Brett Cider

[sacandagabrewing]

hey everyone! So I am doing a cider with White Labs 645 Brett C just to see what happens. It’s only a one gallon batch but instead of making a starter, I just dumped the whole vial in figuring it should be sufficient since it was meant for five gallons. It’s been 24 hours with no activity. Any suggestions or advice? I’ve never used Brett before so I am more than willing to hear

 

[RPh_Guy]

• No preservatives in the juice?
• No sulfite/Campden added?
• Temperature is warm? (White Labs recommend 85°F for this culture)
• The culture was manufactured within 3 months, and you didn't temperature shock it?

If that all checks, just leave it alone. Brett is slower than Sacc.

Cheers

 

[sacandagabrewing]

• No preservatives in the juice?
• No sulfite/Campden added?
• Temperature is warm? (White Labs recommend 85°F for this culture)
• The culture was manufactured within 3 months, and you didn't temperature shock it?

If that all checks, just leave it alone. Brett is slower than Sacc.

Cheers

Thanks so much! Any idea on how long I should let it coast for?

 

[RPh_Guy]

Before you should worry? That's really hard to say.

FYI White Labs Brett cultures only contain approx 17.5B cells (at the time of manufacturer), and also contain small amounts of Sacc.
Let's say the package is a month old. That's about 14B cells, about 0.3M/mL/°P for 1.050 juice. That's a pretty low pitch rate.
A low pitch rate combined with the fact that it's a slow-growing yeast ... I'd guess it'll take at least several days to show activity, possibly longer like a week or more, depending on the age of the culture, acidity, temperature, nutrients, etc.

I would definitely have made a week-long starter or pitched some Sacc with it. Brett-only fermentation is just a silly novelty thing in my opinion (and as I mentioned it's not pure anyway). Sacc provides esters that will increase the flavor from Brett. Sacc helps attenuate faster and more reliably. Sacc provides better mouthfeel. Sacc increases the longevity of stored Brett cultures.

Pitching Sacc now is definitely an option and will pretty much eliminate the risk of mold growth.
It's also reasonable to just wait. It will ferment eventually and as long as there's not mold growing before it starts producing CO2, it'll be OK. You may see a pellicle form before it starts fermenting.

Cheers

 

[sacandagabrewing]

Before you should worry? That's really hard to say.

FYI White Labs Brett cultures only contain approx 17.5B cells (at the time of manufacturer), and also contain small amounts of Sacc.
Let's say the package is a month old. That's about 14B cells, about 0.3M/mL/°P for 1.050 juice. That's a pretty low pitch rate.
A low pitch rate combined with the fact that it's a slow-growing yeast ... I'd guess it'll take at least several days to show activity, possibly longer like a week or more, depending on the age of the culture, acidity, temperature, nutrients, etc.

I would definitely have made a week-long starter or pitched some Sacc with it. Brett-only fermentation is just a silly novelty thing in my opinion (and as I mentioned it's not pure anyway). Sacc provides esters that will increase the flavor from Brett. Sacc helps attenuate faster and more reliably. Sacc provides better mouthfeel. Sacc increases the longevity of stored Brett cultures.

Pitching Sacc now is definitely an option and will pretty much eliminate the risk of mold growth.
It's also reasonable to just wait. It will ferment eventually and as long as there's not mold growing before it starts producing CO2, it'll be OK. You may see a pellicle form before it starts fermenting.

Cheers

I am thinking about following your advice and pitching a Sacc strain. Do you have any idea on the timeframe? As in should I wait for the Brett to get going and do some work first or pitch the Sacc now and have the Brett working clean up?

 

[RPh_Guy]

Really, whatever you want to do is fine.
There's nothing wrong with waiting ... I'm not really sure whether the risk of mold will really increase much at this point if it's under airlock.

I suppose if I somehow ended up in this situation I would pitch K1-v1116 now (esters + high temperature tolerance) and let it ferment at ~85°F for a few weeks and then take it off temp control, top up, and move it somewhere warm (70-100°F) for another 5 months and see how it tastes at that point. Maybe with oak or tannins, depending on the apple varieties.

I haven't really made enough Brett cider to confidently say this is best, but it makes sense to me.