Bought an extract kit by accident

[marc1]

Wouldn't the grains cool it down to mash temp? or not that much

Maybe? Depends on your water volume and grain weight.
My last mash was 1.8 quarts per pound and went from 160.5 to 151.1 after mashing in. It's going to be system dependent

 

[RyPA]

Ok, the kit is coming in this afternoon. If there are any gaps in the instructions I will post here.

Thanks

 

[IslandLizard]

Wouldn't the grains cool it down to mash temp? or not that much

Use a mash calculator. You want to hit your intended mash temp right on the nose.

It's easy to drop the temp, by adding cold water or ice, small amounts of at a time, while stirring well. But it's quite cumbersome to raise the temp, even by 2-4 degrees (you'd need boiling or near boiling water).

Now a mash temp anywhere between 148F and 156F will make good fermentable wort. Even at lower temps than that, just mash for longer times. But beware, don't mash at much higher temps, unless you know what you're doing.

 

[RyPA]

Use a mash calculator. You want to hit it right on the nose. Although it's easy to drop the temp (add cold water or ice small amounts at a while stirring well), it's cumbersome to raise the temp.

Now a mash temp anywhere between 148F and 156F will make good fermentable wort. Even at lower temps than that, just mash for longer times. But beware, don't mash at much higher temps.

Thanks. Aside from my temps, do my steps look correct?

 

[Miraculix]

I would brew the kit "as is".

eta: the other option (substitute a base malt for the DME) was discussed earlier.

I wouldn't, they've put Munich in there, that malt cannot be steeped. It needs to be mashed.

I would exclude the Munich and also the carapils (that one is also not fully converted and it is better to mash it) and just brew it with the dme only.

 

[IslandLizard]

Aside from my temps, do my steps look correct?

These steps: (?)

Here's what I am thinking for my first mash, please someone correct me if I am wrong:

1. Heat water to 180 and add to mash tun cooler and wait until it drops to 170
2. Add grains and stir
3. Check that temps have dropped to 149 to 156. If so, put lid on and wait 60 minutes. If under, add more hot water, if over, can I add ice?
4. While waiting for 60 minute mash, heat sparge water
5. After 60 minutes, check a sample of mash with iodine to confirm completion
6. If complete, vorlauf to get clean wort into brew kettle, if not complete, wait 10 minutes, rinse and repeat
7. Sparge -- add 4.5 gallons back onto drained grain bed, stir, and let sit for 10 minutes
8. Vorlauf again to get ~5 gallons in brew kettle

Arriving at your mash temp has been addressed, use a mash calculator. And if you don't preheat the tun, estimate how much your mash temp will drop due to its thermal mass. Also, much easier to take it down 4-6 degrees than adding them.

"Vorlauf" is drain some wort (1/2 - 1 gallon) and returning it to the tun. Usually 1-3 times until the runnings are clear (enough) without lots of grain bits. Then you drain it (German: "Lauter").

Everything else looks fine, yes.
Ready?

 

[marc1]

Thanks, that's a good idea. I think a book may be a good idea, I've been relying on youtube videos.

Here's what I am thinking for my first mash, please someone correct me if I am wrong:

1. Heat water to 180 and add to mash tun cooler and wait until it drops to 170
2. Add grains and stir
3. Check that temps have dropped to 149 to 156. If so, put lid on and wait 60 minutes. If under, add more hot water, if over, can I add ice?
4. While waiting for 60 minute mash, heat sparge water
5. After 60 minutes, check a sample of mash with iodine to confirm completion
6. If complete, vorlauf to get clean wort into brew kettle, if not complete, wait 10 minutes, rinse and repeat
7. Sparge -- add 4.5 gallons back onto drained grain bed, stir, and let sit for 10 minutes
8. Vorlauf again to get ~5 gallons in brew kettle

Also, you want to start your boil with enough wort to account for losses to boiling and trub. So if you boil off 1 gallon during the hour boil, and lose 1/2 gallon to trub at the bottom of the kettle, and you want 5.5 gallons to go into your fermenter, you would want 1 + 0.5 + 5.5 = 7 gallons into the boil kettle.
Having extra wort go into your fermenter allows you to get a full 5 gallons packaged (there's going to be yeast and trub at the bottom of the fermenter when it's done).
Adjust mash and sparge volumes so that you have enough for what you want. If the kit is only designed to end up with 5 gallons at the end of the boil, your gravities will be off if you try to go larger volumes to account for losses. I'm not sure what the directions say.
You can always set your kettle trub loss to 0 and put 5 gallons into the fermenter if you want, just be aware that you'll get less packaged beer.

 

[Dancy]

After reading this thread, I may just brew the extract kit as-is. does all grain beer taste better than extract? or is it just an experience thing?
It was my thought that extract was always inferior to AG, but it sounds like this is not the case.

Well there’s a thread yesterday about the AHA Home Brewer of the Year winning with an extract recipe so it isn’t the end of the world — though I understand your frustration about buying the incorrect kit.

 

[RyPA]

My full grain Sip of Sunshine kit arrived! I think I am ready to go. I did another leak test on my mash tun and everything is looking good. Going to prep my equipment tonight so I can get right into it tomorrow.



Here are the instructions. Can someone help out with my questions?

1. Mash at 152F for 60 minutes
   1. Can anyone help me with water temp when adding it to the mash tun? I am using a 10 gallon HD cooler.
2. After 60 minutes, add hot water to bring mash in the mash tun to 170F, let rest for 10 minutes.
   1. Does it matter how much water I add when mashing out, can there be too much or too little?
3. I am now at 70 minutes and my mash tun is full of wort (nothing yet in the kettle). Vorlauf until wort is clear and begin filling kettle.
   1. How hot should my sparge water be?

Thank you all!

 

[marc1]

My full grain Sip of Sunshine kit arrived! I think I am ready to go. I did another leak test on my mash tun and everything is looking good. Going to prep my equipment tonight so I can get right into it tomorrow.

Here are the instructions. Can someone help out with my questions?

1. Mash at 152F for 60 minutes
   1. Can anyone help me with water temp when adding it to the mash tun? I am using a 10 gallon HD cooler.
2. After 60 minutes, add hot water to bring mash in the mash tun to 170F, let rest for 10 minutes.
   1. Does it matter how much water I add when mashing out, can there be too much or too little?
3. I am now at 70 minutes and my mash tun is full of wort (nothing yet in the kettle). Vorlauf until wort is clear and begin filling kettle.
   1. How hot should my sparge water be?

Thank you all!

1 - Use a mash calculator. Or trial and error over many batches

2 - If you mash out, use what you need to. Basically, what you use for mash out will be taken away from what you would have used to sparge. After you drain your mash into your kettle, check the volume in your kettle, then add sparge water to the grains to get to your starting boil volume. (i.e. if you're looking to start the boil with 7 gallons, and you've got 4 gallons in your kettle, sparging with 3 gallons should get you there.)

3 - I sparge with room temp water. If you use hot to get to a boil faster, going over 170-ish can extract tannins if your pH is off.

On another note, I'm kind of surprised that Farmhouse didn't let you know what hops you're actually using. Makes it harder to learn about the hops and what they taste/smell like.

 

[RyPA]

For mashing out, is there any risk in using water that is too hot, like 200F, regarding the tannins issue?

For sparge I will use room temp.

Regarding hop types, I guess they want to keep the recipe top secret.

I am impressed with the packaging and shipping speed. I'll likely use them again. It shipped same day and was at my door 3 days later.

 

[IslandLizard]

After 60 minutes, add hot water to bring mash in the mash tun to 170F, let rest for 10 minutes.

1. Does it matter how much water I add when mashing out, can there be too much or too little?

There's really no need for a mashout.

At the end of the mash time, stir the mash well, let sit for a few (2-4) minutes and start your Vorlauf. When running are clear (enough) start your Lauter. Start heating the wort in your kettle as soon as you have a gallon of wort in there and keep adding your runnings to it.

 

[RyPA]

That sounds like a plan, I'll skip the mashout. Thanks!

 

[RyPA]

What does '20 min whirlpool' refer to for the hop addition? Is this after the boil, whirlpool those hops for 20 minutes? Or at T-20, add the whirlpool hops and whirlpool the boil with them?

 

[marc1]

What does '20 min whirlpool' refer to for the hop addition? Is this after the boil, whirlpool those hops for 20 minutes? Or at T-20, add the whirlpool hops and whirlpool the boil with them?

After the boil, turn the heat off and add the hops. Let them sit for 20 minutes, stirring occasionally, if desired. You could actually do a whirlpool, where you stir the kettle vigorously in a circular motion to make a cone of trub in the middle.

People do whirlpool hops at different temps - some right at flame out (so just under 212), others will cool down more to reduce isomerization and allow different hop flavors/aromas to survive.

 

[IslandLizard]

The whirlpool is always at some point after flameout.
So add whirlpool hops at flameout (or later)* and recirculate for 10', 20', or 30', etc. or stir periodically. Then chill down to ferm temps.

* Many brewers will chill somewhat, down to somewhere around 170F-140F, and then add the whirlpool hops. That to restrain bitterness in favor of more flavor and aroma. NEIPAs use huge whirlpool additions at lower temps.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I wouldn't, they've put Munich in there, that malt cannot be steeped. It needs to be mashed.

I would exclude the Munich and also the carapils (that one is also not fully converted and it is better to mash it) and just brew it with the dme only.

FWIW, I looked at the process instructions that the kit supplier has online. For me the instructions where "good enough" to suggest "trusting the recipe".

Given the variety of brands of carapils and munich malts, it can be hard to have a useful discussion about these malts without mentioning specific brands. For example: Briess Carapils can be steeped [link].

 

[Steveruch]

I wouldn't, they've put Munich in there, that malt cannot be steeped. It needs to be mashed.

"Steeping" at 150f for 30-45 minutes will give you the same result as "mashing" at 150f for 30-45 minutes.

 

[Miraculix]

"Steeping" at 150f for 30-45 minutes will give you the same result as "mashing" at 150f for 30-45 minutes.

I doubt that the diastatic power is high enough to cover both the Munich plus the unconverted part of the carapils....

 

[RyPA]

I think I'll skip the steeping step for my extract kit.

I know this is off topic, but for my Sip of Sunshine AG kit I am doing today:

I have my gear mostly ready to go. The one missing piece is determining the volume in my kettle. I made gallon marks on my carboy but with a kettle it's a little harder since you obviously can't see through it. How do you guys mark your kettles where 5, 6 ,7 gallons is?

 

[marc1]

I think I'll skip the steeping step for my extract kit.

I know this is off topic, but for my Sip of Sunshine AG kit I am doing today:

I have my gear mostly ready to go. The one missing piece is determining the volume in my kettle. I made gallon marks on my carboy but with a kettle it's a little harder since you obviously can't see through it. How do you guys mark your kettles where 5, 6 ,7 gallons is?

I calibrated a large wooden spoon with cut in marks for every gallon

 

[RyPA]

My AG brew day just came to screeching halt. I just realized that my brew kettle holds only 5 gallons, and the recipe calls for a 6.5-7 gallon boil. I may just do that extract kit today.

This one looks good, and has gallon markings on the inside. Thoughts?
https://www.homedepot.com/pep/Gas-O...R9cHSZOiDZegQHxS19oaAv_cEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I think I'll skip the steeping step for my extract kit.

There is (always) a 3rd option. In this case, you could do a "partial mash" (e.g. Easy Partial Mash Brewing (with pics)).

In place of one of the three pound packages of DME, mash 4 lb of base malts with the munich/carapils malts. There well be more than enough DP in the base malts to convert the other malts.

 

[hout17]

My AG brew day just came to screeching halt. I just realized that my brew kettle holds only 5 gallons, and the recipe calls for a 6.5-7 gallon boil. I may just do that extract kit today.

This one looks good, and has gallon markings on the inside. Thoughts?
https://www.homedepot.com/pep/Gas-O...R9cHSZOiDZegQHxS19oaAv_cEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

That will work but to help with avoiding boil overs I would go with a 40 quart pot.

Edit: Also make sure you have a plan for cooling down the wort after the boil. You can do an ice bath or use a wort chiller.

 

[RyPA]

Quick question, why does the AG kit need such a larger boil? I thought once the wort comes out of the mash tun it's pretty much the same as extract. The extract kit gets by with a smaller boil with water added later.

 

[hout17]

Quick question, why does the AG kit need such a larger boil? I thought once the wort comes out of the mash tun it's pretty much the same as extract. The extract kit gets by with a smaller boil with water added later.

Because you are converting the starches to sugars during the mash and rinsing the sugars out of the grains to get the proper amount of sugars for your recipe. You then boil down to concentrate the sugars for your batch Size to hit the anticipated gravity of the recipe.

With extract this has already been done for you and you already have all of the sugars you need for your brew. This is why smaller kettles and other techniques are possible with extract.

Here's a good link covering all grain brewing just fyi.

 

[RyPA]

That will work but to help with avoiding boil overs I would go with a 40 quart pot.

Edit: Also make sure you have a plan for cooling down the wort after the boil. You can do an ice bath or use a wort chiller.

Thanks, yeah I am going to hunt one down and hopefully brew next weekend.

Yes, I have an immersion chiller and just bought an submersible pump so I can pump ice water through it. In my prior extract brews, I ran tap water through it, and it took longer than I wanted.

 

[marc1]

Thanks, yeah I am going to hunt one down and hopefully brew next weekend.

Yes, I have an immersion chiller and just bought an submersible pump so I can pump ice water through it. In my prior extract brews, I ran tap water through it, and it took longer than I wanted.

Stirring the wort while the immersion chiller is running helps it work much faster.

 

[RyPA]

I think I'm going to buy this kettle. I just found that they also have one that includes a false bottom and bazooka filter, this could have saved me the $80 and time I spent on building a mash tun out of a cooler . The only thing I think I wouldn't like about that is having to clean out all of the grains when I am ready to boil. Having 2 separate vessels I think makes it easier.

https://www.amazon.com/GasOne-Gallo...rds=gas+one+40+qt&qid=1632071588&sr=8-10&th=1
Mash tun / boil kettle combo
https://www.amazon.com/GasOne-40QT-...9Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

 

[marc1]

I think I'm going to buy this kettle. I just found that they also have one that includes a false bottom and bazooka filter, this could have saved me the $80 and time I spent on building a mash tun out of a cooler . The only thing I think I wouldn't like about that is having to clean out all of the grains when I am ready to boil. Having 2 separate vessels I think makes it easier.

https://www.amazon.com/GasOne-Gallo...rds=gas+one+40+qt&qid=1632071588&sr=8-10&th=1
Mash tun / boil kettle combo
https://www.amazon.com/GasOne-40QT-...9Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

A BIAB bag and a hoist makes the false bottom/filter unnecessary. Mash in the pot, sparge in the cooler?