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TwoHeart

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I have read a lot of people say they will not touch a BMC beer. Is there a reason for this? One of my favorite beers is Ranger IPA from New Belgium (aka Coors).

I say if it tastes good, drink it.
 

NewJersey

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you need to do some reseaqrch as to how BMC does business then. you need to understand how the 3 tier system keeps the small brewers outof the game. you should see how many nuisance lawsuits are filed by BMC to bury the little guys.
the beer might be decent, but the business practices can be crappy to straight evil.
if you like real craft brewers you should try and support them.
all my opinion of course, do as you will
 

Brad2287

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First off new Belgium is not owned by Coors. It is fact a 100% employee owned company. I think when people refer to bmc they are generally refering to an American light adjunct lager. While these beers do have there place I personally find them rather boring and tastless. Some people have more of an issue with there buisness practices but for me it is that I do not prefer the taste associated with them.
 

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I will not buy with my money or encourage others to buy BMC products or 1/2 craft products. I may find myself being offered a taste of 1/2 craft which I will sample but that is a rare occurrence.

When I can not have craft beer I will order the oldest Jameson they have neat with a water and if they do not have Jameson then just water works.
 

signpost

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Yeah, wow. How did you get to the point of thinking a huge employee-owned brewery is owned by Coors?

And yeah, I won't buy anything BMC, because of their business practices. Before I knew anything about the companies, I actually enjoyed a Budweiser or Miller High Life on a hot camping trip. The beers are what they are. Most people that are into craft beer, aren't into the American Light Lager style. And some people that like the style still don't like the BMC beers.

But for me, it's their corporate, share-holder driven business practices that piss me off.
 

r8odecay

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Rampant IIPA is delicious... stinky and delicious... anyone know what they bitter that with? I pretty much only use Magnum, and fear that I'm missing out on some other options of delicious dank....


Edit: Nevermind... the awesome people that work and own the brewery published it all dummy proof on their website:

Rampant pours a pure copper and carries the sheen of a rightly hopped beer. The Mosaic and Calypso hops bring stonefruit to the front seat, and the addition of Centennials nod towards citrus for a well-rounded aroma.
 

Pratzie

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you need to do some reseaqrch as to how BMC does business then. you need to understand how the 3 tier system keeps the small brewers outof the game. you should see how many nuisance lawsuits are filed by BMC to bury the little guys.
the beer might be decent, but the business practices can be crappy to straight evil.
if you like real craft brewers you should try and support them.
all my opinion of course, do as you will
BMC Big Hitters (AB, Miller, Coors, Yuengling, Pabst) have been around for over 150 years. Yet the smaller nano/micro craft brew industry has exploded the last 25-30 years. The large BMC corps realize they are losing market shares to the craft industry that has since exploded and they are buying up these smaller breweries (Coors with Blue Moon, AB with Goose Island/Widmer, etc), and making profits in that manner instead so I think saying they are doing a great job of keeping the little guys down isn't 100% accurate.

I have to agree with the OP... if it tastes good, drink it.
 

r8odecay

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The large BMC corps realize they are losing market shares to the craft industry that has since exploded and they are buying up these smaller breweries (Coors with Blue Moon, AB with Goose Island/Widmer, etc), and making profits in that manner instead so I think saying they are doing a great job of keeping the little guys down isn't 100% accurate.
BUT...Isn't buying them up effectively keeping them down? Sure, the founders get a fat check... but then BMC brings THEIR vendors, THEIR processes, THEIR distribution... all they ever wanted was the label. The beer doesn't grow, the public gets nothing new, and innovation died the second the ink dried.
 

Pratzie

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BUT...Isn't buying them up effectively keeping them down? Sure, the founders get a fat check... but then BMC brings THEIR vendors, THEIR processes, THEIR distribution... all they ever wanted was the label. The beer doesn't grow, the public gets nothing new, and innovation died the second the ink dried.
Keeping them down? Beer doesn't grow? Public gets nothing new????? Seriously? How long have u been drinking craft beer?

http://www.brewersassociation.org/pages/business-tools/craft-brewing-statistics/number-of-breweries

When Carter legalized home brew on the Federal level, there were less then 90 breweries in the nation. As of the publication of this link there are more then 2500. Read up on any of the top Craft Breweries in the nation. Most started as hobbyists in the last 30 years, brewing their first batches in their kitchens or garages. DFH. Sierra Nevada. Boston Beer Co. These are craft breweries that not only do it for profit but because THEY LOVE BEER. They love beer and they love pushing the envelope and developing awesome new styles and hybrids of styles. And we are always going to have new breweries popping up to keep the evolution of craft beer going because we as craft brew lovers demand it.

Craft beer is here, and craft beer is here to stay. And IMHO there is no way the BMC corps will ever be able to keep them down. I think their acquisition of breweries like Leinenkugel, Widmer and Goose Island prove that they realize it as well. That and you know, the empirical data about big beer sales declining and craft beer sales growing steadily.
 

pdxal

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New Belgium is not owned by Coors (actually South African Breweries/Coors).
If it is good, I'll drink it. Sadly, all the gigantic, multinational, corporate, breweries want to turn out is the same 'ol swill. Not bad on a hot day, but there's much better out there.
Sadly, Ranger would never be turned out by a large(r) brewery.
 

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Personally I don't care. If for some odd reason I don't have any homebrew I'll buy bud light. Since I started brewing at 16 I've never liked miller or coolers and still can't stand it. Somebody shows up with a 30 I'm not too good to help finish it.

Got tired of hanging out with the few local home brewers cause I don't have time to wake up to stick the corn cob up my arse in the morning. Dang sure don't have the time to twist it when I hear BMC during the day.
 

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Not a fan of the light lager styleand wont buy anyone 's, but in south Texas we did see some limited distribution of Bud American Ale. That's as good as any $12/6-pack craft beer on the market, and at half the price and true pop top bottles to reuse, a nice bonus from the onetime King of Beers.
 

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I don't hate BMC, they hate me. When 80% of my local grocery stores selection is either wholly owned or partially owned by 3 companies then its a bad deal for me. They have the most shelf space and yet push for more. The Coors 9 pack is a great example. The only reason to make such a pack is to suck up another 8 inches of shelf space. In the world of beer they have named craft beer as an enemy combatant and are working hard to either own or break their competition. I simply see no reason to purchase from a company that would prefer to eliminate choice as a way to boost profits.
 

phenry

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I'm a bigger threat to craft beer profits than any big brewery, at least when it comes to my own beer buying habits.

I don't think I've bought more than $50 worth of craft beer in the past year, money spent on PBR/Schlitz might be close to $75.

I don't try to think what I've spent on ingredients so far.
 

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I don't hate BMC, they hate me. When 80% of my local grocery stores selection is either wholly owned or partially owned by 3 companies then its a bad deal for me. They have the most shelf space and yet push for more. The Coors 9 pack is a great example. The only reason to make such a pack is to suck up another 8 inches of shelf space. In the world of beer they have named craft beer as an enemy combatant and are working hard to either own or break their competition. I simply see no reason to purchase from a company that would prefer to eliminate choice as a way to boost profits.
In a case like this is the problem BMC or is it the store? Every company is going to push for more shelf space whether it's ABInBev, DFH, or the local nano. That's how the game is played regardless of the product. Johnson and Johnson wants more as does Procter and Gamble. Ultimately the store gets to decide what it thinks it's consumers want. I'm lucky I guess. My local chain has a shelf space ratio of about 3:1. 3 parts micro, 1 part macro but it hasn't always been that way. It's evolved to that as consumers drive the marketplace.
 

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And yeah, I won't buy anything BMC, because of their business practices. Before I knew anything about the companies, I actually enjoyed a Budweiser or Miller High Life on a hot camping trip. The beers are what they are. Most people that are into craft beer, aren't into the American Light Lager style. And some people that like the style still don't like the BMC beers.

But for me, it's their corporate, share-holder driven business practices that piss me off.
It's the same for me. It's not that I think all InBev/SABMillerCoors beers taste bad- some do, some don't.

For the same reason I won't shop at WalMart, I won't buy InBev or SABMillerCoors products. Not everyone feels this way, of course, and that's fine. It's just that I choose to live by my convictions.

I'm certain that InBev doesn't miss my business (nor does Wal-Mart), but it makes me feel better to not support them.
 
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If you don't like BMC, you don't like America. :D

Of course I'm being facitious, but it's a little bit true. The ultimate goal of most businesses in this country is to get it to the level of an IBM or Microsoft, or any of the BMCs. Not all of them, but most of them. You better believe that any company that gets to that level is going to exercise whatever clout they have to stay on the top of the pile. They'd be doing a disservice to their investors if they didn't.

If people stop buying their products, they will eventually go away. That fact that that hasn't happened yet means they must be doing something right.

To be honest - I work for a gigantic corporation, (300,000+ employees) and the thought that there is any sort of nefarious plan in place to control anything kinda makes me chuckle. Most large corporations can barely keep their day to day operations going, let alone plot for the overthrow of the world.

In reality, it's just like Dilbert.
 

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I minimize my purchases of BMC beers because of their business practices as well. There are few BMC beers that are truly unique and outstanding, so the "if it tastes good, drink it" argument rarely applies for me. Too many better alternatives from domestic craft producers.
 

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In a case like this is the problem BMC or is it the store? Every company is going to push for more shelf space whether it's ABInBev, DFH, or the local nano. That's how the game is played regardless of the product. Johnson and Johnson wants more as does Procter and Gamble. Ultimately the store gets to decide what it thinks it's consumers want. I'm lucky I guess. My local chain has a shelf space ratio of about 3:1. 3 parts micro, 1 part macro but it hasn't always been that way. It's evolved to that as consumers drive the marketplace.
BMC says they can't carry x unless they carry y and z too. It is a standard business model. Doesn't mean it's good for me as a consumer. Also I would look at the "craft" beer section more closely. Many of them are either wholly owned or partially owned by a BMC company in this area. Widmer makes decent beer, but they made a deal with the devil so to speak to have inbev distribution.
 

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you need to do some reseaqrch as to how BMC does business then.
We live in a capitalist economy. AB Inbev is simply acting rationally under the rules of the system in place. They happen to be quite good at it, so I bought stock in them. It's doubled since I bought it.

you need to understand how the 3 tier system keeps the small brewers out of the game.
There are currently more small breweries in North America than there has ever been in history.

the beer might be decent, but the business practices can be crappy to straight evil.
Again, they're acting rationally under the economic model we've decided to use.
 

kombat

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But for me, it's their corporate, share-holder driven business practices that piss me off.
It's those very same business practices that turned me on to them, as a shareholder. However, I find their beer bland. I guess that makes me the opposite of you. :)

As an investor, I don't care about their "practices," as long as they keep it legal. All I care about is a return on my investment, and AB Inbev has proven adept at that.
 

kombat

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BMC says they can't carry x unless they carry y and z too.
Uhm.... so?

That just sounds like good business practice to me.

You know your clients want your best-seller, so you leverage that demand to push a new product you're piloting or a new acquisition from which you're trying to maximize your investment return. That's just basic commonsense business practice.

What's "evil" about it? The fact that Stone isn't big/popular enough to do it too?
 

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If you don't like BMC, you don't like America. :D

Of course I'm being facitious, but it's a little bit true. The ultimate goal of most businesses in this country is to get it to the level of an IBM or Microsoft, or any of the BMCs. Not all of them, but most of them. You better believe that any company that gets to that level is going to exercise whatever clout they have to stay on the top of the pile. They'd be doing a disservice to their investors if they didn't.
Sure, if they didn't try to smother competition as much as they can they would be doing a disservice to their investors.

It's those very same business practices that turned me on to them, as a shareholder. However, I find their beer bland. I guess that makes me the opposite of you. :)

As an investor, I don't care about their "practices," as long as they keep it legal. All I care about is a return on my investment, and AB Inbev has proven adept at that.
As a customer, I'm not going to put any money in their or your pockets, because I find their business practices descpicable.

The idea that turning a profit trumps morals is maybe a capitalist ideal, but I sure as hell don't think it is a virtue. And 'acting rationally' in a capitalist economy is also not something I accept as a reason to admire large corporations that do anything and everything they can to enrich investors at the cost of the rest of the population.
 

kombat

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The idea that turning a profit trumps morals is maybe a capitalist ideal, but I sure as hell don't think it is a virtue.
What "morals???" What the heck are you talking about?

They're not burning puppies - they're just trying to dominate their market. Just like every good business out there.

And 'acting rationally' in a capitalist economy is also not something I accept as a reason to admire large corporations that do anything and everything they can to enrich investors at the cost of the rest of the population.
Who's to blame? The regulators for creating a marketplace where such actions are permitted? The public for rewarding anti-competitive behaviour with their business dollars? Or the company for figuring out that "acting this way makes us more money and isn't illegal?"

Rest assured, their large competitors are acting that way, so what choice do they have but to act similarly, or get left behind?
 

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I don't buy New Belgium because they support the Sierra Club, same reason I won't buy Sierra Nevada.
 

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The beer doesn't grow, the public gets nothing new, and innovation died the second the ink dried.
There are literally 20+ small, family-owned, breweries within a 10 mile drive of my house. They make some of the most creative beers you'll find anywhere in the world.

My local BevMo (a big-box chain liquor store) has a massive variety of beer, ranging from BMC, to dozens of craft brews, including foreign and domestic brands. I've found some really interesting stuff there over the years... and that's just the generic chain store, local specialty bottle shops offer an even wider selection of craft beer.

I could get in my car right now and within one hour, fill a growler with any one of several hundred innovative beer styles. If innovation in the beer industry is dying, I've yet to see any symptoms.

In reality, the beer market is large enough to support the huge scale BMC manufacturers, who supply to the masses... in addition to the small scale innovators who brew for a more select market. In many ways, these different size operations support eachother by bringing different types in to the overall beer market. I can hardly drink BMC beer anymore, but I draw the line at calling them "evil" (as one person in this thread did).
 

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Uhm.... so?

That just sounds like good business practice to me.

You know your clients want your best-seller, so you leverage that demand to push a new product you're piloting or a new acquisition from which you're trying to maximize your investment return. That's just basic commonsense business practice.

What's "evil" about it? The fact that Stone isn't big/popular enough to do it too?
It may be a good business practice and I fully understand your argument. However it is always bad for the consumer when you have limited options. I am sure other craft breweries would act the same when given the chance. I wouldn't support them either. As a CONSUMER, the business model of many large corporations is harmful to me. I personally don't care one bit if it affects you or any other shareholder either way. More choice is 95% of the time better for the consumer.
 

Nightshade

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Interesting reason to not buy from a company. The environment sucks right?
Without getting into politics here you may want to check into the difference between conservation and preservation, then apply that to the closing of public access to public lands.
 

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Who's to blame? The regulators for creating a marketplace where such actions are permitted? The public for rewarding anti-competitive behaviour with their business dollars? Or the company for figuring out that "acting this way makes us more money and isn't illegal?"
All three.
 

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The idea that turning a profit trumps morals is maybe a capitalist ideal, but I sure as hell don't think it is a virtue. And 'acting rationally' in a capitalist economy is also not something I accept as a reason to admire large corporations that do anything and everything they can to enrich investors at the cost of the rest of the population.
So is it okay of a small company does everything it can to turn a profit... 'cause you know, small companies have to make money too. Why is being "large" seen as a bad thing? I've never understood that. You GET large by being successful... something that we seem to denigrate a lot lately.

I've only worked for small companies over the years. My current company has 20 employees. We CONSTANTLY look for ways that we can (legally) get an edge in our market. The word "morals" has never once been uttered in a strategy meeting or in a marketing presentation. Not once. And I'd like to think we're a generally honest and regular group of capitalist pigs.

BTW, when does a small (and therefore virtuous) company become large (and therefor evil)? How big does Bell's, or Stone, or Deschutes have to get before they join the ranks of the Evil Empires? If you think those companies aren't doing everything in their power to maximize revenue and growth, you're licking too much krausen.
 

Nightshade

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So is it okay of a small company does everything it can to turn a profit... 'cause you know, small companies have to make money too. Why is being "large" seen as a bad thing? I've never understood that. You GET large by being successful... something that we seem to denigrate a lot lately.

I've only worked for small companies over the years. My current company has 20 employees. We CONSTANTLY look for ways that we can (legally) get an edge in our market. The word "morals" has never once been uttered in a strategy meeting or in a marketing presentation. Not once. And I'd like to think we're a generally honest and regular group of capitalist pigs.

BTW, when does a small (and therefore virtuous) company become large (and therefor evil)? How big does Bell's, or Stone, or Deschutes have to get before they join the ranks of the Evil Empires? If you think those companies aren't doing everything in their power to maximize revenue and growth, you're licking too much krausen.
I like to call this the Starbucks syndrome, now that Starbucks is evil everyone jumps ship to Dutch Brothers....so at what point does DB become the evil giant thanks to it's supporters?
 

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It may be a good business practice and I fully understand your argument. However it is always bad for the consumer when you have limited options. I am sure other craft breweries would act the same when given the chance. I wouldn't support them either. As a CONSUMER, the business model of many large corporations is harmful to me. I personally don't care one bit if it affects you or any other shareholder either way. More choice is 95% of the time better for the consumer.
This argument would be stronger if the market was compacted and the consumer really had limited options for beer. Look at my previous post on this... there are SO many options for craft beer out there right now, I could drink a different beer everyday for three years and not repeat the same one.

I'm just not seeing how the BMC companies are actually limiting consumer choice out here in the real world. Maybe (just maybe) for the sake of argument, I'd concede that they are trying... but they are also failing miserably... like I said, I can go out right now and within an hour, buy any one of HUNDREDS of different craft beers. Hundreds. Maybe more.
 

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With very few egregious exceptions - I don't decide on what I buy based on the business practices. Who the hell has the time to research the business models of each company that you may buy a product from? Its a slippery philosophical slope - if you apply that logic to one business and business practice, why not all businesses and all business decisions?

Now, there are some that are so well publicized and so against my fabric that I just can't do it, but BMC and their ability to be a successful business at the expense of the little guys is not one of them. They are just being good capitalists - and whether we like it or not thats how the economy runs. Just like many eat meat - but don't want to think about how the steak got on your plate.

My point is where does one stop worrying about business? At some level you have to decide to go live in the woods and only farm your own goods if you are going to question everything. There are people who do that of course, but I think thats a bit outside the 2nd deviation from the norm.

So do I buy BMC, not really - but do I buy Goose Island? Sure, I like the 25th Anniversary ale, I have some of the Urban wheat lying around. I have even purchased Black label Bud - not too bad, but not my cup of tea everyday.
 
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