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Bottle condition after cold crash?

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StankAle

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Hey everyone,
I searched the forums before posting, so you EAC's back off!!!! :cross:

Every posting I saw consisted of kegging after the cold crash and keeping the beer at fridge temps.
I am about to cold crash a pale ale I made that is going to end up in bottles for a trip.

I stopped myself and decided to post here because I realized that the beer will have to carb at room temps.

So, if I cold crash the beer at 34F for a few days and then bottle it will there be any problems? I am taking this beer down to the family, the last thing I want to do is serve lousy beer!!!
Thanks all.
 

bigben

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I disagree.

You will have issues with carbing the bottles. If you cold crash, all the yeast will fall out of suspension. Then when you prime, there will be no yeast left to consume the priming sugar.
 

brewt00l

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bigben said:
I disagree.

You will have issues with carbing the bottles. If you cold crash, all the yeast will fall out of suspension. Then when you prime, there will be no yeast left to consume the priming sugar.
The beer I just opened earlier tonight disagrees with you.:mug:
 

acr4

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I think the answer depends on a few variables:

1. OG->FG of the beer: If there's a high alcohol content, you may want to start with some fresh yeast, as the old ones are pretty worn out

2. Yeast flocculation: If you used a highly flocculant yeast, you may want to start with some fresh yeast, as there may be none left in the beer.

3. Age of beer: If it's been a long time since you pitched the first yeast, you may want to start with some fresh yeast, as the first ones may be old or missing.

4. Size of bottle: Apparently, bigger bottles take longer to carbonate (headspace/beer volume ratio, although I'm not entirely convinced on this one yet). So, assuming this is correct, bigger bottles need more time, which may in turn mean they need healthier yeast.

I bottled a 9.6% barleywine (two weeks ago) that was fermented with a fairly flocculant yeast. I cold-crashed it for 2-3 days after four weeks of primary fermentation + 6 weeks of secondary fermentation. At this point the beer was pretty clear and headed for big bottles, so I pitched some dry yeast before bottling.
 

EvilTOJ

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bigben said:
I disagree.

You will have issues with carbing the bottles. If you cold crash, all the yeast will fall out of suspension. Then when you prime, there will be no yeast left to consume the priming sugar.
I have to disagree with this as well. I've left carboys in the fridge for weeks to let everything settle out and once it was bottled it carbonated fine.
 

conpewter

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Back when I'd bottle I also would cold crash a beer for a week before bottling and it carbs just fine. Maybe on a high gravity beer it might take an extra week or so, but it will carb.

A lot of people will bottle lagers... they've sat for a month or more at 34 degrees, they still bottle condition without the addition of fresh yeast.
 

Got Trub?

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+1 on carbing fine after cold crashing (even after fining with gelatin). You may need an extra week or two but the finished beer is that much better. Short of filtering or REALLY long conditioning there is always some viable yeast still in suspension.

GT
 

bigben

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interesting. I posted this same question a few months back and everyone told me it was a bad idea to bottle after cold crashing. Where were all of you then???? :)
 
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StankAle

StankAle

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Thanks for the info guys.

I assume the same rules apply for kegging after a cold crash too.


I was under the impression that once beer gets cold it has to stay cold. This forum has put a lot of myths to rest.
 

brewt00l

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bigben said:
interesting. I posted this same question a few months back and everyone told me it was a bad idea to bottle after cold crashing. Where were all of you then???? :)
Never saw that thread.
 

bigben

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I must be losing it. I can't find the post anywhere. Maybe I didn't even post it...

But I do remember thinking this same exact thing, and I was pretty sure I read somewhere(could've been other forums) that it may lead to trouble with carbing.

Oh well, Im glad it doesn't because I want to crash cool before bottling. Sorry for the mis-information!
 

tranceamerica

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bigben said:
I disagree.

You will have issues with carbing the bottles. If you cold crash, all the yeast will fall out of suspension. Then when you prime, there will be no yeast left to consume the priming sugar.
I find that the beers I cold crash DO take longer to carb. But the do carb just fine. On the other hand, the beers I don't cold crash carb quicker, but take longer to clear.

I don't mind a bit of yeast in my beer, nor do I worry if it's not perfectly clear. Therefore, I don't cold crash unless I want to get the carboy out of the kitchen, and into the garage just to keep it out from underfoot. SWMBO appreciates this.
 

spiffcow

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Well I've got a crash-cooled Green Flash clone that's been sitting in my kitchen nook for 2 weeks now, and it seems to be stuck at about 1.5 volumes of carbonation (guesstimate). I'm blaming on the crash cooling, because there's no other reason it should be taking so long to carbonate.
 

TANSTAAFB

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I have searched the forums and get a fair consensus that bottle conditioning after cold crashing is no problem. However, I cannot find anything on whether it is better to allow beer to come back to room temp before bottling or bottle cold. In addition, beersmith reduces the amount of priming sugar considerably at lower temp. Fixin to bottle a cream ale that is at 38* but will allow to carb at room temp. Should I use the normal amount of sugar, or reduce because of bottling temp?
 

TANSTAAFB

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I think I found my answer...in the science forum... DO NOT GO THERE UNPREPARED, IT IS FN SCARY.

After wading through pages of arguments about Henry's Law and Boyle's Law and residual CO2, I finally came upon something useful...

I wanted to know what temp to input into Beersmith to calculate the amount of priming sugar to use to bottle condition my beer. Fermentation temp (maf 70*), current temp (cold crashed to 38*), or the temp I would be bottle conditioning at (here the same as ferm temp, about 70*)? :confused:

Here is the response from Beer Alchemy

"The reason for using the fermentation temperature is that it’s the limit to the amount of residual CO2 in the beer left after fermentation (CO2 is less soluble at higher temps). So we start with the residual CO2 and then work out how much CO2 we need to reach the desired carbonation. If you used the temperature you crash cooled to then the calculated residual CO2 would be higher but as it would be crash cooled there would be very little yeast activity to create additional CO2. So your beer when primed would be undercarbonated.

The CO2 in the head space could be absorbed but it’s unlikely to make much difference on the calculations unless the CO2 was being replenished as it was absorbed (as when force carbonating in keg).

Cheers

Steve Flack
Kent Place Software"

and here is the best summary by JLem

"if you ferment completely at 70, and then cold crash, use 70 for determining carbonation. If you use the cold crashed 36 degrees your beer will likely be undercarbonated because there isn't as much residual CO2 in there as the chart says (because all the CO2 was produced at 70 degrees and 70 degree liquid cannot hold as much CO2, most of it was outgassed. Cold crashing for a week will result in minimal additional CO2 absorption."

That was painful :D

Soooo, I will use the normal amount (5oz.) of priming sugar to bottle condition my crash cooled cream ale to 2.7 volumes.

Moderators, PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD MAKE THIS INFO AVAILABLE IN A STICKY OR THE WIKI OR ANYWHERE THAT KEEPS THE REST OF US BEER GEEKS FROM HAVING TO TREAD WHERE ONLY THE UBER BEER GEEKS OUGHT DARE!!!!
 

meyerman

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After several months I finally figured out the mystery of bottle conditioning problems with my high gavity beer. It is not the final gravity that inhibited the final fermentation in the bottle, or the yeast type. The triple used Trappist Brewers yeast and the IPA's used Nottingham ale yeast. It was the fact that it was cold crashed.

I inadvertently did a design of experiments: Cold Crash vs No Cold Crash, Nottingham Ale Yeast vs Belgium Trappist Yeast, and Alcohol by volume. I really need one more experiment before I declare success ( a low ABV and Cold Crash ).

Apparently Cold Crashing causes the yeast to go dormant. When you add the priming sugar to carbonate the beer, the dormant yeast is sleepy. The only way to get bottle conditioning to work is raise the temperature and shake up the bottles.


Batch # ABV Yeast Cold-Crash Bottle Conditioning time
1 11% Trappist YES > 2months @ 58F
2 9.7% N Ale NO < 2 weeks @ 58F
3 9% N Ale YES > 2 weeks @ 58F & no carb

I am going to move the batch #3 bottles to a higher temperature and wait a couple of weeks. My cellar is about 58F and too low for the yeasties to wake up
 

ThomasPaine

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I wouldn't shake the bottles. Have you tried warming them up to room temperature without shaking?
 

kh54s10

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Apparently Cold Crashing causes the yeast to go dormant. When you add the priming sugar to carbonate the beer, the dormant yeast is sleepy. The only way to get bottle conditioning to work is raise the temperature and shake up the bottles.


Batch # ABV Yeast Cold-Crash Bottle Conditioning time
1 11% Trappist YES > 2months @ 58F
2 9.7% N Ale NO < 2 weeks @ 58F
3 9% N Ale YES > 2 weeks @ 58F & no carb

I am going to move the batch #3 bottles to a higher temperature and wait a couple of weeks. My cellar is about 58F and too low for the yeasties to wake up
Your problem has nothing to do with cold crashing. It has to do with your conditioning temperatures. There is plenty of yeast in the bottles. They will do the work but not at that temperature.

Bottle condition at about 70 degrees for 3 weeks and you should have no problems. Some big beers might take a bit longer.
 

meyerman

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Check Batch #2.

It was bottle conditioned in less than 2Weeks with 58F storage (Also the basement was maybe more in the low 60's).. I moved the cold crashed beers on top of the fridge where the heat exchanger coils emmit a little extra heat and daytimes can get into the low 80's ( a little high for my comfort ).

I do believe that shaking was required too, it like making a yeast starter. A couple of bottles were not shaken and are not bottle conditioned yet (another design of experiments ).
 

ThomasPaine

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I do believe that shaking was required too, it like making a yeast starter. A couple of bottles were not shaken and are not bottle conditioned yet (another design of experiments ).[/QUOTE]

Yeast starters need to be stirred or shaken to impart O2 and prevent settling. O2 in a finished beer is bad and will result in oxidation. I think most experienced brewers will tell you to avoid shaking a freshly bottled beer. I'm sure 99 percent of the time it won't matter though, so I will shut up now.
 

doug293cz

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I do believe that shaking was required too, it like making a yeast starter. A couple of bottles were not shaken and are not bottle conditioned yet (another design of experiments ).
Yeast starters need to be stirred or shaken to impart O2 and prevent settling. O2 in a finished beer is bad and will result in oxidation. I think most experienced brewers will tell you to avoid shaking a freshly bottled beer. I'm sure 99 percent of the time it won't matter though, so I will shut up now.[/QUOTE]

If you're not using oxygen absorbing caps, then shaking won't get you any more oxidation than not shaking. The O2 in the bottle will eventually react with the beer. Getting the O2 dissolved earlier might allow the yeast to do some aerobic metabolism, and convert some of the O2 to CO2 (or maybe it's H2O, I'm not that familiar with the products of aerobic metabolism), and get less oxidation over time.

Brew on :mug:
 
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