Blue Moon Clone

[BeerBaronBob]

Wow, what an awesome thread. I am just about ready to give it a go with Wayne's last recipe as follows but have just a couple of questions.

Looking at supplier options, the Weyermann Wheat I am seeing is Pale Wheat. Is this correct for the style? The SRM looks right.

Based on my suppliers Hallertau pellets (3.8%) the IBUs will be more like 20.5 per Beersmith. Do I lower the .ozs, add later or just call this close enough to the original 17.5 units? (Definitely like the non-bitterness of the commercial Blue Moon).

Been using rice hull on all my AG brews but this is the first I have heard of pre-soaking. What is the reason for this?

Finally, I might be crazy but I seem to see somewhere buried in either this thread or another whit thread about pitching two smack packs in a 5 gal batch. Is one 1056 enough?

The original recipe uses US 2 Row Pale Malt and US White Wheat Malt. Wayne has suggested if you wish to tweak the original recipe you can substitute Vienna for the regular 2 Row. I am cracking a keg of this variation this weekend. I used regular White Wheat Malt not the Weyermann Pale. I also used 1.5# of Flaked Oats.

I presoak (not very long.. maybe a couple of minutes) my rice hulls in hot water because they absorb a bunch of water and it helps me hit my mash temps and runnings volumes better.

I always use a starter so only use one smack pack but the amount of yeast you need is generally dependent on the amount of attenuation you expect . higher yeast cell counts for higher gravity beers. Your recipe above if it is for 5.25 gal calcs to an estimated OG of 1.068 at 75% efficiency in my Beersmith which is a little high for this style. Im only using about 10# of grain in my recipes with an OG of 1.057 at 75% eff. Check out My Malty for more about this but if you dont use a starter, you could use two smack packs and should be OK. This kind of beer does not need two if you target an OG of 1.054. I make sure my yeast is a fresh as possible, and I use a starter to make sure the yeast is active before I get to pitching time. If the yeast ends up being bad or too old I can then get another pack and can pitch directly on brew day if I need to. Proper aeration of the wort is also a factor. Make sure you shake up your carboy good prior to pitching so your yeast gets enough O2 to work. Underpitching is just as bad as over pitching so the right amount is really dependent on a lot of factors including age of the smack pack and how it was stored in transit to you.

Finally 1.5 oz of 3.2% Hallertau for 60 min gives you about 17.7 IBUs in a 5.25 gal batch.

Hope this helps!

 

[midfielder5]

ten more gallons of Wayne's first version--- it rocks!
I added fresh ginger along w/ orange zest after fermentation quieted down.

 

[ThomInSC]

The original recipe uses US 2 Row Pale Malt and US White Wheat Malt. Wayne has suggested if you wish to tweak the original recipe you can substitute Vienna for the regular 2 Row. I am cracking a keg of this variation this weekend. I used regular White Wheat Malt not the Weyermann Pale. I also used 1.5# of Flaked Oats.

I presoak (not very long.. maybe a couple of minutes) my rice hulls in hot water because they absorb a bunch of water and it helps me hit my mash temps and runnings volumes better.

I always use a starter so only use one smack pack but the amount of yeast you need is generally dependent on the amount of attenuation you expect . higher yeast cell counts for higher gravity beers. Your recipe above if it is for 5.25 gal calcs to an estimated OG of 1.068 at 75% efficiency in my Beersmith which is a little high for this style. Im only using about 10# of grain in my recipes with an OG of 1.057 at 75% eff. Check out My Malty for more about this but if you dont use a starter, you could use two smack packs and should be OK. This kind of beer does not need two if you target an OG of 1.054. I make sure my yeast is a fresh as possible, and I use a starter to make sure the yeast is active before I get to pitching time. If the yeast ends up being bad or too old I can then get another pack and can pitch directly on brew day if I need to. Proper aeration of the wort is also a factor. Make sure you shake up your carboy good prior to pitching so your yeast gets enough O2 to work. Underpitching is just as bad as over pitching so the right amount is really dependent on a lot of factors including age of the smack pack and how it was stored in transit to you.

Finally 1.5 oz of 3.2% Hallertau for 60 min gives you about 17.7 IBUs in a 5.25 gal batch.

Hope this helps!

Thanks BBB, I really haven't been tracking my eff but I suspect it is more like 70-72 % and I generally shoot for a 5.5 gal batch to account for losses between the kettle to primary to secondary so that might be some of the differences. Regardless, I have reworked my grain bill and hops to now have what looks like OG 1.055 and IBU 16.9. I will give the hull pre-soak a go and plan to pitch one pack. Hopefully be giving a report on how the mash and boil go next weekend.

Thom

 

[nilo]

Here's my 3rd attempt.

4.5# wheat malt
5# 2row >>>>> CORRECTED AT 6/6/11 TO SHOW CORRECT AMOUNT OF 2 ROW MALT USED. IT WAS SHOWING 4 POUNDS BEFORE.
2# crystal 10L
1/2# carapils
1/2# flaked oats boiled for 1h
1oz hallertauer for 60min
1/4oz coriander for 10min
1/2oz sweet orange peel for 10min
1/2oz bitter orange peel for 10min
Mashed at 157F, fermented at 66F with S04

OG=1.051
FG=1.011
ABV=5.2%
IBU=13
SRM=7

Comments: I got some phenolic taste, just a little, could be the boiled oats?
Boiling oats did increase thickness/body to something very close to the real BM.
If I had to change anything to this recipe, it would be the oats, perhaps 1/2# boiled for only 10min.

Here's how it looks like and a test I did, not sure if means anything, but knocked as much CO2 as possible out of each beer and tested gravity. Look what I got.

 

[bmickey]

To clarify Wayne suggested starting with the ratio that the original Blue Moon was deigned at.

3:1 is the ratio of corriander to orange peel but the approx equivalent amount for a 5 gal batch is 1oz ground corriander for the last 10 minutes of boil and 0.3 oz of ground sweet valencia orange peel for the last 5 minutes of boil - ground or fresh zest has been suggested as well.

Good luck with your brew.

So 1oz of corriander is 6 tsp right? I will make sure I adjust accordingly tomorrow!

 

[bmickey]

My first All Grain batch is bubbling away in my primary!

 

[tremec77]

Here's my 3rd attempt.

4.5# wheat malt
4# 2row
2# crystal 10L
1/2# carapils
1/2# flaked oats boiled for 1h
1oz hallertauer for 60min
1/4oz coriander for 10min
1/2oz sweet orange peel for 10min
1/2oz bitter orange peel for 10min
Mashed at 157F, fermented at 66F with S04

OG=1.051
FG=1.011
ABV=5.2%
IBU=13
SRM=7

So you have removed the rice hulls all together?

 

[nilo]

So you have removed the rice hulls all together?

Correct, no rice hulls

 

[midfielder5]

why no rice hulls? have you brewed it yet?

 

[Wayne1]

I would say nilo doesn't need rice hulls in his recipe because he is not mashing with the oats. The combination of wheat and oats is what turns the mash into a gelatinous mass of goop.

Just malted wheat and barley aren't really hard to lauter.

Please remember that everyone's system is a bit different. In nilo's system with the ingredients available to him and for his taste, he felt that the original recipe wasn't giving him the mouthfeel and color that the current commercial version of Blue Moon offer.

The way YOU brew might turn out a different result.

Try the original recipe. Try the "new" version I recently posted. Try nilo's version. compare them all them see which one you like the best.

We have strayed a bit from an exact clone of the original Blue Moon to dialing in a homebrew version of what is currently being sold. That's just fine with me. I appreciate the feedback of everyone who has tried out the various versions offered in this thread.

I may even try to brew up a version this summer

 

[bmickey]

Well it is fermenting away!

 

[Snotpoodle]

Hi Wayne,

Just to let you know, the first batch came out beautifully, I followed your recipe almost to the letter.

So good in fact, that my province's brew club asked me to brew one up for our beer festival, and to compete in the Specialty beers category.

For this run I will be using the right coriander / orange ratio, as i felt the coriander didn't come through (i had them in even measures), and I am going to give the Danstar Belgian Yeast a go, i felt my Safale Belgian didnt give me enough zing / clove.

This is a fantastic recipe, thanks for all the advice, I'll pop my recipe up in a few minutes, as I'll be putting down the brew this Saturday.

 

[rack04]

My LHBS has Great Western Wheat Malt, Weyermann Light Wheat, and Weyermann Dark Wheat. Which wheat malt is the one I should be using for this recipe?

 

[midfielder5]

either the GW or Weyermann light.

 

[Wayne1]

midfielder5 is correct. The Weyermann pale wheat would be the best choice, but the GW Wheat Malt would be fine. In fact that is what was used in the first batches of Blue Moon brewed at SandLot.

I have just gone back and edited the recipe I posted in post #274.

I have added a bit more detail with times and temps and water amounts. This is roughly the mashing program I use in my system. I hope it will work out for yours.

I fly sprage, so I did not add any detail for batch sparging.

For anyone who does make this recipe, I would appreciate some feedback to this thread.

 

[rack04]

So has anyone compared the original recipe with 2-row vs vienna? I'm wondering it the vienna provides the body that we are used to with Blue Moon.

 

[midfielder5]

I have made 20 gallons of Wayne's first recipe & don't had any complaints about the body. I have drank it side by side the real thing many, many, many times. GF loves Blue Moon so we always have it in bottles.
It is perfect, IMO. but to each, his/her own!

thanks Wayne.

 

[Snotpoodle]

And its brewday, here is the recipe I am using for todays Belgian Wit (Blue Moon Clone).

Belgian Halfwit

Brew Type: All Grain Date: 3/19/2011
Batch Size: 25.00 L Assistant Brewer:
Boil Volume: 28.62 L Boil Time: 60 min


Ingredients Amount Item Type % or IBU
2.50 kg Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 47.2 %
2.50 kg Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (2.0 SRM) Grain 47.2 %
0.30 kg Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 5.7 %
40.00 gm Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [4.60%] (60 min) Hops 18.0 IBU
0.40 oz Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
0.63 oz Chamomile Flower (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
1.20 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Belgian White Ale Yeast (Danstar) or White labs that i have washed from last time.

Beer Profile Estimated Original Gravity: 1.049 SG (1.044-1.050 SG) Measured Original Gravity: 1.050 SG
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.014 SG (1.006-1.010 SG) Measured Final Gravity: SG
Estimated Color: 3.5 SRM (2.5-5.1 SRM) Color [Color]
Bitterness: 18.0 IBU (15.0-25.0 IBU) Alpha Acid Units: 1.0 AAU
Estimated Alcohol by Volume: 4.5 % (4.8-5.3 %) Actual Alcohol by Volume: 0.6 %
Actual Calories: 90 cal/l

All on track for a great brewday, weather is overcast, so should be a good one for a blue moon!

UpdatE: Brewday was a resounding success. Hit the 1.050 Og nicely on a perfect 25L batch. Fermenter is chugging away quietly after a healthy starter was pitched.

Yay more Belgian Wit!

 

[fdemt84]

Well it is fermenting away!

Is that a Kruezberg bottle back there in the corner?

 

[nilo]

I'm just drinking my blue moon clone as I type and one thing I learned, our clones will never be like the commercial beer, you know why?
Whatever we brew, is better than the commercial version, seriously. Just taste much better.
I have been testing my batches side by side with BM and I, and others, have always came to the conclusion of "the homebrew is much better".
I guess we are trying to prove to ourselves that we CAN brew something close to BM but if we get too close, we'll probably say "ok, I need to brew now something that taste good"
Anyways, just some weird thoughts, I may have had too much of my homebrew at this point

 

[ThomInSC]

Brewed my first batch last night using Weyermann Vienna and Weyermann Pale Wheat. I have been waffling back and forth with the grain amounts based on the original recipe, Beersmith and the input from BBB but finally decided to go with Wayne's updated post at #274. I guess my efficiency is better than I thought because I wound up with a pre-boil of 1.053 and a OG 1.064. So much for a session beer LOL Anyway, on the positive side, the temps and volumes came out great. With .5 lb of pre-soaked rice hulls and being careful to lauter/sparge slowly (nearly 1 hour) I had no problems whatsoever with stuck sparge. Nothing to do but wait now (I hate that part) but the smell coming out of the bubbling airlock has a hint of the coriander so I am hopeful. Will let you know how it goes.
Thom

 

[d_striker]

I brewed this and it came out nothing like blue moon. Taste and color were way off. Not a bad beer, just not blue moon.

Color was more like a witbier than blue moon.

 

[nilo]

I brewed this and it came out nothing like blue moon. Taste and color were way off. Not a bad beer, just not blue moon.

Color was more like a witbier than blue moon.

which recipe did you brew?

 

[d_striker]

which recipe did you brew?

Grains:
50% 2 Row Pale Malt
40% White wheat malt
10% Oats (cereal mashed)

 

[ekjohns]

Grains:
50% 2 Row Pale Malt
40% White wheat malt
10% Oats (cereal mashed)

Since then we have added a little crystal malt to get the deep color and sweetness, boiled a small amount of oats for mouth feel, and adjusted the amounts of spices to yeild a brew much closer to blue moon for small scale batches. The original recipe was from blue moons original brewer and it may have changed since then to what we drink today. Also large scale brewing does not always translate to 5 gal batches. I would suggest reading through the thread. Nilo has done some great optimizations and I would suggest paying great attention to what he has said. Welcome to the thread and brew on

 

[d_striker]

Since then we have added a little crystal malt to get the deep color and sweetness, boiled a small amount of oats for mouth feel, and adjusted the amounts of spices to yeild a brew much closer to blue moon for small scale batches. The original recipe was from blue moons original brewer and it may have changed since then to what we drink today. Also large scale brewing does not always translate to 5 gal batches. I would suggest reading through the thread. Nilo has done some great optimizations and I would suggest paying great attention to what he has said. Welcome to the thread and brew on

Do you know roughly what page the new recipe is on?

 

[ekjohns]

Nilo - could you please describe the difference between the 2nd and 3rd attempt? Which one had the closest taste to blue moon, closest color, closest mouth feel. I believe the color and mouth feel was spot on with attempt 3. Is this correct? What current spice amounts are you using? I would like to have everyone come together with a "final" recipe for the people just joining the thread as a starting point. thanks a bunch for everything you have done so far

2nd attempt
4.5# white wheat malt
4.5# 2 row
1# crystal 10L
1/4# crystal 40L
2# Flaked oats (Mashed)

and 3rd attempt:
4.5# wheat malt
4# 2row
2# crystal 10L
1/2# carapils
1/2# flaked oats boiled for 1h
1oz hallertauer for 60min
1/4oz coriander for 10min
1/2oz sweet orange peel for 10min
1/2oz bitter orange peel for 10min
Mashed at 157F, fermented at 66F with S04

 

[nilo]

Here are the recipes with minor corrections/additions:

2nd attempt
4.5# white wheat malt
4.5# 2 row
1# crystal 10L
1/4# crystal 40L
2# Flaked oats (Mashed)
1/2lb rice hulls
Mashed at 158F
1/4oz cracked coriander for 10min
1 tsp irish moss for 20min
1oz hallertauer for 60min
Fresh orange peels from 3 medium size oranges, soaked in vodka into primary
Fermented with 1 pack S04 at 67 for 10 days
Actual numbers below:
OG=1.053
FG=1.013
ABV%=5.2
IBU=13
SRM=7




and 3rd attempt:
4.5# wheat malt
5# 2row
2# crystal 10L
1/2# carapils
1/2# flaked oats boiled for 1h
1oz hallertauer for 60min
1/4oz coriander for 10min
1/2oz dry sweet orange peel for 10min
1/2oz dry bitter orange peel for 10min
1 tsp irish moss for 20min
Mashed at 157F, fermented at 66F with 1 pack S04 for 8 days
Actual numbers below:
OG=1.051
FG=1.011
ABV%=5.2
IBU=13
SRM=7


Answering your questions:
Color:
#2 color was little too dark, guess from crystal 40.
#3 was spot on

Body/thickness:
#2 body was too thin, nothing like real BM
#3 was very, very close. I was tasting some phenolic in the beer, but I think it was too green. After 4 weeks bottle conditioned, it went away. Be aware that boiling 1/2lb oats for 1h will leave a nasty slimy trub in your fermenter. It will compact some after fermentation is completed, but it looks nasty.

Flavors:
#2 had stronger orange flavor than #3
#3 had less flavor, in any spectrum I guess, but that seems to match better with the real BM

Hope this helps. I'm sticking with #3, perhaps boil the oats for 15min only. Not sure how that would affect body though.

 

[rack04]

Those are very small additions of coriander and orange based on the original recommendations. Did you try the original recipe and find the 1.25 oz coriander and 0.4 oz valenica orange was too much?

 

[nilo]

Yes. I noticed that my previous attempt #1 had too much of a coriander flavor, so I scaled it down.