Boil kettle condenser - no overhead ventilation needed

[cegan09]

well I redid my parts lists, and after making sure I had all the right adapters and little pieces for all the plumping on the water supply it makes more sense to just order Bobby's. My DIY is about the same price, but it won't be as nice and will still take time on my end to fab a few bits. Looks like I'll be ordering tonight after work, hopefully they aren't sold out by then.

I'll be doing a lid mount version on the 11gal kettle I'm putting together.

 

[BrunDog]

I agree that adequate pressure and flow should be evaluated. I suggest however that you do not use a valve on the inlet of the sprayer to reduce flow. First, it will be very hard to throttle appropriately as the flow is slow and a large orifice valve will be impossible to dial in (unlike a needle valve) and second, because these sprayers need as much pressure as possible to create good atomization. If reducing flow rate is a goal, pick a smaller sprayer.

 

[schematix]

I have an unused 1/2" NPT port on the top of my kettle... if i were to use a 1/2" NPT to 1.5" TC adapter, would this still work or is the hole too small?

 

[Blazinlow86]

For those concerned that their TC port is too low to handle large boils or mashes:

You can "elevate" the port through the use of two 90-degree elbows. Interestingly, it allows a lot of flexibility in the location of the steam catcher.

View attachment 587818

Hmmm interesting. I was originally interested in this project but the amount of space it needed was abit of a deal breaker as my kettles usually only has about 2 inches from the top on a full batch. With the elbows is it possible to fill past the port in the top of the kettle? Another question is I generally boil off about 2 gallon per hour any ideas how much waste water that would create? I do not have a drain close enough currently so would have to collect the waste water in buckets. Cheers

 

[schematix]

Impulse bought.

Hoping this helps with boil smell issue in basement, even with ventilation.

 

[Blazinlow86]

Impulse bought.

Hoping this helps with boil smell issue in basement, even with ventilation.

I like that smell..... Lol

 

[schematix]

The smell doesn’t bother me but the wife nags endlessly about it.

Endlessly.

 

[Elky]

Hmmm interesting. I was originally interested in this project but the amount of space it needed was abit of a deal breaker as my kettles usually only has about 2 inches from the top on a full batch. With the elbows is it possible to fill past the port in the top of the kettle? Another question is I generally boil off about 2 gallon per hour any ideas how much waste water that would create? I do not have a drain close enough currently so would have to collect the waste water in buckets. Cheers

If the liquid level is higher than the top of the port it will not work because there would be no pathway for the steam. The amount of water generated will be equal to boil off plus the 6 or 9 gallons per hour generated by the sprayer

 

[cbier60]

I generally boil off about 2 gallon per hour any ideas how much waste water that would create? I do not have a drain close enough currently so would have to collect the waste water in buckets

I guarantee you that your boil-off rate will decrease dramatically; I think mine is 1/2 to 1/3 what it was when I was boiling with an open pot. [I went back and checked, and my boil-off/evaporation reduced from 1.7G/hr to 0.75.] I think I have had 8-10 gallons of waste water in an hour on my last 2 brews of ~10 gallons of wort at flameout. I have a 1.5" TC on the side of my 20G Spike kettle with a 6gph nozzle, although I think my water pressure may be 50-60 psi.

Hoping this helps with boil smell issue in basement, even with ventilation.

It absolutely does. My wife has raised hell in the past,and hardly knows I'm brewing down there now.

 

[Blazinlow86]

If the liquid level is higher than the top of the port it will not work because there would be no pathway for the steam. The amount of water generated will be equal to boil off plus the 6 or 9 gallons per hour generated by the sprayer

Yea thats what I was thinking. I guess I could put it in the lid but it might be slightly cumbersome when adding hops etc

 

[mongoose33]

Yea thats what I was thinking. I guess I could put it in the lid but it might be slightly cumbersome when adding hops etc

I originally planned on a lid port but drew the same conclusion you did, i.e., it'd be harder to maneuver.

 

[mongoose33]

Hmmm interesting. I was originally interested in this project but the amount of space it needed was abit of a deal breaker as my kettles usually only has about 2 inches from the top on a full batch. With the elbows is it possible to fill past the port in the top of the kettle? Another question is I generally boil off about 2 gallon per hour any ideas how much waste water that would create? I do not have a drain close enough currently so would have to collect the waste water in buckets. Cheers

@Elky explained the first part. As far as how much waste water, it's whatever the GPH is for your water spray plus what you condense.

The reason I have the elbows is there are instances where I have to preboil about 8.5 gallons of water, which runs up pretty close to my TC port. The elbows will allow me a little slop in the system, if you will, whereas without them I'd lose some of that boiling water out of the port.

 

[Blazinlow86]

@Elky explained the first part. As far as how much waste water, it's whatever the GPH is for your water spray plus what you condense.

The reason I have the elbows is there are instances where I have to preboil about 8.5 gallons of water, which runs up pretty close to my TC port. The elbows will allow me a little slop in the system, if you will, whereas without them I'd lose some of that boiling water out of the port.

I think I'd need to go to a larger kettle but that brings its own set of issued. Thats my normal preboil of 20.5 gallons

 

[ancientmariner52]

I think I'd need to go to a larger kettle but that brings its own set of issued. Thats my normal preboil of 20.5 gallons View attachment 587908

Won't our pre-boil volumes need to be smaller, on account of the lower boil-off volume? So perhaps those existing ports may not be too low.

 

[Blazinlow86]

Good point it may work but it would still be very close. Not sure I wanna take the gamble in the case it didn't work out. What's the smallest sized tclamp this would work with? Cheers

 

[tripleD]

I've been intrigued by this idea, but I think we may have run into a snag--depending on the rate at which waste water will flow. I have a 50 gpd membrane, but on a good day it might do 1.5 gallons per hour--depends on how warm the water is. If I have a 4-1 rejection rate, in an hour I'm only producing maybe 6 gallons of reject water. I ordered the 9 gph sprayer, but I'm hoping I can turn that down a bit with the valve. If not, I may not be able to produce enough reject water.

Just a thought such that anyone planning this make sure their system has the waste necessary to do this.

You can adjust the flow on the waste line by adjusting the flush valve. If you crack that valve slightly, when you want to condense steam, you will increase the pressure and flow on your waste line. You will be making slightly less RO water if you do so, but it alleviates the flow issue you mentioned.

 

[mongoose33]

I think I'd need to go to a larger kettle but that brings its own set of issued. Thats my normal preboil of 20.5 gallons View attachment 587908

I'm thinking if you put that TC port as high as possible and used those 90-degree elbows, it would work.

 

[Blazinlow86]

I'm thinking if you put that TC port as high as possible and used those 90-degree elbows, it would work.

Are you using a 1.5 tclamp? In your picture it looks alot bigger. If 1.5 is all that's needed plus the reduction in boiloff it might be doable. I also tinker with hydroponics and not having to have so many exhausts out the window would be Nice. Cheers

 

[mongoose33]

Are you using a 1.5 tclamp? In your picture it looks alot bigger. If 1.5 is all that's needed plus the reduction in boiloff it might be doable. I also tinker with hydroponics and not having to have so many exhausts out the window would be Nice. Cheers

Yep, they're 1.5 tclamps. This is in anticipation of BobbyM's kit, which requires a 1.5 TC port.

 

[cbier60]

Won't our pre-boil volumes need to be smaller, on account of the lower boil-off volume? So perhaps those existing ports may not be too low.

As I clarified above, my boil-off/evaporation volume has decreased to less than 50% the open burner rate.

I have an unused 1/2" NPT port on the top of my kettle... if i were to use a 1/2" NPT to 1.5" TC adapter, would this still work or is the hole too small?

What's the smallest sized tclamp this would work with? Cheers

Earlier in this thread are references to an option of this design offered by Brew Boss. I think they use a 1/2" camlock to attach to the kettle. I'm not sure anyone here will guarantee that 1/2" port will suffice, but if Brew Boss is still selling it this way, I would assume that their customers have had satisfactory results. My 1.5"TC on a 20G kettle works superbly. I imagine a 1" or even 3/4" TC might still get the job done (but of course you're proceeding at your own risk).

 

[schematix]

I'm gonna give it a shot with the 1/2" NTP to 1.5" TC and i'll report back with results when i get it done. I've already got the hole and enough NPT bulkhead fittings so i just dropped the $14 on the NPT to TC fitting (worst case it'll go in my inventory of spare parts that always fine a 2nd/3rd/4th use). I can always enlarge the hole and put in a 1.5" TC bulkhead if needed (although i have enough extra holes already IMHO).

I'll sacrifice some cash for the knowledge.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

I think I'd need to go to a larger kettle but that brings its own set of issued. Thats my normal preboil of 20.5 gallons

I'm putting mine in the lid for this very reason, this is not mine just found this on another forum

 

[cegan09]

I originally planned on a lid port but drew the same conclusion you did, i.e., it'd be harder to maneuver.

I've been back and forth on this a ton for mine. Ultimately I have to go lid I think. I have one of the Bayou kettles with the ridge for the steam basket and I don't think I can get the TC fitting above it. Below it is too low for me I think. For additions I'll either deal with opening the lid momentarily or I have a 1/2" NPT fitting through the lid as well for the RIMS return. I can use a funnel through there. If that gets annoying then down the road I'll add a larger 2"-3" TC fitting to the lid to use as an addition port.

Ordered my kit last night so I should have all the pieces needed to finish my new kettle finally. I have next friday off from work so I'm going to do my best to have it done for a wet test and hopefully brew day. I also have the pump and a power supply ready to do pump testing though the spray nozzle. Ordered the 6Gph version and I'll start testing with that one.

 

[Elky]

Yea thats what I was thinking. I guess I could put it in the lid but it might be slightly cumbersome when adding hops etc

If you wanted to get fancy you could throw a 3" tri clamp fitting on the lid, then put a 3" T on it with a block off plate on the top and attach the condenser on the side port via a step-down. This would allow you to open the blank off port for hop additions or hydrometer samples without needing to remove the lid.

Practical, not really, but it would be pretty freakin cool.

 

[Blazinlow86]

If you wanted to get fancy you could throw a 3" tri clamp fitting on the lid, then put a 3" T on it with a block off plate on the top and attach the condenser on the side port via a step-down. This would allow you to open the blank off port for hop additions or hydrometer samples without needing to remove the lid.

Practical, not really, but it would be pretty freakin cool.

Good idea

 

[Elky]

Good idea

Bonus cool guy points if instead of the blank off plate you add a butterfly valve, then a 6" straight section (or even a sight glass) with the cap on top of that. Then you could load up the upcoming hop addition ahead of time and just open the valve when it's time.

Then you can put it on an actuator!

Who needs to be able to take the lid off right?

 

[ingchr1]

I have mine through the lid and just move the lid to the side for additions. During the build one of the options I contemplated was a separate 1.5" TC port, with a concentric reducer, with a blanking plate. But I quickly ruled that out based upon cost.

 

[Bobby_M]

I didnt ship any out yet on account of particular vendor screwing me over on one crucial part. All should go out Monday.

 

[schematix]

I didnt ship any out yet on account of particular vendor screwing me over on one crucial part. All should go out Monday.

Does that mean I have time to add more parts to my order???

 

[Bobby_M]

Yes, order now

 

[schematix]

Yes, order now

2nd order is in.... PM me if you need order numbers to make sure they are combined

 

[cegan09]

I didnt ship any out yet on account of particular vendor screwing me over on one crucial part. All should go out Monday.

Thanks for that update Bobby. Excited to try this out when it does arrive.

 

[cegan09]

The last piece I need to solve is chilling. Currently I use an immersion chiller. the issue with this is that my current process is to drop it in for the last 10 minutes of the boil. But since the lid can't be on this will be a problem for the condenser.

I think I have a solution for this, but I'm curious what others suggest. What i'm planning on doing is adding two more 1/2" NPT fittings to my lid and modifying my immersion chiller to have two cam locks, or ball locks, or some other quick disconnect on the ends. Before the boil I can attach the chiller to the lid and just leave it in for the full boil. The only thing I'm trying to research is if it's ok to boil a copper chiller the whole length of the boil or should I just invest in a stainless one for this?

I could make the switch to a counterflow or plate chiller, but I like being able to see the surfaces that touch the beer to make sure they're clean. Feel free to convince me one of these is the better option.

 

[BrunDog]

I like a CFC, especially a SS one, but that's a personal call. I would not boil a copper coil.

 

[mongoose33]

The last piece I need to solve is chilling. Currently I use an immersion chiller. the issue with this is that my current process is to drop it in for the last 10 minutes of the boil. But since the lid can't be on this will be a problem for the condenser.

I think I have a solution for this, but I'm curious what others suggest. What i'm planning on doing is adding two more 1/2" NPT fittings to my lid and modifying my immersion chiller to have two cam locks, or ball locks, or some other quick disconnect on the ends. Before the boil I can attach the chiller to the lid and just leave it in for the full boil. The only thing I'm trying to research is if it's ok to boil a copper chiller the whole length of the boil or should I just invest in a stainless one for this?

I could make the switch to a counterflow or plate chiller, but I like being able to see the surfaces that touch the beer to make sure they're clean. Feel free to convince me one of these is the better option.

I like a CFC, especially a SS one, but that's a personal call. I would not boil a copper coil.

I'm with BrunDog on this one. Cegan, I do low oxygen brewing, at least as much as I can. One of the tenets of LODO brewing is to get copper out of the system, at least as much as you can. The reason is that copper facilitates/produces Fenton Reactions, which create super-staling compounds. You can mitigate this to some extent by using something called Brewtan-B, but I don't have any idea if it'd work for an entire hour-long boil.

I'm in the same boat as you--I need a way to chill that doesn't require an immersion chiller. I have a Jaded Hydra, which is beyond amazing. However, A) it's copper, and B) I have an element in the bottom of my kettle, and C) like you I wouldn't be able to keep the lid on and use the steam condenser.

So my solution has been to get a Stainless Steel counteflow chiller. It's not as efficient as the Hydra, not by a long shot. I've done a boiling to 70 degree chill with it in 4 minutes, and that's not a misprint. When the ground water is warmer, like now, it's 6 minutes.

But the Hydra is copper, and I'm trying to get all of that out of the system. Enter the SS counterflow chiller. I'm still working to dial it in, but it will allow me to leave the lid on with the steamcatcher.

Here's how I have it set up; works ok, still trying to shorten lines, make it work more efficiently. The green hose is water in, the black hose is water out. The wort is returned to the upper whirlpool port, the bottom port pulls wort out and into the CF chiller.

 

[BrunDog]

Hi @mongoose33... what chiller is that?

 

[Elky]

Hi @mongoose33... what chiller is that?

That looks like the Stout Tanks Counterflow. I've got the same one.

 

[mongoose33]

Hi @mongoose33... what chiller is that?

https://conical-fermenter.com/wc30x1/2-ss-tc-670_stainless-steel-wort-chiller.html

It's not as efficient as I'd like, but then again, it's stainless steel which is not as conductive of heat as is copper.

I'm also not as enamored of Stout Tanks as a supplier as I wish I were. They misrepresented the time to deliver on their website, when the order was placed they indicated delivery 3 weeks further out than they'd said on the website, they charged me credit card fees, they required a deposit (against which they charged credit card fees), and they wouldn't quote shipping despite that being tremendously easy. I could see why they wouldn't quote it up front--cost $54 to ship it to me. Sheesh. The end result was about a $254 chiller, which is rather pricey.

There is at least one other vendor out there selling a stainless CF chiller. Can't recall who, ran across them after I bought this one.

 

[Elky]

edit: double post. Oops

 

[mongoose33]

That looks like the Stout Tanks Counterflow. I've got the same one.

How has its efficiency been for you? I'm a bit disappointed in mine, don't know if my expectations were too high.