Bray's One Month Mead

[SirHC_]

I've done long meads and JAO. This looks interesting enough to try it and not have a 2 yr wait!

 

[Miraculix]

Started my first TOSNA mead

1.2kg of reeeeeeally nice polish honey, very flavourful and just tastes perfect to me (unfortunately I cannot read the label and tell you what it exactly is, I was told, but I forgot, maybe it was clover) in 4l of water. 1.5g K2CO3 (lowered amount because of the buffering capacity of the Fermaid O), 5g CBC 1 Lallemand yeast with Go Ferm rehydrated. OG of 1.1. I might add more honey later, depending on the FG.

5.5g Fermaid O in four additions, first one tomorrow evening, last one on day 7 or 1/3 sugar break, whatever comes first... as CBC1 shgould be really fast, I will put the last addition in at day 5 without meassuring. 1/3 sugar break should be long gone by then.

 

[RPh_Guy]

I will put the last addition in at day 5 without meassuring.

Why not measure it?

 

[Miraculix]

Why not measure it?

Because it is such a small batch and it is such a hustle to get something out + risk of infection.... nope.

 

[RPh_Guy]

I'm still learning but it seems like daily gravity monitoring is the way to go.
With mead, sanitation takes a back seat to making sure the yeast are happy.

Most current protocols I read suggest degassing and aerating twice daily until the 1/3 sugar break.
https://www.meadmakr.com/meadmakr-guide/part-iii-the-basic-recipe/

It is important to degas your mead prior to adding the nutrients to avoid mead eruption accidents (MEAs). It is also helpful to siphon 1/2 cup of your must from the fermenter for dissolving the nutrients before adding them back to the mead.

Between the 24 hour mark and your last nutrient addition, degas and aerate your mead at least twice daily. Your last nutrient addition should occur at the 1/3 sugar break; that is, when one third of the total sugars you provided have been converted to alcohol, you no longer want to add nutrients or aerate your must (if your SG started at 1.120, the 1/3 break will be when your SG drops to 1.080 [dropped one third of 0.120]). At this point you would just degas (similar to aeration, but leave your fermenter capped).

I'm thinking for 1-gal batches people add back the sample pulled for gravity reading. Either siphon or just pour a sample after degassing and then add it back after (use the same sample to dissolve nutrients if applicable). I'd be comfortable doing this.
It also might be possible to put the hydrometer directly into the carboy. At high gravity it won't sink very far.

What spoilage microbes are concerning?
CBC-1 is a killer strain, so other Sacc contaminants aren't a problem, and probably can't compete with your pitch regardless.
Brett is too slow growing to cause a problem. Racking removes nutrients so it can't grow long-term.
Alcohol should kill the other wild yeast genera.
LAB will similarly be nutrient starved and will be slow growing in the low pH range typical of fermenting mead, especially at low cell count and relatively low temperature.
Other bacteria should be killed/inhibited by the combination of alcohol and pH.

Not a mead expert, but just my 2 cents from a microbiological standpoint.

 

[andrewmaixner]

I'm still learning but it seems like daily gravity monitoring is the way to go. With mead, sanitation takes a back seat to making sure the yeast are happy
...
Not a mead expert, but just my 2 cents from a microbiological standpoint.

I'd agree, from my general experience and reading about mixed fermentations.
Even the articles about trying to make a sour or funky mead note that you pretty much have to intentionally take special steps/ingredients to do so.

 

[Miraculix]

I'm still learning but it seems like daily gravity monitoring is the way to go.
With mead, sanitation takes a back seat to making sure the yeast are happy.

Most current protocols I read suggest degassing and aerating twice daily until the 1/3 sugar break.
https://www.meadmakr.com/meadmakr-guide/part-iii-the-basic-recipe/


I'm thinking for 1-gal batches people add back the sample pulled for gravity reading. Either siphon or just pour a sample after degassing and then add it back after (use the same sample to dissolve nutrients if applicable). I'd be comfortable doing this.
It also might be possible to put the hydrometer directly into the carboy. At high gravity it won't sink very far.

What spoilage microbes are concerning?
CBC-1 is a killer strain, so other Sacc contaminants aren't a problem, and probably can't compete with your pitch regardless.
Brett is too slow growing to cause a problem. Racking removes nutrients so it can't grow long-term.
Alcohol should kill the other wild yeast genera.
LAB will similarly be nutrient starved and will be slow growing in the low pH range typical of fermenting mead, especially at low cell count and relatively low temperature.
Other bacteria should be killed/inhibited by the combination of alcohol and pH.

Not a mead expert, but just my 2 cents from a microbiological standpoint.

Oh, I did not know that cbc 1 is a killer strain! I think you saved me from a bad batch of beer

I want to try mixing yeasts, and I have half a pack of cbc 1 left... Wanted to throw that into my next beer together with another yeast to aid flocculation.

Well.... Won't do that now anymore

I agree with the rest. Let's see, I degassed today the first time and already provoked a little air lock fountain, so I guess I will need to get some must out to solve the nutrients in anyway, to make sure the mead does not go full on volcano.

And if I take some out anyway, I can also make a measurement.

 

[andrewmaixner]

Oh, I did not know that cbc 1 is a killer strain! I think you saved me from a bad batch of beer
...

You aren't the only one -- even the yeast labs don't yet tend to publish the K factors on their non-wine yeasts. I asked every lab at NHC2017 and none of their people knew if such a list even existed for beer yeasts (neither the marketing people nor the lab/biologists).

 

[Miraculix]

24h in, SG of 1.086. OG was 1.1..... the yeast is huuungry!

 

[Miraculix]

after 48 hours, 1/3 sugar break has been reached with an sg of 1.068. I just dumped in the remainder of the Fermaid O which made it 3.5 g.

I Calculated 5.5g in total, divided into 4 additions. Now that the 1/3 sugar break has been reached after 48hours, I only had 2 additions.


.....a bit improvised, but was my decision to combine the last three additions correct?

(for those who do math stuff and wonder how the hell I came up with 3.4g when calculating 5/4x3, I basically put a bit too much Fermaid O into the first addition)

 

[Miraculix]

The CBC 1 did chew it all down from 1.1 to 1.0 in less than 7 days. I am now step-feeding the yeast with honey till it gives up. 1.2kg of honey initially, then 50g on top, after one day around 1.005, again 20g of honey on top of it. Fermentation slowed down sgnificantly, I guess the yeast is fairly close to giving up. Let's see what the hydrometer says tomorrow!

 

[RPh_Guy]

but was my decision to combine the last three additions correct?

FWIW I would have done the same.

 

[Miraculix]

My cbc1 tosna mead is going well. Started with an og of 1.1, hit 1.0 within 9 days or so and been step feeding honey since then. I fed it already half of the amount of honey that was initially in the mead, meaning it is as if I would have started with an og of 1.15. And it still keeps chewing the sugar. I am now theoretically at almost 20% abv, hopefully the yeast gives up soon!

I did not expect this from a yeast that was supposed to give up between 12 and 14%.

 

[loveofrose]

Step feeding and good SNAs always make the yeast blow past normal tolerances. Even 1388 will hit 20%! This is why I started adding all honey upfront. Yeast tend to stay around published tolerance if you do.

High ABV with be a bit hot from alcohol. I suggest aging on medium toast American oak for a few moths to mellow it out.

 

[Miraculix]

Step feeding and good SNAs always make the yeast blow past normal tolerances. Even 1388 will hit 20%! This is why I started adding all honey upfront. Yeast tend to stay around published tolerance if you do.

High ABV with be a bit hot from alcohol. I suggest aging on medium toast American oak for a few moths to mellow it out.

Ok, good to know.

My initial plan was to get all the honey in upfront but I was too scared to end up with an overly sweet mead. Next time, I will try to hit it with an og for 14.5% abv from the start plus what I intend to stay as residual sweetness.

The oak is a good idea, I might do that! Somewhere I should have some chips flying around... What amount would you recommend for a medium type of oakiness in 5l mead?

Edit: yes it is a tad bit hot, but really not much, keeping in mind that it is already at 20%. I really like this easy going yeast!

 

[loveofrose]

Chips are far to one dimensional and way too fast. Get cubes or spirals to really get a complex oak flavor profile. Trust me on this. The difference is drastic. Use the chips for your BBQ.

 

[loveofrose]

Thank you, thank you, thank you moderators for the sticky!

 

[RPh_Guy]

Thank you, thank you, thank you moderators for the sticky!

This thread is the BOMM.

Thanks back at you Bray!

 

[Miraculix]

Thank you, thank you, thank you moderators for the sticky!

I "reported" this thread and asked for stickyfying it, as I was very tired of searching for it, each time I wanted to ask something

... And on the side, this thread might also be the most important one in the mead forum...

Glad to see that it worked!

Thanks anonymous mod!

 

[loveofrose]

I just wanted to post an update here since this post was stickied.

Many things have changed since this post began. While this was the first method to make mead quickly, it is now not the only one. With the creation of GoFerm, Fermaid O and the Scott labs nutrient schedule (aka TOSNA), many yeast can be used to create fusel free meads directly out of the fermenter. I even created a Fermaid O protocol that is better than the original BOMM protocol here: https://denardbrewing.com/blog/post/Liquid-yeast-SNA/

I still haven’t found anything faster than Wyeast 1388, but I tend to have a lot more patience now. I tend to use 1388 for experiments, then branch out to other yeast if the flavor profile calls for it. The experiments never end though! For the most up to date info see my website at https://denardbrewing.com

I would also encourage everyone to check out the historical mead series I’m doing here: https://denardbrewing.com/blog/category/historical-brews/ These meads are category defying and truly unique. Finding new and wonderful taste combinations is the adventure of our craft!

Keep experimenting!

Bray

 

[mustardgas]

Is there any substitute yeast for the wyeast 1388? I am not sure if I can get a living liquid yeast this time of year where i live. Will K1V-1116 work?

 

[mustardgas]

Does the first sugar break usually happen on day 3? Also, I only had access to superfood and used it as directed. Will that cause me any headaches? Ferment is going strong and I have aerated/degassed on both day 1 and 2.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Use hydrometer to measure daily

 

[mustardgas]

I have been. Just wondering what kind of time frame I should expect, so I should know if things aren't happening when they should be. I am still a greenhorn at this; but learning fast.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Cool. It'll be fine.

I think around a week is normal(?) but depends on the yeast, temp, OG, etc.

 

[Miraculix]

The breaks happened die me within the first two days, all three. So keep monitoring!

 

[Miraculix]

I tried to ask in a seperate thread, but got no answer.... maybe somebody here can help me out?

I made a tosna mead and step-fed till the yeast gave up (CBC 1), resulting in a 22% mead. I know, sounds unbelievable, but I saw the amount of honey that went in. It is blackberry season in uk and I thought I might collect some and add them to the mead directly into primary ast I want to keep the process as simple as possible.

Would the following process work?

Collecting the berries, squeezing them a bit, adding them to the mead, waiting till the fermentation that they kick off subsides, stepfeeding honey again till yeast gives up, letting it all settle out, bottle.

Everything done in primary, without racking and berries not in a bag.

Theoretically speaking,I don't see problems with this.But am I missing something? Should I put the berries in a bag?

 

[IreWay78]

Bray's? That's my last name! Where does it come from? Just curious. Maybe family in some sort of way.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Would the following process work?

Collecting the berries, squeezing them a bit, adding them to the mead, waiting till the fermentation that they kick off subsides, stepfeeding honey again till yeast gives up, letting it all settle out, bottle.

Everything done in primary, without racking and berries not in a bag.

You'd get much better juice extraction if you mash, puree, or freeze the berries before adding them.

I've added fresh blackberry puree to a cider in primary. Totally fine.
Just make sure there's enough space in your fermenter.

Are you planning to bottle directly from primary? That's something I never do.

FYI, both TOSNA and step feeding are known to allow yeast to go beyond the listed alcohol tolerance.

 

[Miraculix]

You'd get much better juice extraction if you mash, puree, or freeze the berries before adding them.

I've added fresh blackberry puree to a cider in primary. Totally fine.
Just make sure there's enough space in your fermenter.

Are you planning to bottle directly from primary? That's something I never do.

FYI, both TOSNA and step feeding are known to allow yeast to go beyond the listed alcohol tolerance.

Yes, NOW I also know about this tosna and step feeding side effect

I am a bit worried about tannins from the little stones in the blackberries which might get cut when using a blender. Ever heard about something like this happening?