BMC brews

[Nightshade]

I don't buy New Belgium because they support the Sierra Club, same reason I won't buy Sierra Nevada.

 

[evrose]

The beer doesn't grow, the public gets nothing new, and innovation died the second the ink dried.

There are literally 20+ small, family-owned, breweries within a 10 mile drive of my house. They make some of the most creative beers you'll find anywhere in the world.

My local BevMo (a big-box chain liquor store) has a massive variety of beer, ranging from BMC, to dozens of craft brews, including foreign and domestic brands. I've found some really interesting stuff there over the years... and that's just the generic chain store, local specialty bottle shops offer an even wider selection of craft beer.

I could get in my car right now and within one hour, fill a growler with any one of several hundred innovative beer styles. If innovation in the beer industry is dying, I've yet to see any symptoms.

In reality, the beer market is large enough to support the huge scale BMC manufacturers, who supply to the masses... in addition to the small scale innovators who brew for a more select market. In many ways, these different size operations support eachother by bringing different types in to the overall beer market. I can hardly drink BMC beer anymore, but I draw the line at calling them "evil" (as one person in this thread did).

 

[kaconga]

Uhm.... so?

That just sounds like good business practice to me.

You know your clients want your best-seller, so you leverage that demand to push a new product you're piloting or a new acquisition from which you're trying to maximize your investment return. That's just basic commonsense business practice.

What's "evil" about it? The fact that Stone isn't big/popular enough to do it too?

It may be a good business practice and I fully understand your argument. However it is always bad for the consumer when you have limited options. I am sure other craft breweries would act the same when given the chance. I wouldn't support them either. As a CONSUMER, the business model of many large corporations is harmful to me. I personally don't care one bit if it affects you or any other shareholder either way. More choice is 95% of the time better for the consumer.

 

[Brewrifle]

I don't buy New Belgium because they support the Sierra Club, same reason I won't buy Sierra Nevada.

Interesting reason to not buy from a company. The environment sucks right?

 

[Nightshade]

Interesting reason to not buy from a company. The environment sucks right?

Without getting into politics here you may want to check into the difference between conservation and preservation, then apply that to the closing of public access to public lands.

 

[signpost]

Who's to blame? The regulators for creating a marketplace where such actions are permitted? The public for rewarding anti-competitive behaviour with their business dollars? Or the company for figuring out that "acting this way makes us more money and isn't illegal?"

All three.

 

[evrose]

The idea that turning a profit trumps morals is maybe a capitalist ideal, but I sure as hell don't think it is a virtue. And 'acting rationally' in a capitalist economy is also not something I accept as a reason to admire large corporations that do anything and everything they can to enrich investors at the cost of the rest of the population.

So is it okay of a small company does everything it can to turn a profit... 'cause you know, small companies have to make money too. Why is being "large" seen as a bad thing? I've never understood that. You GET large by being successful... something that we seem to denigrate a lot lately.

I've only worked for small companies over the years. My current company has 20 employees. We CONSTANTLY look for ways that we can (legally) get an edge in our market. The word "morals" has never once been uttered in a strategy meeting or in a marketing presentation. Not once. And I'd like to think we're a generally honest and regular group of capitalist pigs.

BTW, when does a small (and therefore virtuous) company become large (and therefor evil)? How big does Bell's, or Stone, or Deschutes have to get before they join the ranks of the Evil Empires? If you think those companies aren't doing everything in their power to maximize revenue and growth, you're licking too much krausen.

 

[Nightshade]

So is it okay of a small company does everything it can to turn a profit... 'cause you know, small companies have to make money too. Why is being "large" seen as a bad thing? I've never understood that. You GET large by being successful... something that we seem to denigrate a lot lately.

I've only worked for small companies over the years. My current company has 20 employees. We CONSTANTLY look for ways that we can (legally) get an edge in our market. The word "morals" has never once been uttered in a strategy meeting or in a marketing presentation. Not once. And I'd like to think we're a generally honest and regular group of capitalist pigs.

BTW, when does a small (and therefore virtuous) company become large (and therefor evil)? How big does Bell's, or Stone, or Deschutes have to get before they join the ranks of the Evil Empires? If you think those companies aren't doing everything in their power to maximize revenue and growth, you're licking too much krausen.

I like to call this the Starbucks syndrome, now that Starbucks is evil everyone jumps ship to Dutch Brothers....so at what point does DB become the evil giant thanks to it's supporters?

 

[evrose]

It may be a good business practice and I fully understand your argument. However it is always bad for the consumer when you have limited options. I am sure other craft breweries would act the same when given the chance. I wouldn't support them either. As a CONSUMER, the business model of many large corporations is harmful to me. I personally don't care one bit if it affects you or any other shareholder either way. More choice is 95% of the time better for the consumer.

This argument would be stronger if the market was compacted and the consumer really had limited options for beer. Look at my previous post on this... there are SO many options for craft beer out there right now, I could drink a different beer everyday for three years and not repeat the same one.

I'm just not seeing how the BMC companies are actually limiting consumer choice out here in the real world. Maybe (just maybe) for the sake of argument, I'd concede that they are trying... but they are also failing miserably... like I said, I can go out right now and within an hour, buy any one of HUNDREDS of different craft beers. Hundreds. Maybe more.

 

[FlyDoctor]

With very few egregious exceptions - I don't decide on what I buy based on the business practices. Who the hell has the time to research the business models of each company that you may buy a product from? Its a slippery philosophical slope - if you apply that logic to one business and business practice, why not all businesses and all business decisions?

Now, there are some that are so well publicized and so against my fabric that I just can't do it, but BMC and their ability to be a successful business at the expense of the little guys is not one of them. They are just being good capitalists - and whether we like it or not thats how the economy runs. Just like many eat meat - but don't want to think about how the steak got on your plate.

My point is where does one stop worrying about business? At some level you have to decide to go live in the woods and only farm your own goods if you are going to question everything. There are people who do that of course, but I think thats a bit outside the 2nd deviation from the norm.

So do I buy BMC, not really - but do I buy Goose Island? Sure, I like the 25th Anniversary ale, I have some of the Urban wheat lying around. I have even purchased Black label Bud - not too bad, but not my cup of tea everyday.

 

[evrose]

I like to call this the Starbucks syndrome, now that Starbucks is evil everyone jumps ship to Dutch Brothers....so at what point does DB become the evil giant thanks to it's supporters?

Yup.... once upon a time, Starbucks was a hip, trendy, small specialty coffee place in Seattle. Now it's evil (according to this line of logic).

Same with Walmart.

And Microsoft.

And Apple.

And Google. (no, wait, their slogan is "don't be evil", so they are okay.)

And... and... and... and...

 

[Brewrifle]

I don't drink BMC because it tastes like nothing...literally.

 

[roastquake]

What's wrong with selling part of your business to a bigger business to get more distribution channels, thus more sales, AND you get to brew the same craft beer? Goose Island isn't being forced to brew swill! It's a win-win for both companies AND the consumer who (at least in my area) can now go to the grocery store and choose from a larger selection of craft beer. just my 2 cents, I'd still rather buy from New Belgium for their sustainability practices

 

[NewJersey]

I live in New Jersey and we have a handful of good breweries here. (nothing in comparison to san diego. i was there last week and that is beer nerd heaven)
Its pretty hard to find Kane, Carton, or River Horse on tap at bars. i have an incredible liquor store in my town that carries or will get you literally anything you want. (if theyre not gonna carry it, they make you buy a case)
i would like to be able to go to my local bars and have more choices than the usual bud/bud lt/mil lt/yuongling/angry orhcard/heineken/summer shandy/sam/sam seasonal/goose island honkers ale/magic hat 9/and a long trail if we're lucky. some version of this is what every bar carries. we have a couple beer bars, but theyre far and few between. this is due to the system that BMC controls with distribution and it sucks. if youre a brewer and you want your beer toi be picked up by a distributor you have next to no chance.

 

[Yooper]

Yup.... once upon a time, Starbucks was a hip, trendy, small specialty coffee place in Seattle. Now it's evil (according to this line of logic).

Same with Walmart.

And Microsoft.

And Apple.

And Google. (no, wait, their slogan is "don't be evil", so they are okay.)

And... and... and... and...

I think for most of us with ethical reasons to not shop at certain places don't see "large" as "evil". Large companies exist, and that in itself doesn't make them unethical.

I think to take the giant leap that people who have moral convictions about things they buy just are too stupid to know that large doesn't equal evil is a great insult to those who make the choice.

I don't buy clothing from sweatshops in Malaysia, palm oil because of the deforestation, items from Wal-Mart due to its business practices, etc. It's not because a company is large. It can be a small company that I don't support due to its business practices.

To be so snide as to suggest that it's simply fear and loathing of large corporations and not a moral conviction is demeaning and insulting. I'm an educated person, and choose to not spend my dollars supporting things that go against my moral beliefs. I don't slam others for making their own choices, especially educated choices.

Let's not demean others who make other choices.

 

[evrose]

I think for most of us with ethical reasons to not shop at certain places don't see "large" as "evil". Large companies exist, and that in itself doesn't make them unethical.

I think to take the giant leap that people who have moral convictions about things they buy just are too stupid to know that large doesn't equal evil is a great insult to those who make the choice.

I don't buy clothing from sweatshops in Malaysia, palm oil because of the deforestation, items from Wal-Mart due to its business practices, etc. It's not because a company is large. It can be a small company that I don't support due to its business practices.

To be so snide as to suggest that it's simply fear and loathing of large corporations and not a moral conviction is demeaning and insulting. I'm an educated person, and choose to not spend my dollars supporting things that go against my moral beliefs. I don't slam others for making their own choices, especially educated choices.

Let's not demean others who make other choices.

Boy... that escalated quickly.

Sigh--- I wasn't saying a single thing about people who make informed decisions. But there's no denying that there is a certain "anti-big-company" attitude that has become pervasive in America. It's there. References to Big Pharma , Big Auto, Big BMC, Big XYZ, Big Whatever, are all over the place (always with a negative implication).

You make informed decisions... good for you. Many people don't. Many people (maybe more where I live) see anything Big as automatically suspect and Bad. Except Big Government - which is always looking out for the Little Guy. Maybe it's because I live in a heavily Blue state filled with anti-capitalist nutjobs... of which there are fewer in the UP. Who knows.

Anyhow, you read more in to my comment than I was thinking.

Now, pardon me while I go put on a Malaysian knit sweater, make a palm oil stir-fry, and browse through the WalMart website for some cheap Chinese-made kitch... while sipping a double-half-caf, no-whip, Starbucks Frappalattechino.... Um... you can barely taste the self-righteousness.

 

[signpost]

I think for most of us with ethical reasons to not shop at certain places don't see "large" as "evil". Large companies exist, and that in itself doesn't make them unethical.

I think to take the giant leap that people who have moral convictions about things they buy just are too stupid to know that large doesn't equal evil is a great insult to those who make the choice.

I don't buy clothing from sweatshops in Malaysia, palm oil because of the deforestation, items from Wal-Mart due to its business practices, etc. It's not because a company is large. It can be a small company that I don't support due to its business practices.

To be so snide as to suggest that it's simply fear and loathing of large corporations and not a moral conviction is demeaning and insulting. I'm an educated person, and choose to not spend my dollars supporting things that go against my moral beliefs. I don't slam others for making their own choices, especially educated choices.

Let's not demean others who make other choices.

Right on!

 

[signpost]

Also, I think too many people treat capitalism as a religion.

If Ayn Randism eventually takes over, as many want it to, I'll will undoubtedly be living more than 2 standard deviations from the norm. And happily so.

 

[Nightshade]

I think for most of us with ethical reasons to not shop at certain places don't see "large" as "evil". Large companies exist, and that in itself doesn't make them unethical.

I think to take the giant leap that people who have moral convictions about things they buy just are too stupid to know that large doesn't equal evil is a great insult to those who make the choice.

I don't buy clothing from sweatshops in Malaysia, palm oil because of the deforestation, items from Wal-Mart due to its business practices, etc. It's not because a company is large. It can be a small company that I don't support due to its business practices.

To be so snide as to suggest that it's simply fear and loathing of large corporations and not a moral conviction is demeaning and insulting. I'm an educated person, and choose to not spend my dollars supporting things that go against my moral beliefs. I don't slam others for making their own choices, especially educated choices.

Let's not demean others who make other choices.

While I see your point I also have met and known a lot of "bandwagon haters" who dislike a company because it is the cool thing to do but when you question them they have no real idea why aside from repeating "facts" they saw on a meme posted to Facebook, or some such tripe. This is where the idea of hating a company just because they are the giant that must fall next becomes a fact of life for a strong number rather than any real convictions.

All that aside I give you much respect for living by your convictions and both understanding them and the ability to state them clearly when confronted

 

[bob1852]

The idea that turning a profit

I'm so glad that Sierra Nevada, Dogfish, Boston, etc. give away their beer for free and have no interest in all at turning a profit.

 

[firerat]

I think some of you guys needs a beer. BMC or otherwise.

 

[Pratzie]

Also, I think too many people treat capitalism as a religion.

Compared to socialism, hell yeah i'd treat it like a religion. Go to church every week to

And by Ayn Randism, are u talking about Objectivism or something else?

 

[signpost]

I'm so glad that Sierra Nevada, Dogfish, Boston, etc. give away their beer for free and have no interest in all at turning a profit.

Ah, selective quoting. Here's what I actually wrote. Read it. Yeah, the WHOLE sentence.

The idea that turning a profit trumps morals is maybe a capitalist ideal, but I sure as hell don't think it is a virtue.

I never said turning a profit is a bad thing. Nobody would start a business if they weren't interested in a profit to some extent. What I do think is a bad thing is the way that turning a profit is held higher than any other value by so many people that defend less than friendly business practices.

Turning a profit is a good thing. But there are many other good things as well. I start having a problem with businesses when those other good things are thrown out in service of making a profit.

 

[kaconga]

If your defense of BMC is "it's capitalism, deal with it." Then I wonder how we could ever better ourselves. As a system, capitalism has its flaws. Acknowledging these flaws and attempting to not reward companies who exploit them is not about hating capitalism. For me it is about standing up for a belief that people can be more than selfish money grubbing jerks. Not saying any of you fit that description. I just think having ideals is not ignorant. If any company behaves in a way I find contradictory to my beliefs then I avoid buying from them.

 

[roastquake]

I think some of you guys needs a beer. BMC or otherwise.

I'll have one of whatever the rat is drinking

 

[Kolsch_Meister]

If any company behaves in a way I find contradictory to my beliefs then I avoid buying from them.

This is capitalism in action.

 

[Pratzie]

If your defense of BMC is "it's capitalism, deal with it." Then I wonder how we could ever better ourselves. As a system, capitalism has its flaws. Acknowledging these flaws and attempting to not reward companies who exploit them is not about hating capitalism. For me it is about standing up for a belief that people can be more than selfish money grubbing jerks. Not saying any of you fit that description. I just think having ideals is not ignorant. If any company behaves in a way I find contradictory to my beliefs then I avoid buying from them.

And then theres the other end of ur last sentence. Take Chick-Fil-A for example. They haven't seen a decline in business since their CEO's Sanctity of Marriage comment. They even saw a huge influx in business afterwards with the Support Chick-Fil-A Day. This while the majority of the country is agreement with and approves of gay marriage.

 

[mcangeli]

If you like it Drink it. I like coke. I drink coke. I can't drink pepsi (unless there is a good amount of rum in it...) I don't drink pepsi.

I will drink Budwiser, I won't drink bud light, coors light or the bud light lime...

Corporations aren't evil. The people running the corporations, yes....

 

[roastquake]

And then theres the other end of ur last sentence. Take Chick-Fil-A for example. They haven't seen a decline in business since their CEO's Sanctity of Marriage comment. They even saw a huge influx in business afterwards with the Support Chick-Fil-A Day. This while the majority of the country is agreement with and approves of gay marriage.

Along with gay rights, I also support the marriage of breaded chicken and hot oil

 

[dpatrickv]

I have read a lot of people say they will not touch a BMC beer. Is there a reason for this? One of my favorite beers is Ranger IPA from New Belgium (aka Coors).

I say if it tastes good, drink it.

Uh....wut?

No.