Brett in secondary. Pitch rate and temperature.

[kangabrew]

Hello!

I've decided to try brett in my next brew. My plan is to ferment with regular yeast, then add brett to secondary. Since I only have one refrigerator dedicated for brewing, and brett, as far as I understand it, takes a couple of months to finish, I rather not use the fridge during the secondary since it will then be occupied! Of course if I ferment it at ale fermentation temperatures, I can still use it for other ale-brews (I have space for 2 fermenters in the fridge). However if I choose to ferment it at room temperature, i.e. outside the fridge (between 20°C-22°C), would that be OK?

How do I calculate the pitch rate? Maybe one vial/smack pack is enough (w/o starter) for my batch size (around 3-3.5 gallons)? Does it depend on the FG from the first yeast?

Should I aerate the beer again when transferring to secondary prior to pitching brett?

 

[JimmyC-BYOB]

However if I choose to ferment it at room temperature, i.e. outside the fridge (between 20°C-22°C), would that be OK?

Brett is a pretty hardy strain. You should be fine. Key here is the same as any other fermentation and that is consistency in temps. If you're going to drift more than 5C I would find a better option.

Should I aerate the beer again when transferring to secondary prior to pitching brett?

I wouldn't. While it will give the Brett a boost you are also opening up the door to for other infections. You're better off with a starter.

How do I calculate the pitch rate? Maybe one vial/smack pack is enough (w/o starter) for my batch size (around 3-3.5 gallons)? Does it depend on the FG from the first yeast?

For a 3 to 3.5 gallon batch, you are fine. Brett is capable of breaking down some of the complex sugars that Sac can not but keep in mind that the secondary can be a very long process with Brett. To really get that final flavor profile it can take up to 2 years. It really depends on what you are shooting for. I would just take the easy road for this batch and then see how it turns out. You can adjust for the next batch.

JM2C

 

[kangabrew]

Oh.. 2 years.. I was thinking something like 3 months. Hehe.

Would it be faster if I use brett in the primary instead, either my mixing it with Sac or using only brett?

 

[beergolf]

You can do brett in the secondary. Let the beer ferment out with sach. Then transfer to a secondary and add the brett. At that stage you can just leave it at room temp and you will be fine. I usually give it 3-4 months and bottle it up. By then the gravity should be stable. The brett will continue to change the flavor in the bottles, but it will already have some brett character.

I would not really worry about pitch rates with the brett. I often just add the dregs from a couple of bottles of Orval to get my brett. Works great.

 

[JimmyC-BYOB]

It takes up to 2 years for the final flavor profile. Did you see Zootopia? Brett is kinda like the sloth at the registry. Painfully slow.
You can do what beergolf mentioned. bottle it up after 3 months and enjoy the change in flavor as it ages.
Brett is a pretty fascinating strain. It just gets more and more complex over time.

 

[beergolf]

Brett is a pretty fascinating strain. It just gets more and more complex over time.
__________________

I agree. I rarely make a saison anymore without brett. Just takes them to the next level. It is interesting to see how they change over time. At 3-4 months the brett character is there, but then it will continue to change.

I have a big pipeline and many carboys dedicated to brett and sour beers. So I can easily wait them out until i think they are ready.

 

[Sourz4life]

It also depends what Brett strains you pitch. I've used strains from every lab I can get ahold of and every one behaves different in primary and secondary. Some are more funky, some have more fruit esters, etc. I would also use a Phenolic strain for primary as Brett converts the esters created by other yeasts into the ester that is favored by that particular Brett strain. Brett is great because there is so much drift when you change small things. You can create more esters by stressing the brett out at a higher temp, not to high of course. Depending on how many complex sugars are left after primary and temps held at will also attribute to how long it will take to finish out. But yea as the others have said it can take anywhere from 3 months to years. I would check out Milk the funk if I were you, their wiki and facebook group has all the collected info on it and are constantly adding.

 

[beergolf]

If you are really interested in brett. Look up the Chad Yacobson videos. Very long but a ton of great info.

[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AjVOzBtE27Y[/ame]

[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Swv294Xkbq8[/ame]

[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9FtfPKRBUhA[/ame]

 

[tagz]

Recommended pitch rates are 0.5-2.0 million cells/ml, but it's really not critical. Some small scale experiments have shown no noticeable difference in flavor profile across a wide range of pitch rates when used as a secondary fermenter.

Do not re-aerated your wort. You risk oxidizing the beer and encouraging off flavors.

I agree with the 3-4 month timeline above.

 

[kangabrew]

Thank you so much everyone!

If I want to use it primary, then how do I calculate the starter size? Online calculators such as mrmalty don't let you enter the initial cell count (which is as much lower for brett yeast).

 

[tagz]

If you use the slurry option (on the brewers friend calc) you can enter volume and density. If you know your starting cell count, just adjust those values until the cell count is where you want it.

For example, the default is 1L and 1B, which results in 1000 billion cells.

 

[tagz]

Actually, now that I think about it, you can also just skip the top section and enter your number below!

 

[sweetcell]

initial cell count (which is as much lower for brett yeast).

depends where you get your brett. white labs is much smaller (2-3 billion), wyest and every other provider that i know of provide a normal pitch (50-100 B). yeast bay varies by type, check their website for cell counts.