Bottle Conditioned ‘Bombs’

[Architect-Dave]

I am trying to get a handle on a few beers I have made and want to make again that have seemed to be over-carbonated from bottle conditioning. Do not have a set-up to do CO2 carbonation so i have to bottle condition. I have made a few NEIPAs and a few ‘specialty’ beers from northern Brewer (beers with fruit purées or heavy spice additions). Following Northern Brewers conditioning schedule, I bottle carbed the beers using 4 oz. Or 5 oz. (Depending on their conditioning schedule for that recipe). of corn sugar per 16-oz boiled water for a 5-gallon batch. Some of the beers I used the Brewfather app and it seems to go with just over 4-oz. But, some beers, like the NEIPA and some of the specialty beers that have fruit or additions seem to over-carb. Is there another way of calculating bottle conditioning that would be less aggressive in carbonation or should I just use less corn sugar next time I make that particular recipe that was troublesome? Maybe look into carb drops and use 2 per bottle instead of 3? just looking for a handle here on this…

 

[Zadkiel]

How large are these carb drops. I'm guessing they must be pretty small if you're using 3 per bottle. I use a single 3g drop in a 330ml bottle and a 4g drop (I have 2 different sets of drops) in a 500ml bottle.

How much space do you leave in the bottle? I'm still learning this stuff myself and struggling with under-carbonation due to me being too scared of making bottle bombs and leaving too much space. If I understand correctly (and I'm not 100% sure I am) the CO2 that dissolves into the beer is linked to it equalising pressure with the gas space at the top, so more space = less carbonation and vice-versa.

But if these are standard carbonation drops in the 3-4g range, and you're putting in 3 per bottle, then I think your maths went wonky somewhere.

 

[Architect-Dave]

The carb drops are the Brewersbest drops. they say 3 to 4 per 12-oz bottle. I have used them on other beers and they worked fine. My issue is that the beers that seem to be over carbonated have been the ones I used corn sugar to condition. However, these are just a few of the 50+ batches I made that have this issue. I mentioned the carb drops only because maybe using them would introduce less carb sugar into the bottle. I could easily adjust the corn sugar slurry that I add to my bottling bucket. I mentioned the drops only as an alternative if other brewers had better luck with them.

 

[Brockness Monster]

• Are you sure those beers were completely done fermenting by checking gravity 3 days apart and getting the same reading?
• Did you account for fermentation temp and how much CO2 would still be in solution (Brewfather would have had you enter temp)?
• Is your scale relatively accurate?

Since you have brewed quite a bit, the biggest issue is probably the second question, but Brewfather would have given you a good answer if you put in the correct fermentation and desired volumes of CO2. If you are used to using the drops they might have been undercarbing your beer, in which case you can target a lower volume CO2.

 

[Architect-Dave]

• Are you sure those beers were completely done fermenting by checking gravity 3 days apart and getting the same reading?
• Did you account for fermentation temp and how much CO2 would still be in solution (Brewfather would have had you enter temp)?
• Is your scale relatively accurate?

Since you have brewed quite a bit, the biggest issue is probably the second question, but Brewfather would have given you a good answer if you put in the correct fermentation and desired volumes of CO2. If you are used to using the drops they might have been undercarbing your beer, in which case you can target a lower volume CO2.

Yes on all one and three. Partly the reason why I question this is that Brewfather indicates what to use based on temp and CO2 volume, but a few were waaaay over carbonated. I am not sure if i am inputting that information for your second tip well enough. I will have to look into that more. But, i can tell you the beers that were over carbonated were either hop heavy (with hop stand and dry hopping steps) and those with fruit adjuncts (Oregon fruit purées) or powdered flavorings (like natural vanilla powder).

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

[...] but a few were waaaay over carbonated [...]

[...] i can tell you the beers that were over carbonated were either hop heavy (with hop stand and dry hopping steps) and those with fruit adjuncts (Oregon fruit purées) or powdered flavorings (like natural vanilla powder)

Are you seeing inconsistency in carbonation level between bottles in the same batch?

Or are all bottles in a batch over carbonated?

For each batch that was either inconsistently carbonated or all over carbonated, which technique was used?

 

[Architect-Dave]

No inconsistencies amongst bottles of a batch. It is an entire batch issue. I generally do corn sugar in 16-oz of water, boil it, add it to the bottling bucket and then rack the beer on top of it. I have not used carb drops all that often, maybe 3 or 4 batches, but those were porters and stouts and never had an issue with porters and stouts being over-carbonated.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

One thing to consider: you might not actually have as much beer as you think you do, after accounting for how much gets absorbed into dry-hops and fruit pulp. Adding priming sugar (half-teaspoon table sugar per 12 oz bottle) directly to the bottle before filling and capping is going to get you a good (and safe) amount of CO2 in the beer -- cheaper than carb drops!

 

[Architect-Dave]

One thing to consider: you might not actually have as much beer as you think you do, after accounting for how much gets absorbed into dry-hops and fruit pulp. Adding priming sugar (half-teaspoon table sugar per 12 oz bottle) directly to the bottle before filling and capping is going to get you a good (and safe) amount of CO2 in the beer -- cheaper than carb drops!

Agreed, you pay for the convenience with the carb drops, and honestly. I do not like the idea that they are potentially non-sanitary as opposed to boiling corn sugar in water…although I never had an issue, or heard of an issue, with infections due to carb drop use. As for adding sugar directly to the bottle, I am not crazy about that idea since I bottle 12-oz, 16-oz, and 20-oz bottles when I bottle my batches. Interesting point, tho about the changes in final beer volume…

 

[Indian_villager]

One thing to consider: you might not actually have as much beer as you think you do, after accounting for how much gets absorbed into dry-hops and fruit pulp. Adding priming sugar (half-teaspoon table sugar per 12 oz bottle) directly to the bottle before filling and capping is going to get you a good (and safe) amount of CO2 in the beer -- cheaper than carb drops!

Does your fermenter have volume markings? You should really be adjusting down the amount of sugar for the amount you have going into bottles. As in if you were supposed to use 4oz for 5 gallons, but due to the heavy dry hop in NEIPA you only got 4 gal of beer to go into bottles you should only be adding 3.2oz.

 

[Snuffy]

I used to do the 5 oz of corn sugar in the bucket when I bottled and it usually worked out fine. That was once the fermentation had completely stopped and been steady FG for a week or so. I bottle a couple bottles from each batch now before kegging the rest. Partly to assure headspace in the keg and also to have a couple of portables for sharing or gifting. I have used fizz drops for years and never had issues. I per pint and 2 per 750ml. The bottles sit for at least 2 weeks before I touch them and sometimes for several months. I have used both Cooper's and Brewer's Best with good results. All I do is use clean hands and plink them in just before filling a bottle from the valve. Cap on foam. No worries. My experience with bombs was due mostly to poor choice in bottles. Most American bottles are too cheap for homebrew bottles. I stick with European bottles and clamp-tops. I also have the rig to cap with the larger 28mm(?) caps. (Thanks, Hoppy2). That is the shiznit.

 

[Architect-Dave]

Does your fermenter have volume markings? You should really be adjusting down the amount of sugar for the amount you have going into bottles. As in if you were supposed to use 4oz for 5 gallons, but due to the heavy dry hop in NEIPA you only got 4 gal of beer to go into bottles you should only be adding 3.2oz.

This is a good point. Both the fermenter and bottling bucket have marks. However, I can say that when i bottle my beers, I am off by maybe 3 or 4 bottles per batch. Could that volume inconsistency really make the difference between a bottle bomb and a normal carbed bottle?

 

[Indian_villager]

This is a good point. Both the fermenter and bottling bucket have marks. However, I can say that when i bottle my beers, I am off by maybe 3 or 4 bottles per batch. Could that volume inconsistency really make the difference between a bottle bomb and a normal carbed bottle?

When you say off by 3-4 bottles, do you mean you end up with 45-44 bottles finished? What a bunch of these recipes from vendors fail to take into account is that everybody's process is different, based on kettle sizing, boil off rate, transfer losses, etc. When I was still bottle conditioning i would transfer the beer into my bottling bucket, and based on the volume I ended up with I would then measure my sugar for conditioning. There are precautions you can take to limit the amount of o2 damage that can happen here. Feel free to toss in a little bit of ascorbic acid into your bottling bucket before you rack your beer in.

 

[Architect-Dave]

When you say off by 3-4 bottles, do you mean you end up with 45-44 bottles finished?

Correct. I get anywhere from 42 to 46 bottles depending on how many 12-oz bottles I use with the 16-oz and 20-oz bottles I have available on-hand. Also, there is some final fluctuation with the amount of finished beer in the bottling bucket. But, I would say the final volume of beer being bottles is fairly consistent from batch to batch.

 

[Indian_villager]

Correct. I get anywhere from 42 to 46 bottles depending on how many 12-oz bottles I use with the 16-oz and 20-oz bottles I have available on-hand. Also, there is some final fluctuation with the amount of finished beer in the bottling bucket. But, I would say the final volume of beer being bottles is fairly consistent from batch to batch.

If you are down at 52 you are missing over half a gallon.

 

[bike2brew]

I bottle carb exclusively. 3/4 tsp corn sugar per 12 oz bottle and store @ 68-69 F for 10-14 days

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I bottle carb exclusively. 3/4 tsp corn sugar per 12 oz bottle and store @ 68-69 F for 10-14 days

I also bottle carb exclusively.

One bottle size, one amount of sugar per bottle, no need to be concerned about the amount of beer to be bottled.

If I was using multiple bottle sizes (say 12 oz glass and 16oz pet), I would add different amounts of sugar based on bottle size. Again, no need to be concerned about the amount of beer to be bottled.

FWIW: my batch size is 2.5 gal. So dosing individual bottles isn't a problem. My guess is that if I were brewing 5 gal batches, I'd move to kegs.

 

[SFC Rudy]

Are your bottles clean? I mean using a brush clean?

I got lazy for awhile and only rinsed after the pour, sanitized and refilled. After a couple of uses I started getting gushers. One day I was cleaning some nasty bottles and decided to clean my rinsed bottles and was surprised at how dirty my cleaning solution got with those bottles. Beer stone and other crap does start to build up.

Now I use a brush in my drill and no longer have gushers.

 

[ncbrewer]

some beers, like the NEIPA and some of the specialty beers that have fruit or additions seem to over-carb.

I would say the final volume of beer being bottles is fairly consistent from batch to batch.

These two statements steer me toward the idea of fermentation not being complete when you bottle, because NEIPAs could cause hop creep. The large amount of dry hops could get fermentation going again. I don't make fruit beers and don't know how that would figure in - maybe the fruit added later continues fermenting longer, but that's just a guess on my part.

The dirty bottle idea also makes good sense, but why just with NEIPAs and fruit beer? Maybe coincidence?

 

[Architect-Dave]

Are your bottles clean? I mean using a brush clean?

I got lazy for awhile and only rinsed after the pour, sanitized and refilled. After a couple of uses I started getting gushers. One day I was cleaning some nasty bottles and decided to clean my rinsed bottles and was surprised at how dirty my cleaning solution got with those bottles. Beer stone and other crap does start to build up.

Now I use a brush in my drill and no longer have gushers.

Yes. I wash them with PBW, rinse Tish hot water, drain in a bottle holder, hit them with Start San before bottling. But, this is not a bottle-to-bottle thing. It is consistent along the entire batch of a beer recipe.

 

[Architect-Dave]

These two statements steer me toward the idea of fermentation not being complete when you bottle, because NEIPAs could cause hop creep. The large amount of dry hops could get fermentation going again. I don't make fruit beers and don't know how that would figure in - maybe the fruit added later continues fermenting longer, but that's just a guess on my part.

The dirty bottle idea also makes good sense, but why just with NEIPAs and fruit beer? Maybe coincidence?

I think you are correct. Your statement and those of previous replies have me thinking that i may have bottled some of these too soon, even though gravity / hydrometer readings were consistent. So, I will look deeper into this.