Bray's One Month Mead

[loveofrose]

My recommendations for dry ale yeast are documented in this experiment: https://denardbrewing.com/blog/post/DryBOMMAromatic/

 

[Miraculix]

Thanks Bray!

 

[Lefou]

Bump to the top. This really should have a pin ...

 

[Miraculix]

Bump to the top. This really should have a pin ...

+1 for sticky

 

[Gentle Jesus]

I was intrigued by The Perfect T'ej BOMM and decided to try it.

"Add 3.15 grams (0.7 tsp) Fermaid O again at 1.100 & 1.070."

I understand that you add the Fermaid O just before the sugar breaks because it takes longer for the yeast to react with it (compared to DAP), but when would you expect the mead to 1.100 and 1.070 respectively? 2 and then 4 days maybe, or is there any negative impact on checking the gravity once or twice a day?

 

[loveofrose]

I leave a sanitized hydrometer in the must for constant gravity readings. You can also check multiple times.

The truth is that adding upfront, 2, & 4 Days works fine as long as there are no yeast issues.

 

[BruceH]

My recommendations for dry ale yeast are documented in this experiment: https://denardbrewing.com/blog/post/DryBOMMAromatic/

I have a mead going right now that is based on your experiments. 15 lbs of very thick honey and enough water for about 6 gallons total. Yeast is CBC-1. SG was 1.100, three weeks into it and gravity is 1.010. It's still cloudy but doesn't taste too bad. There is a whole lot of carbonation, so much that I can watch the hydrometer climb as the tiny bubbles rise and stick to it.

I didn't use Fermaid O for feeding. I've been using dead bakers yeast. At three weeks it's just a little hot tasting, I can detect some beeswax and a slight tartness that really compliments the honey flavor.

So far I would say the CBC-1 yeast is working very well.

 

[roweman07]

I have a mead going right now that is based on your experiments. 15 lbs of very thick honey and enough water for about 6 gallons total. Yeast is CBC-1. SG was 1.100, three weeks into it and gravity is 1.010. It's still cloudy but doesn't taste too bad. There is a whole lot of carbonation, so much that I can watch the hydrometer climb as the tiny bubbles rise and stick to it.

I didn't use Fermaid O for feeding. I've been using dead bakers yeast. At three weeks it's just a little hot tasting, I can detect some beeswax and a slight tartness that really compliments the honey flavor.

So far I would say the CBC-1 yeast is working very well.

The liquid yeast is a giant pain in the arse to get out in my area so I plan on using CBC-1 to make a BOMM. I'm going to use clover honey for it to. We'll see how it turns out.

 

[andrewmaixner]

The liquid yeast is a giant pain in the arse to get out in my area so I plan on using CBC-1 to make a BOMM. I'm going to use clover honey for it to. We'll see how it turns out.

I think that on his web site, Bray says that 72B yeast also works well with this nutrient schedule? That should be very easy and cheep to get.

 

[BruceH]

I think that on his web site, Bray says that 72B yeast also works well with this nutrient schedule? That should be very easy and cheep to get.

Just started a cyser with 71B. It takes off pretty quick. Did the first nutrient addition today. As much as I like experimenting I would also like to find the "house yeast" that works with my temps, ingredients, and water.

Have a berry melomel that is just finishing up. Used Lalvin 47 for it. 5 weeks into the ferment and it's fairly clear. Still just a tad hot tasting but also tastes more like wine than anything else.

 

[roweman07]

I think that on his web site, Bray says that 72B yeast also works well with this nutrient schedule? That should be very easy and cheep to get.

Thank you! I must have missed that somehow. I will have to try 72b for my next one since I already have the CBC-1. I started a cider with it a couple weeks ago.

 

[loveofrose]

These days, TOSNA is best for 71B and perhaps CBC1. My testing was was preTOSNA. In fact, I suggest TOSNA for all dry yeast.

 

[roweman07]

These days, TOSNA is best for 71B and perhaps CBC1. My testing was was preTOSNA. In fact, I suggest TOSNA for all dry yeast.

I must have missed this entirely. Does 71B work for the BOMM, then?

 

[loveofrose]

No. With TOSNA, it’s a lot faster than it use to be, but still needs 2-3 months. So far, 1388 is still the fastest.

I’m currently testing WLP001 and WLP002. They fared very well in testing by Billy Beltz. They have a lower ABV tolerance (13%) so Gravity must be adjusted. Still liquid yeast though.

 

[roweman07]

Ah, explains why I didn't see it. Thanks for the quick reply! Always looking forward to see what you publish next!

 

[Gentle Jesus]

So if I wanted to dry hop a BOMM, I was thinking about just adding some hop pellets into a muslin grain bag and put it into the primary for the last few days until it finishes ( like 3-4 days ). Would it be bad to dry hop during the fermentation or should I rack to secondary and then dry hop for a few days? Not familiar with a lot of the science that goes on here, so just wanted to see if dry hopping while fermentation was happening would mess with the chemistry of the hops in a bad way.

 

[Darthbrewder]

Try adding the hops during the last few days of fermentation. The only downside to that I can see is that the mead may turn out more cloudy than you like. Supposedly you will get a different and longer-lasting hop aroma than you would if you waited to dry hop after fermentation is complete. This is all just my opinion and conjecture, though I’ve never hopped a mead before, besides a braggot.

 

[Rougaroux]

Hi mazers! New guy around these parts, and a new mazer as well. I've got my first batch of BOMM going through the final stages of fermentation and I've got a few questions I wasn't able to find out by reading the thread. I'm following Dr. Denard's recipe as closely as I can. The only thing I've done differently is I've been running everclear in the airlock from day one. I live in the Louisiana swamp and fruit flies are a thing when I'm *not* making mead, much less when I have 5 gallons of fermenting must on my kitchen table. First two days I stirred 2x/day to give the yeasties some extra O2. Based on my hydrometer readings they seem happy. Questions are bolded.

1. This mead is ridiculously carbonated while in the primary. I've been degassing daily with one of the degassing tools (the whip-on-a-stick deals from Northern Brewer) once per day until I hit 1.03. I've just been spinning the tool until I accumulate about 1-2" of foam atop the mead. Have I been doing this correctly? The mead is so carbonated it affects hydrometer readings, even after spinning. I *may* have five seconds to catch a reading before the carbonation bubbles start making the hydrometer rise. There is a +/- 10 point differential between hydrometer readings before/after degassing. When should I take the readings? Before or after degassing?

2. This stuff took off like a rocket from a 3-day starter! Temperatures 74-75*F. Dropped 15 points on the first day and averaged 10-12 per day ever since. It doesn't taste great though, even at 1.008. I suspect the carbonation is taking part in this, as it tasted better if I took a sample after degassing. It's not a vinegary taste at all it just tastes...fermented. And carbonated. Like rotten fruit..not horrible but not pleasant either. I do not suspect infection as the must in the carboy is the most beautiful, uniform shade of golden (honestly it looks like I have a jug of orange juice on my table) with no scummy bubbles, tendrils, or accumulation anywhere. I've been drowning everything in 1-step sanitizer. I think I've gone through three gallons (25oz sprayer) in a week. Is that taste normal for a very young mead? I remember Dr. Denard saying that the yeast needed time to "clean up."

3. Racking to secondary: after I get my 3 or 4 consistent hydrometer readings signifying that the yeast has given up the ghost, do I rack to secondary for 30 day aging and get it off of the lees or should i leave it in the primary on the lees for 30 days? I've seen both replies in this thread and I am unsure.

4. As shown in the Northern Brewer kit link above, I have a 6.5 gallon Big Mouth Bubbler primary and a 6.5 gallon glass carboy for a secondary. I am making the 5 gallon BOMM recipe. I saw that extra headspace in the primary is good because it helps prevent MEAs, but what about the secondary? Is the extra headspace going to cause problems/oxidation? It would be no problem to sterilize some glass marbles to fill up the void space in the carboy after racking to secondary, but I would have to go get them, hence me asking you all *before* I need them.


Thanks for all that you do, and thanks to @loveofrose for his wonderful recipe!

 

[Dan_K]

I have something crazy happening. My meads have been taking a LONG time to ferment now that I have switched over to using the Fermaid O protocol. My latest batch has been fermenting nonstop for 2 months. It dries out, so I add more honey. And then I wait, check gravity, and add more honey. Well anyway, I have added additional honey 4 times now, and according to my estimates it should be nearly 20% ABV... which is impossible. And yet, the last time I added honey, it dropped 10 more points in 10 days. Estimated OG is 1.174 and current gravity is 1.022... crazy.

Anyway, it tastes pretty good (a bit dry for the ABV) with no major off flavors. I think it needs another month to condition before it'll be ready. These big meads seem to just take a bit more time. 3 months for the last couple. I had another batch finish around 17% ABV. I don't always like to sorbate/sulfite, I like to let the yeast do it's thing and reduce off-flavors.

 

[Dan_K]

1. This mead is ridiculously carbonated while in the primary. I've been degassing daily with one of the degassing tools (the whip-on-a-stick deals from Northern Brewer) once per day until I hit 1.03. I've just been spinning the tool until I accumulate about 1-2" of foam atop the mead. Have I been doing this correctly? The mead is so carbonated it affects hydrometer readings, even after spinning. I *may* have five seconds to catch a reading before the carbonation bubbles start making the hydrometer rise. There is a +/- 10 point differential between hydrometer readings before/after degassing. When should I take the readings? Before or after degassing?

2. This stuff took off like a rocket from a 3-day starter! Temperatures 74-75*F. Dropped 15 points on the first day and averaged 10-12 per day ever since. It doesn't taste great though, even at 1.008. I suspect the carbonation is taking part in this, as it tasted better if I took a sample after degassing. It's not a vinegary taste at all it just tastes...fermented. And carbonated. Like rotten fruit..not horrible but not pleasant either. I do not suspect infection as the must in the carboy is the most beautiful, uniform shade of golden (honestly it looks like I have a jug of orange juice on my table) with no scummy bubbles, tendrils, or accumulation anywhere. I've been drowning everything in 1-step sanitizer. I think I've gone through three gallons (25oz sprayer) in a week. Is that taste normal for a very young mead? I remember Dr. Denard saying that the yeast needed time to "clean up."

3. Racking to secondary: after I get my 3 or 4 consistent hydrometer readings signifying that the yeast has given up the ghost, do I rack to secondary for 30 day aging and get it off of the lees or should i leave it in the primary on the lees for 30 days? I've seen both replies in this thread and I am unsure.

4. As shown in the Northern Brewer kit link above, I have a 6.5 gallon Big Mouth Bubbler primary and a 6.5 gallon glass carboy for a secondary. I am making the 5 gallon BOMM recipe. I saw that extra headspace in the primary is good because it helps prevent MEAs, but what about the secondary? Is the extra headspace going to cause problems/oxidation? It would be no problem to sterilize some glass marbles to fill up the void space in the carboy after racking to secondary, but I would have to go get them, hence me asking you all *before* I need them.

1) I like to degass until I feel like MOST of the dissolved gas is out. It usually takes 3 times. Do your readings after degassing. Surely all those less dense bubbles hitting the hydrometer could affect your reading, don't you think?
2) It's hard to say what you're tasting. But I think a lot of people (some people?) don't like the taste of dry mead. But it's young so I wouldn't worry too much about it, yet. Also, why are you using so much sanitizer?
3) Are you planning on backsweetening, and if so, how are you planning on doing it? As to the question, I think either way is fine. I don't think the lees will ruin your mead in a month.
4) I think headspace causing problems is a little bit overrated. If you are bulk aging for months it's probably a bigger deal. I wouldn't sweat it too much. There will be a small amount of CO2 production in secondary, and you'll have an airlock on it.

 

[Rougaroux]

1) I like to degass until I feel like MOST of the dissolved gas is out. It usually takes 3 times. Do your readings after degassing. Surely all those less dense bubbles hitting the hydrometer could affect your reading, don't you think?
2) It's hard to say what you're tasting. But I think a lot of people (some people?) don't like the taste of dry mead. But it's young so I wouldn't worry too much about it, yet. Also, why are you using so much sanitizer?
3) Are you planning on backsweetening, and if so, how are you planning on doing it? As to the question, I think either way is fine. I don't think the lees will ruin your mead in a month.
4) I think headspace causing problems is a little bit overrated. If you are bulk aging for months it's probably a bigger deal. I wouldn't sweat it too much. There will be a small amount of CO2 production in secondary, and you'll have an airlock on it.

As to the degassing, yeah that's what I was thinking too. I've been basing my nutrient adds on the post-degas reading but I wanted to make sure I was doing the right thing. I'm using a lot of sanitizer because I am paranoid and the internet said "don't infect your mead."

I wasn't planning on backsweetening it, at least not this one. I prefer the drier meads. As to the headspace question, thanks. I'd planned on just racking to a 5 gallon bucket for cold crashing(and possible superkleer addition later) to save at least one shelf in my fridge for food. I couldn't do that with the 6 gallon carboy and for another $15 over the cost of 1 gallon's worth of marbles I can just buy a 5 gallon glass carboy.

I don't know how it tastes anymore. After it hit 1.004 (May 8th) I sealed it up and haven't touched it since. It's turning a beautiful red-orange color and I'm starting to get antsy. Monday makes 30 days since I've pitched the yeast so I'm considering racking to the secondary this weekend. I haven't had any airlock activity for two weeks but I fully intend to monitor SG daily for at least a week before I bottle. I don't like glass shrapnel as much as anyone else!

Referring to your nonstop fermenting issue, earlier in the thread loveofrose said that you can get the alcohol content stupid high with step feeding. The yeast will make alcohol as long as there's no sugar or the alcohol kills them off but with step feeding you can get their tolerance level higher than it would normally.

Use a different hydrometer too and see if you get a similar reading. When in doubt, confirm your instrumentation.

 

[Miraculix]

First of all, why is this thread still not sticky!?

And second, I have sourced Fermaid O in the UK

I will make a mead based on some nice polish clover honey using the TOSNA method using only fermaid O. My yeast of choice (based on Bray's recent dry yeast experiments) is the Lallemand CBC 1.

I just did a quick calculation on the total amount of fermaid O for a 1 gallon batch, and I came up with about 1.2g Fermaid O in total, assuming the Nitrogen demand factor is 1. This almost looks a bit little to me, can somebody more experienced confirm that this result sounds ok?

Cheers!

 

[loveofrose]

Not enough info. Plug in all your variables here: http://www.meadmakr.com/tosna-2-0/

 

[Miraculix]

Not enough info. Plug in all your variables here: http://www.meadmakr.com/tosna-2-0/

Ahhh, that helps!

Now I got this, which seems to be more reasonable:
Fermaid O Required: 5.36 g
Yeast Required: 3 g
Go Ferm Required: 3.75 g
One Third Sugar Break SG: 1.067

Bray, what is your personal favourite approach now for an Fermaid O only mead (no k)? The TOSNA protocol?

I will use the cbc 1 you tested in your recent dry yeast article. I assumed medium nitrogen demand, is that ok?

Oh, and a last one, I read here something about a ph buffer. A ph buffer is not mentioned in the TOSNA protocol. Am I missing something?

Edit: I could answer at least the last question by myself. K2CO3! But how do I calculate the amount necessary?

 

[loveofrose]

For dry yeast, TOSNA is the go to.

For liquid yeast (Wyeast 1388), This is the new protocol I developed: https://denardbrewing.com/blog/post/Liquid-yeast-SNA/

Buffering pH is always 2 g Potassium Carbonate per gallon (1/4 tsp). Fermaid O buffers well without, but I still add it as insurance.

 

[Miraculix]

For dry yeast, TOSNA is the go to.

For liquid yeast (Wyeast 1388), This is the new protocol I developed: https://denardbrewing.com/blog/post/Liquid-yeast-SNA/

Buffering pH is always 2 g Potassium Carbonate per gallon (1/4 tsp). Fermaid O buffers well without, but I still add it as insurance.

Ok, thank you very much. I am going with the dry yeast I guess.

 

[Miraculix]

Everything is ordered and should arrive at the end of this week. I was able to get some Lallemand abbey yeast for a bang for a buck (50p per pack), expired a few months ago.... but dry yeast is tough.

So I now got CBC1 and Lallemand Abbey and I have to choose 1 of those two. Maybe temperature might be a good criterium to choose? My mead will ferment uncontrolled around 20C, maybe even a bit warmer at times as we are having quite nice weather here in the UK at the moment (no, this is not a joke!)!

@loveofrose Would you prefer, of those two, one over the other for uncontrolled fermentation temperature around 20-22 c (68-72F)?

Edit: One more question (as always), would Potassium Bicarbonate also work instead of Potassium carbonate as the buffering agent?

Double edit: Last question solved:
"What is the difference between potassium carbonate and bicarbonate as it relates to adjusting pH in mead? The bottle I have is bicarbonate.
Potassium carbonate (K2CO3) has more buffering capacity and potassium per weight than potassium bicarbonate (KHCO3). You can use the latter, but you may need to add more. I prefer K2CO3 to ensure adequate potassium levels.



Copied from Gotmead.com - Read More at:http://www.gotmead.com/forum/showthread.php/22964-BOMM-clairification-potassium-carbonate"

 

[DangerClose]

Has anyone tried this but made a melomel or cyser? Also, is it possible to make the above recipe but use fermaid O instead of fermaid k and DAP?

 

[Miraculix]

Has anyone tried this but made a melomel or cyser? Also, is it possible to make the above recipe but use fermaid O instead of fermaid k and DAP?

The most recent bomm version uses fermaid o and only one addition of fermaid k upfront and zero dap.

For the liquid yeast follow: https://denardbrewing.com/blog/post/Liquid-yeast-SNA/

For dry yeast follow the TOSNA protocol and you might want to add 2g K2CO3 per gallon, but this is not 100% mandatory.

Dry choices: https://denardbrewing.com/blog/post/DryBOMMAromatic/

 

[DangerClose]

Thanks for the info. Much appreciated.