Bottling, yeast, and high final gravity

[hlmbrwng]

I feel that this is a basic idea that I never wrapped my head around. Here is the setup...

I have an imperial stout. Approximately 12% ABV. Final gravity is 1.038, so it's got a nice sweetness and mouth feel. Yay.

So, at this point the yeast did what it could do to the wort. My question is:
What is the difference between the remaining sugars in the beer and the priming sugar that I will add to the beer. If I just bottle the beer as is, I imagine it will end up flat, even though the final gravity is so damn high. Why does the yeast instead eat up the priming sugar?

I likely am not understanding a simple, yet very crucial idea.

 

[slym2none]

The sugars you have leftover at this point are not fermentable ones. Otherwise, your FG would be lower.

Priming sugar is a very simple sugar, so the yeast eat it and see nothing else edible around afterwards.

 

[hlmbrwng]

Thank you =)

 

[sky4meplease]

A beer that big could use some fresh yeast for carbonating as what is left in the beer will be wiped out from fermentation and the harsh environment inside the fermentor.
As for your priming solution, assuming fermentation did indeed complete and didn't stall out due to the high alcohol environment then as slym2none stated your priming solution will be all that is available to the yeast.
Did the wort get a healthy pitch of yeast and plenty of oxygen?

 

[hlmbrwng]

I pitched 3 packs. Rehydrate with 10 ml per gram at approximately 98F. Brought temp down as much as I could to temp of wort (approx. 74F). Fermented for 10 days at 68F and raised temp to about 72 for the remainder. It's been about 5 weeks and has been at 1.038 for close to 2 weeks.

Aerated with pure oxygen before pitching yeast (about 80 seconds) and again at 14 hours.

 

[hlmbrwng]

A beer that big could use some fresh yeast for carbonating as what is left in the beer will be wiped out from fermentation and the harsh environment inside the fermentor.
As for your priming solution, assuming fermentation did indeed complete and didn't stall out due to the high alcohol environment then as slym2none stated your priming solution will be all that is available to the yeast.
Did the wort get a healthy pitch of yeast and plenty of oxygen?

I think I might pitch some extra yeast.

I know some people would say not to spend a dollar more than one needs to, but I have already invested so much time and money in this beer (upgraded a bit to start going all-grain and having to hold so much grain for such a big beer). It's worth it to me to spend a couple extra bucks, at this point, to make sure it's good. I have been keeping a log of the process and will definitely try to not spend money I don't have to next time around.

 

[sky4meplease]

Adding yeast at bottling time to big beers like this is common practice so no waste of money there.
I don't mind spending a little time or money here and there if I think it will benefit my beer and do a lot of little things most home brewers would consider unnecessary.
It is your hobby. Do what you think is right based on your instincts and experiences, take good notes to help you learn from your mistakes and for Gods sake... Have Fun!

 

[slym2none]

A beer that big could use some fresh yeast for carbonating as what is left in the beer will be wiped out from fermentation and the harsh environment inside the fermentor.

More than likely, that is untrue. I had a 12% barleywine recipe that used US05 and after cold-crashing, it carbed up just fine.

 

[RM-MN]

I feel that this is a basic idea that I never wrapped my head around. Here is the setup...

I have an imperial stout. Approximately 12% ABV. Final gravity is 1.038, so it's got a nice sweetness and mouth feel. Yay.

So, at this point the yeast did what it could do to the wort. My question is:
What is the difference between the remaining sugars in the beer and the priming sugar that I will add to the beer. If I just bottle the beer as is, I imagine it will end up flat, even though the final gravity is so damn high. Why does the yeast instead eat up the priming sugar?

I likely am not understanding a simple, yet very crucial idea.

Think of this beer as a pig roast where you roasted too small of a pig for the number of guests. When there was nothing left of the pig but a pile of bones (high FG of 1.038) the guests were still hungry so you gave then dessert (priming sugar). When they finished the dessert, the pile of bones was still there (high FG of 1.038) but the dessert was all gone (carbonation).

 

[Big Monk]

Here is what I think:

Yes, there is enough yeast left in even the biggest beers to carbonate without additional bottling yeast. But how long is going to take? Are all those little yeast cells up to the task with the same vigor? Cheap champagne and wine yeast at bottling gives reasonable assurance of equally distributed and healthy yeast cells that will carb your beer faster and more consistently than the leftover cells alone.

In ales that are filtered and/or cold conditioned for some duration it may be even more beneficial.

Some people tout a flavor component to re-yeasting bottle conditioned beers but I would think that's unlikely. Do it if you want a faster more consistent carbonation.

 

[slym2none]

If you are planning on aging a big beer, then what's the rush to get it carbonated?

FTR - my barleywine took about 4 weeks to carb up. I was aging it for months & months anyway, so 4 weeks was fine.

But, if one thinks adding yeast at bottling will help ease their mind, it surely won't hurt. I say go for it!

 

[Big Monk]

If you are planning on aging a big beer, then what's the rush to get it carbonated?

FTR - my barleywine took about 4 weeks to carb up. I was aging it for months & months anyway, so 4 weeks was fine.

But, if one thinks adding yeast at bottling will help ease their mind, it surely won't hurt. I say go for it!

Very true. If your aging the. What the hell.

I like to try beers at various stages of maturity.

 

[hlmbrwng]

I opted to try bottling without adding yeast.

I plan on letting the beer sit for 3 months.
Of course, I might sneak a bottle sometime before then!

 

[sky4meplease]

Keep us posted. Curious to hear how it carbs up.

 

[hlmbrwng]

Keep us posted. Curious to hear how it carbs up.

Will do!

 

[hlmbrwng]

Update on beer:

It has been three months since we bottled. We tried a bottle at 4,8, and weeks.
4 weeks: no carbonation
8: tiny bit of carbonation, nowhere near where it needs to be
12: same as at 8 weeks

used aimed for a level of 2.2, since it is an imperial stout

What do we do at this point? Wait another 12 weeks and just forget about the beer for now? Add yeast and recap?
The issue is that I don't know if it's the lack of yeast, not enough priming sugar, or something else. :/

If I add yeast, the new issue is that I don't know if there is still priming sugar available or if we should add another full amount of priming sugar.

Also, I used US-05, and the beer is probably at about 12 to 12.2%

BTW the beer tastes sooo good, even though it's flat. I gotta figure this out! =)

 

[hlmbrwng]

Keep us posted. Curious to hear how it carbs up.

Any thoughts on this? I don't want to do anything drastic if the consensus is that I should keep waiting.

I should note that between month 1 and 2 I took the bottles and stirred up the yeast sitting at the bottom. Maybe I should try this again? Maybe do it every couple of weeks?

 

[Yooper]

Any thoughts on this? I don't want to do anything drastic if the consensus is that I should keep waiting.

I should note that between month 1 and 2 I took the bottles and stirred up the yeast sitting at the bottom. Maybe I should try this again? Maybe do it every couple of weeks?

How much priming sugar did you add, and what was the finished batch size? If you added enough priming sugar, adding a couple of grains of fresh yeast (try wine yeast, which might not die out immediately from the alcohol present) could work. If you were a bit low on priming sugar, maybe some priming solution along with the yeast may be needed.

 

[hlmbrwng]

How much priming sugar did you add, and what was the finished batch size? If you added enough priming sugar, adding a couple of grains of fresh yeast (try wine yeast, which might not die out immediately from the alcohol present) could work. If you were a bit low on priming sugar, maybe some priming solution along with the yeast may be needed.

It's possible I did not calculate the amount of sugar properly, but I triple checked just about every calculation of this batch of beer.
My concern is adding more sugar will eventually make exploders.

(try wine yeast, which might not die out immediately from the alcohol present)

My final gravity was 1.038. I let the yeast sit for about 5-6 weeks. I'm guessing there wasn't much fermentable sugar left. If I use wine yeast, will eat up some of the sugars that were not fermentable by the US-05? I don't want to change the mouthfeel or lose the sweetness.

 

[Yooper]

It's possible I did not calculate the amount of sugar properly, but I triple checked just about every calculation of this batch of beer.
My concern is adding more sugar will eventually make exploders.



My final gravity was 1.038. I let the yeast sit for about 5-6 weeks. I'm guessing there wasn't much fermentable sugar left. If I use wine yeast, will eat up some of the sugars that were not fermentable by the US-05? I don't want to change the mouthfeel or lose the sweetness.

But how much sugar did you actually use? And what was the finished batch size?

I ask because I HATE priming calculators. They have you put in the temperature of the beer, but don't specify it's the highest temperature the beer reached during or after fermentation. Then, they give style guidelines that are ridiculous- 1.5 volumes for a stout (totally flat), and 4+ volumes for a weizen (bottle bombs), so that people who use them without taking all of those factors into account have flat beer or bottle bombs.

Generally, using 4 ounces of priming sugar for a 5 gallon batch for a decent but not overly carbed beer. If you used less than that, especially if much less, the problem is the lack of priming sugar. If you used that amount, the problem is it needs fresh yeast.

 

[ncbrewer]

Generally, using 4 ounces of priming sugar for a 5 gallon batch for a decent but not overly carbed beer.

Are you using dextrose or sucrose?

 

[hlmbrwng]

Are you using dextrose or sucrose?

I believe dextrose. I can't believe I don't have this written down.

 

[hlmbrwng]

But how much sugar did you actually use? And what was the finished batch size?

I used 3.2 oz for a finished batch size of 5 gallons.

 

[hlmbrwng]

I've decided to wait 2 more months since the last sample. I turned the bottles upside down and round and round. I did this between month 1 and 2 and there was an increase in carbonation. I'm going to do this a few times and see if it helps rouse the yeast.

If after a total of 5 months bottled, I will likely add yeast, sugar, and recap. Unfortunately, I waxed the bottles. I did this after the month-two sample, which showed an increase in carbonation. I learned my lesson: do not do anything special, like waxing the bottles, until I know the beer has turned out good.