the BT probe aside, otherwise the BZ will just see room temperature.
 
I did an experimental run and initially found anything over 1F gave me big overshoots. But then in a brew day 2 days ago, I found that 1F differential slowed things down, so I set it to 4F in mid mash and it worked great.

It's does seem that even with that differential, the PID gains seem to keep it curtailed and avoid crazy overshoots. Which maybe I didn't have tuned previously.
So are you using PID and the BT probe together? The Kegland video on the two seems to suggest it’s either-or and I’ve seen a lot of people say they turned off PID once they added the probe but it seems to me like both together gets you a more accurate temperate and prevents overshoots. I tested just with water and a 7 degree F temp differential and it seemed to work pretty well but could probably be tuned further.

I think I would turn off PID when getting to boil though since I just need to get up there and stay there asap.
 
What’s a good value for the temperature differential setting with Bluetooth thermometer? I seem to recall kegland’s video said something like 20 degC, but that just sounds very high. I recently bought the BT thermometer but haven’t used it yet.

BTW, did OP check the calibration of the Brewzilla temperature sensor? The factory setting on mine was waaay off.
Enzymes are very quickly denatured if they are heated beyond a certain temperature. If some part of your wort is overheated, that part can lose it's enzymes.

The higher the differential setting, the greater the chance of the enzymes you need being destroyed, and an incomplete conversion.
The maximum safe differential setting would depend on flow rate; heater power setting; and maybe PID.

If say diff = 10°C, maximum power, and a slow flow rate, heating would cut out out once diff exceeded but the overshoot might be another 8°C. So potentially 18°C above the target. A lot of the current (step) enzymes could be destroyed, if they remain that hot for very long.

Setting diff = 20°C seems way too high! with overshoots maybe 10°C, so max 30°C over target!

With fast flow and lower heater power, the overshoots will be less; last for shorter times; and wort spends less time in the hot zone (under the bottom / HED).

It would be good to know what PID settings would best control those overshoots in the hot zone /deadspace, but I suspect different flow rates would require different PID values.

I now run with diff = 6°C, the overshoots are around 3°C, so max 9°C over target.

If flow rate is slow, I reduce heating to 30%, but some of the time I'm now using 'outer recirculation' (via outside of the grain pipe) for maximum flow.
I alternate the existing hose between either: recirculation through the mash; and poking it into one of the lifting holes for 'outside circulation' (via deadspace between the walls).
For three reasons:

A) After a grain in stir, I let the bed rest, while the grains swell up. Maybe 30- 60min, before recirculating through the mash. Earlier seems to flush out flour, and risk getting a stuck mash (especially with wheat beers).
Outside circulation at max flow, while the bed is resting, helps greatly with getting to or maintaining temperature, and avoids getting a temperature gradient as the surrounding static water cools.
Instead of the mash being heated from just the bottom end, there's heat from all round as well.
On a step mash, this seemed to about halve the time taken to reach target temperature.

B) Theres 15mm of 'dead' water sitting between outside of unperforated section of the malt pipe, and the outer wall. With my typical 27l total mash volume, the dead volume is just over 4l.
Diluting the mash, with any unused water, should increase mash efficiency.
Somewhere was posted: After the mash ended, the liquid siphoned out from this gap, still looked like tap water!

C) Maximum flow can reduce hot zone temperature overshoot amplitudes and durations, or allow higher heater power while staying in overshoot limits.

Ideally, rather than alternating position and flow rate of the existing hose, I want to always recirculate at maximum flow, with as much as possible going via the grain bed, and the rest flowing outside the wall.
So I've ordered a hose to try an outer recirculation mod - just a silicone hose from the drain tap to one lift hole (which can stay there for the mash). I'll then have two valves to control how the recirculation flow is divided, between bed and between walls.

nb. This wouldn't work on a system, where mod to move the drain tap before the pump has been done.

I've heard that some people allow overflow (through the lift holes) to get a fast flow. But I'm sure, even if using the top plate, some husks would always go with the overflow. Leading to tannins when boiled. Also, the extra weight (by difference in water levels) will tend to crush the grain bed.
 
So are you using PID and the BT probe together?
Yes, I'm using both. I think it helps with overshoots.

I first experimented with just water and played with the PID gains. But with no grain bed, I wasn't using the BT probe, so that was kinda pointless. I moved up to a trial of some out of date malt I had, but I didn't bother crushing it. I just wanted the mass to affect how it responded to temperature. That showed my water-only gains (focused on controlling the temperature just at the bottom) was completely irrelevant for once I was using the BT probe.

Then my third "trial" was an actual brew day with crushed grain. I found my PID gains still worked well, but there was still some different overshoot phenomenna. Probably because even though the thermal mass of grain was still there, crushed grain didn't let wort circulate through as easily and that changed the flow. So now I'm tweaking the allowed overshoot.

There was a good article I found on a generic process for how to set P, I, D. I can't find the exact article, but very similar to this one. I then did tons of repeated temperature steps and looked at the response. First dialing in P. Then I. Then last, D. I'm not going to claim my results are better than anyone else's, or there's some magic here. I just put in the work and saw what worked when I experimented with the flow rate I use.

P=0.38, I=0.01, D=0.5. I currently allow a temperature differential of 4 degrees F (still evaluating that). And the relay delay time (I can't remember exactly what it's called) I have set to something really low like 0.1F. Maybe my relays will hate me later when they burn out, but quick response is what I'm after for good temperature control.

I think I would turn off PID when getting to boil though since I just need to get up there and stay there asap.
I just set the target temp to 230F. Then once it starts boiling, I dial back the power level to get just a recirculating boil with occasional ripples (50% power with neoprene jacket).
 
Hey...Good morning...I heard that it is not necessary to do a whirpool in generation 4...due to the central hole in the pan...is that true?
 
Today I did my 4th batch and it went almost smooth and I feel like I almost ironed out all the corners. First, I went down to 25l batch from 30l. That and malt conditioning seems to have solved my stuck sparge problem that I had before. This time I did Weissbier with 50% wheat. Still can't believe how fast the pipe was to drain😅.

Also, my pump is plumbed on the side (option 2 in the manual) making the spigot gravity fed. Also, I used exactly the same setting on my corona mill as before. Subjectively, the milling was much easier and with much less dust. Nothing seemed to gunk up, however, my corona is enclosed in a custom made cabinet, so there is no easy way to take it out.

Edit: still haven't figured out how to remove treacherous mash profiles from the BZ. Some are lingering there for over 4 months now. It doesn't self delete as devs were suggesting. The whole profile thing has by far been useless.
 
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Hoje fiz meu 4º lote e ficou quase tranquilo e sinto que quase resolvi todos os cantos. Primeiro, diminuí de 30l para lote de 25l. Isso e o condicionamento do malte parecem ter resolvido meu problema de espargimento que eu tinha antes. Desta vez fiz Weissbier com 50% de trigo. Ainda não consigo acreditar o quão rápido o cano foi drenado😅.

Além disso, minha bomba é instalada na lateral (opção 2 do manual), fazendo com que a torneira seja alimentada por gravidade. Além disso, usei exatamente a mesma configuração no meu moinho corona de antes. Subjetivamente, a fresagem foi muito mais fácil e com muito menos pó. Nada parecia estragar, no entanto, minha corona está encerrada em um gabinete feito sob medida, então não há uma maneira fácil de retirá-la.

Editar: ainda não descobri como remover perfis de mash traiçoeiros do BZ. Alguns estão lá há mais de 4 meses. Ele não é excluído automaticamente, como os desenvolvedores sugeriram. A coisa toda do perfil foi de longe inútil.
entupida com tanta quantidade de trigo? Você usou casca de arroz nesta weissbier?
 
Today I did my 4th batch and it went almost smooth and I feel like I almost ironed out all the corners. First, I went down to 25l batch from 30l. That and malt conditioning seems to have solved my stuck sparge problem that I had before. This time I did Weissbier with 50% wheat. Still can't believe how fast the pipe was to drain😅.

Also, my pump is plumbed on the side (option 2 in the manual) making the spigot gravity fed. Also, I used exactly the same setting on my corona mill as before. Subjectively, the milling was much easier and with much less dust. Nothing seemed to gunk up, however, my corona is enclosed in a custom made cabinet, so there is no easy way to take it out.

Edit: still haven't figured out how to remove treacherous mash profiles from the BZ. Some are lingering there for over 4 months now. It doesn't self delete as devs were suggesting. The whole profile thing has by far been useless.
Did the pump not clog with that amount of wheat? ...did you use rice husks in this weissbier?
 
Did the pump not clog with that amount of wheat? ...did you use rice husks in this weissbier?
No, the pump was fine. Also, I started recirculation only at 64C. I did the protein rest for 20 min at 52C. And it was the first time I was actually able to efficiently recirculate. Previously, the mash would stuck and the pump would starve. I didn't use rice husks at all this time as they didn't help much before. Also I have a 2022 version of Gen4. With a really tight bottom screen and two handles on it.
 
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No, the pump was fine. Also, I started recirculation only at 64C. I did the protein rest for 20 min at 52C. And it was the first time I was actually able to efficiently recirculate. Previously, the mash would stuck and the pump would starve. I didn't use rice husks at all this time as they didn't help much before. Also I have a 2022 version of Gen4. With a really tight bottom screen and two handles on it.
You might have done a bit of a glucanase rest at that temperature which would help with your recirculation.
 
No, the pump was fine. Also, I started recirculation only at 64C. I did the protein rest for 20 min at 52C. And it was the first time I was actually able to efficiently recirculate. Previously, the mash would stuck and the pump would starve. I didn't use rice husks at all this time as they didn't help much before. Also I have a 2022 version of Gen4. With a really tight bottom screen and two handles on it.
It's hard to believe that there's no problem with that amount of wheat and no rice husks...but in any case...congratulations
 
One key with the crush for an all in one is to ensure the grain doesn't block the holes in the bottom plate of the All in one. I had a nightmare when I crushed rye to the " perfect" size. Flour will get through and get filtered in the grain bed, big chunks get disrupted with spaces.
But conditioning made a big difference to my crush quality.
 
You might have done a bit of a glucanase rest at that temperature which would help with your recirculation.

Possible, although I routinely do the protein rest. So should not have defined the difference. I attribute the success to the conditioning and somewhat to the reduced batch size.
 
It's hard to believe that there's no problem with that amount of wheat and no rice husks...but in any case...congratulations
I've done two 23L weizenbock batches in BZ 35l g4, same 6.2kg malts & crush both times inc 50% wheat overall (12% of that flaked wheat).
First with B-Glucan and Protein rests was a disaster. Recirc started after first 20min rest. Drain rate was between very slow, and to stuck. Lots of stirring needed. Then got overheat shutdown during boil, after hitting 115°C. Turned out gap between HED dish and base was choked with gum/flour, which burnt on and caused burnt-smoke flavour. Think all the stirring must have let so much flour through, which then setteled out because of slow flow.

Second attempt, single infusion mash, went fine. This time let grain bed rest for 50min before recirculating via the bed. Then a medium recirculation rate for remainder of mash and mashout step, but no more stirring. After mash, the base was virtually clear of debris. Temporalily drained to make sure nothing to burn this time, but needent have bothered.

Still searching for an optimum time, for the initial grain bed rest.

I've now seen, that some places are saying a protein rest with fully modified grains (inc malted wheat) is not advisable. As these already have few large protein chains remaining, and breaking these down can negatively affect the beers body.
So maybe a rest for just the unmalted adjuncts, with an equla amount of malted grain for the enzymes?
 
Has anyone found a way to fully reset the g4 control panel, or at least delete unwanted profiles?

A reset would be handy for anyone where default parameters, such as NTC values, have become corrupted or changed in error. People reporting problems in acheiving a boil could have issues there.

Also are any updates to improve the panel, or RAPT software planned?

A real pain at moment when running profiles, is the very large 'press button' prompt message appearing on panel, that hides the "built in" temperature display value for the whole step (as when Bluetooth probe is on, built in temp uses a small font).
Prompt should be smaller, and re-positioned (or failing that have it flashing on-off).

And in RAPT the BZ device info doesn't show the Bluetooth probe temperature, just the internal sensor. You have to go to the graph (whereboth are plotted) and refresh (to get the present reading).

Profiles: you can't scroll through, to easily view the whole profile, or print them out (to share ideas). It should be possible to include things like heater power, or PID settings.

RAPT navigation is very clunky, and confusing. On some screens exit is the up arrows, on some graphs it's the back arrow; on other graphs & history it's a "+.." symbol.

To show a graph: on top line you have to select the magnifing glass symbol; but on bottom line it's a graph icon. Not actually sure there's any difference between these graphs.

Selecting history, viewed via web portal (chrome on android tablet) if device is in landscape mode the 5 control buttons vanish (off bottom of page), but drag (to scroll up) doesn't always work. Sometimes trying to scroll down, then up clears it (this is never an issue on any other web pages).

You flag which items will appear on dashboard on the equipment screen. Why allow flag to be removed in dashboard (accidentaly when trying to find the right button for something else), it's a pain having to keep returning to equipment, to re-instate.

On the devices/dashboard entry for the bluetooth temp probe:
down arrows - (on rapt app)shows "73°C | 86%" while down arrows - (on web portal) shows 22°C | 81%., when the actual probe temperature is 15°C (which is shows correctly in it's graph). What's that all about?? I've only got one BZ and one Bluetooth probe.

I've seen KegLandHomeBrewCommunity facebook group mentioned, but membership never granted, so not sure if it's active.
 
I've now seen, that some places are saying a protein rest with fully modified grains (inc malted wheat) is not advisable. As these already have few large protein chains remaining, and breaking these down can negatively affect the beers body.
So maybe a rest for just the unmalted adjuncts, with an equla amount of malted grain for the enzymes?
The primary reason I do the protein rest is free amino nitrogen. I practice minimal yeast inoculation (like 1-2 grams of dry yeast per batch of anywhere from 18 to 60L), so for healthy yeast population growth free amino nitrogen is critical. So I am not giving up the protein rest any time soon.

Has anyone found a way to fully reset the g4 control panel, or at least delete unwanted profiles?
It appears that it is not possible at the moment. The discussion with devs on FB groups and in GitLab indicates that there is a major firmware update coming that should allow for manual deletion of the old profiles. The way I understood it from some discussion, currently the profiles should sync with the cloud every week or so, and delete everything what is not there. However, it never worked for me, and I still have them lingering in the menu. Overall, I find profiles to be useless so far.
 
A segunda tentativa, purê de infusão única, deu certo. Desta vez, deixe o leito de grãos descansar por 50 minutos antes de recircular pelo leito. Em seguida, uma taxa de recirculação média para o restante da etapa de mosturação e mashout, mas sem mais agitação. Após o mosto, a base ficou praticamente livre de detritos. Temporariamente drenado para garantir que nada queime desta vez, mas é necessário ter se incomodado.

I've done two 23L weizenbock batches in BZ 35l g4, same 6.2kg malts & crush both times inc 50% wheat overall (12% of that flaked wheat).
First with B-Glucan and Protein rests was a disaster. Recirc started after first 20min rest. Drain rate was between very slow, and to stuck. Lots of stirring needed. Then got overheat shutdown during boil, after hitting 115°C. Turned out gap between HED dish and base was choked with gum/flour, which burnt on and caused burnt-smoke flavour. Think all the stirring must have let so much flour through, which then setteled out because of slow flow.

Second attempt, single infusion mash, went fine. This time let grain bed rest for 50min before recirculating via the bed. Then a medium recirculation rate for remainder of mash and mashout step, but no more stirring. After mash, the base was virtually clear of debris. Temporalily drained to make sure nothing to burn this time, but needent have bothered.

Still searching for an optimum time, for the initial grain bed rest.

I've now seen, that some places are saying a protein rest with fully modified grains (inc malted wheat) is not advisable. As these already have few large protein chains remaining, and breaking these down can negatively affect the beers body.
So maybe a rest for just the unmalted adjuncts, with an equla amount of malted grain for the enzymes?
In the second attempt at resting for 50 minutes, did you keep the machine running without recirculation?................Without rice husk ?
 
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