Blissfully Child-Free

[sompls]

I have two kids and they are driving me crazy. Especially the older boy. I am also grumpy, aged beyond my years, and poor.

Me too! But man oh man I wouldn't change a thing...Life is good!

 

[Kharnynb]

Hmm, gouda, proper, 3-5 year aged gouda is the snack of gods....

ugh, gotta tell my parents to bring some kg's with em as they come here in summer....

 

[slym2none]

I like a nice Havarti on Club crackers.

 

[kombat]

saying parents got "tricked" into having kids isn't hate filled??

No, of course not. Hyperbole, maybe, condescending, sure, but definitely not "hate filled." Why would I hate someone who got tricked?

And "tricked" may have been overstating it, but I do feel there is an undeniable element of deception, or at the very least omission of information. My sister-in-law had a baby just over a year ago, and a few months later she confided in us, "I had no idea it would be this hard." Why might that be? Why wouldn't anyone who presumably loved her and had been through the process (i.e., any relative with children) have educated her in all the difficulties she was going to face?

It's abundantly clear directly tie your happiness to your bank account.

I think it's more that my anxiety is tied to an absence of money. My family grew up on the lower-end of middle income. Dad was a blue-collar factory worker, mom stayed home to raise us 3 kids. I saw first hand how precious money was, and how tough decisions had to be made when there wasn't enough. So now I'm paranoid of not having enough. I do not want to be a destitute senior citizen eating cat food. So I hoard money. The only way I can sleep well at night is by living debt-free, with a well-padded bank account.

I concluded early on that I could have any 2 of the following: A nice house, a comfortable retirement, or kids. But I could not have all 3. I chose the house and retirement, and don't regret my decision. I see way too many people struggling with enormous mortgages, trying to balance kids, and with virtually nothing put away for retirement. I could not live like that.

Do you think that there are no people with kids that have more money than you?

Of course. But they were either luckier than me (can't control that) or work harder/sacrifice more than me, and I like my work/life balance the way it is. I'm not willing to trade more time for more money, just so I can have kids I don't really want anyway.

 

[Psylocide]

Hmm, gouda, proper, 3-5 year aged gouda is the snack of gods....

ugh, gotta tell my parents to bring some kg's with em as they come here in summer....

Landana 1000 day is one of my favorites... it's $19.99/lb but so worth it.

 

[TheCADJockey]

Hmm, gouda, proper, 3-5 year aged gouda is the snack of gods....

ugh, gotta tell my parents to bring some kg's with em as they come here in summer....

Kraft: Easy Cheese, sharp cheddar, 8 oz. can....

Straight from the can, maybe between a couple Ritz crackers so when you squeeze them it comes out the holes. Yeah.. the stuff of dreams.

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

No, of course not. Hyperbole, maybe, condescending, sure, but definitely not "hate filled." Why would I hate someone who got tricked?

And "tricked" may have been overstating it, but I do feel there is an undeniable element of deception, or at the very least omission of information. My sister-in-law had a baby just over a year ago, and a few months later she confided in us, "I had no idea it would be this hard." Why might that be? Why wouldn't anyone who presumably loved her and had been through the process (i.e., any relative with children) have educated her in all the difficulties she was going to face?



I think it's more that my anxiety is tied to an absence of money. My family grew up on the lower-end of middle income. Dad was a blue-collar factory worker, mom stayed home to raise us 3 kids. I saw first hand how precious money was, and how tough decisions had to be made when there wasn't enough. So now I'm paranoid of not having enough. I do not want to be a destitute senior citizen eating cat food. So I hoard money. The only way I can sleep well at night is by living debt-free, with a well-padded bank account.

I concluded early on that I could have any 2 of the following: A nice house, a comfortable retirement, or kids. But I could not have all 3. I chose the house and retirement, and don't regret my decision. I see way too many people struggling with enormous mortgages, trying to balance kids, and with virtually nothing put away for retirement. I could not live like that.



Of course. But they were either luckier than me (can't control that) or work harder/sacrifice more than me, and I like my work/life balance the way it is. I'm not willing to trade more time for more money, just so I can have kids I don't really want anyway.

I should've pointed out earlier that I figured you were being slightly hyperbolic cause thats the impression I got. Tricked isn't the greatest word, but in a way it feels that way. Some people never want to admit out loud how hard it can be to raise kids, some consider saying its hard raising your kids to be equivelent to saying "I don't love my children".

The way I see it, your friends have kids, and see one or two of the group of friends aren't having kids. They want their little kids to have kids to play with, so they want their kids to be friends with your kids and then its easier to hang out with you and still be good friends. Without you having kids its tough to find time to hang out and keep up with old friends. It definitely comes off though that they are trying to get you to have kids too so you know how hard it is.

It sounds like I grew up similarly to you, both my parents worked though and my dad made decent money until 9/11 and the airline industry tanked and they started cutting back. I would never *ever* say we were poor, I lived a pretty comfortable life as a kid. Though when you have 3 children, unless your parents combined pull down $200,000 a year its going to be slightly tight on money. My parents eventually got divorced when I was 15, and money was I'm guessing a large part of it (I remember hearing yelling fights that were definitely about money though I don't really think its any of my business, my parents are cordial to each other and there was no custody battles and all that drama). I don't think I could have kids and think about putting them through something like that. Yes, rich people have kids and get divorced as well and money never seems like enough.

 

[azazel1024]

My girlfriends father may have actually been tricked haha. He wasn't opposed to having kids but was more focused on building his business in the early years of marriage. In his early 30's his wife was tired of waiting. One day when they were driving to an auto auction she decided to let him know she hadnt been taking birth control and threw it out the window. My girlfriends brother was born 8 months later.

Very entertaining thread btw.

Yeah I know a few people tricked in to having kids. I know more who accidently had kids. Even more who intentionally had kids, or it was a happy accident, because they wanted kids anyway.

My only hate is people who hate on others' decisions to either have kids or not have kids. Or generalize (often wrongly) about a populace because of their decision.

Like "Oh, I hate parents because I've had some who can't be bothered to pay attention to where they are pushing a stroller or cart or something". Wait...so kids are bad and parents are bad because a tiny number do that? I guess I should hate childless adults because I've run in to some of them who are rude and/or oblivious also? That just doesn't make sense to me.

Or, "I've suffered some screaming kid in a store who's parent couldn't be bothered to shut them up"...because they are a dog that can just be beaten in to shutting up. Yeah, we all suffer other people's decisions. The people I hate are the ones who are grown adults who act like rotten kids. Having worked customer service before, I've suffered a lot more seeing a grown adult who went on an anger bender over nothing or was acting like a special little snowflake. They don't have the execuse, a 4 year old at least doesn't have the life experiences and impulse control to necessarily handle themselves.

My first was a complete accident. A happy one, because my wife and I wanted kids...but a couple of years earlier than we wanted to (we were just married a few months before). Our second was a well laid plan (*rim shot*), our third a mostly accident. Fortunately we wanted 3.

Again, I hold no judgement towards people who do or don't want kids. It is a pretty darned personal choice. It just annoys me when people are predjudicial towards one group or another because they don't understand that group, or they have very badly wrong impressions of something. Which, I think mostly holds for the childless of what rasing a kid is actually like, because let's face it, parents haven't been parents since they were born and most spent at least a little time as adults without kids, so they can grok the whole childless thing. The non-parents, unless they've been surrogate parents, don't have the experience. Which doesn't mean they can't have an idea of what it is like and choose not to be parents having that general knowledge. It is just annoying to me to hear completely wrong ideas of what being a parent is actually like and "that is the reason I don't want kids. Because they scream and run around, and poop and vomit all over the place and take all my money and I'd have no free time".

"I am just not interested in having kids. I have no desire to raise a child" is pretty dang valid to me. The other one, not really, because that isn't how it is like for 90% of parents 95% of the time. "I never really considered it" is another perfectly valid reason. Heck, basically any reason other than "this is a long list of innaccurate assumptions and/or predjudices" is a perfectly valid reason to me.

 

[azazel1024]

No, of course not. Hyperbole, maybe, condescending, sure, but definitely not "hate filled." Why would I hate someone who got tricked?

And "tricked" may have been overstating it, but I do feel there is an undeniable element of deception, or at the very least omission of information. My sister-in-law had a baby just over a year ago, and a few months later she confided in us, "I had no idea it would be this hard." Why might that be? Why wouldn't anyone who presumably loved her and had been through the process (i.e., any relative with children) have educated her in all the difficulties she was going to face?

It is quite possible no one did even a little bit. I'd think it was probably a totally wrong assumption to think that though, unless she doesn't have any friends or family who have relatively young kids (let's say, under 10 or 12).

My wife and I had a couple of friends with kids before we ever had an opps. Heard plenty of stores. Had warnings. You know what though, until you experience it, you CANNOT know. Other things I found out, I couldn't wrap my head around how amazing it is to have a little human run up to you and wrap their arms around your legs and try to crush them while sqealing "DADDY, I LOVE YOU!"

Almost every friend I have who has had kids has mentioned it is harder than they really though, but they also love it so much.

If I told you how tired you'd be after force marching 35 miles with a 50lb pack and 3,800ft vertical change from 7am until 11pm...you might have a concept that you are going to exhausted and sore. However, if you've never done anything like that, intellecutually knowing it and then emotionally and physically understanding it after the fact are COMPLETELY different things. You'll probably find that your physical and emotional understanding is not exactly on the level with your intellectual understanding of that.

I don't see that is being tricked. I see that as a life experience that doesn't exactly jive with your ability to intellectually understand it until you've experienced it.

On your reasons for not having kids, at least talking about the money, I really do understand. I am thrifty-ish. I had a pretty comfortable upbringing, buy my parents were thrifty people. My wife isn't really, even though she had a fairly similar upbringing. She doesn't just light it on fire, but being thrifty isn't nearly as important to her as it is to me. However, I knew I could, more likely than not, raise my kids with a good standard of living and eventually save for retirement, etc. Heck, I've been saving for retirement all along, even with kids and have a pretty comfortable nest egg. At 32, no, I would NOT want to retire on what I have saved right now, but I am well on track. Heck, my retirement account has more in it than my equity in my house and my rental house combined plus all of my bank accounts and my kids' college investments combined (though, not by much). The thought of debt drives me up a wall. I've had a car loan, a tiny one that took me 2 weeks to secure, because I had to talk to almost a dozen banks before I could get one that small (no one wanted to give me one under $10,000, for my little $7k car loan, they were only willing to give me a personal loan...at personal loan rates). I could have saved up another 5 or 6 months and buy the car clean and clear, but I wanted a small loan to build my credit, because I was only a year out of college and renting. I wanted more credit history so that I could buy a house in another 2-3 years.

Paid off the 3 year car loan 6 months early because I couldn't stand to have the loan any longer. Borrowed a little money from my father-in-law when we bought our last car. Drove me up a wall that we owed my wife's parents money, so we paid them back a year earlier than we had said we would.

Only other debt I/we have ever had are our mortgages, which we aren't remotely under water on, because of large down payments and significantly improving the properties.

If I hadn't thought I could provide my kids with a good standard of living, and myself and my wife, I never would have had kids. Or I would have had fewer kids. Heck, part of why we stopped at 3 instead of having a 4th is because I didn't think we could have a good enough standard of living if we had a 4th. I am still a little bitter that we haven't had a 4th, but at this point, I am too far past having babies to really want to have another one.

Until I had my own, I never really liked kids too much. I was very much in the boat of "good for other people". Heck, in part I wanted kids for the non-mistaken belief of "I'll love my own". I do. Most other people's kids, at least young kids, I could mostly careless about. I don't really enjoy it when my wife or I or we "babysit" other people's kids. I blow a huge sigh of relief when the parents swing back by and pick their kid(s) up. One of two friends' kids, I like, but even most of the good ones...I'd be okay without them around.

My wife's cousin's daughters, I like though. Not a huge fan of having 5 kids running around wound up when they come over, but I do like them. I am really looking forward to my brother-in-law and sister-in-law having kids.

 

[Gavin C]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRoSL0kdQFk

One of the greatest shows made. Gotta get myself up to the Dakotas for a beer, ahem, ...family trip. TAXI!!!!!

 

[Psylocide]

One of the greatest shows made. Gotta get myself up to the Dakotas for a beer, ahem, ...family trip. TAXI!!!!!

I heard that.

Yeah... take the family pheasant hunting or something, haha.

Or swing through on your way to see 4 guys faces carved into rock.

Or come to my town to see our majestic falls and homeless people.

Breathtaking, isn't it?

 

[CreamyGoodness]

Im a stickler for wording (if not spelling and grammar, which gets worse the more I type) so I have to insist we as a people agree on what the word "accident" means in this context. If two different sexed people engage in sexual relations without the protection of birth control, any progeny that might come into the world as a result may very well be a surprise... but it sure isn't an accident.

I'm not really calling azazel out on this because in his context it doesn't matter all that much. He wanted kids, his wife wanted kids, they just didn't keep a journal of his wife's vaginal temperature and actively find the night most likely to produce a fertilized egg.

What ACTUALLY really pisses me off is these people with 7 kids on Super Nanny crying that their last 6 were "an accident". No... they weren't.

SessionalGoodness was no accident. But I'll be damned if he wasn't one hell of a surprise.

 

[kombat]

While we're nitpicking terminology, folks who deliberately choose not to have children prefer the term "child free" to "childless."

"Childless" implies we're missing out on something implicitly desirable. eg. Homeless, penniless, hopeless.

"Child Free" implies we're unburdened by something undesirable (which is true, for us). eg. Cancer free, debt free, disease free.

 

[CreamyGoodness]

Id rather not think of my son in the same vane as a disease...

 

[Mismost]

I love kids.....I just can't eat a whole one by myself! Grocho Marx (I think)

There is one thing no one has mentioned in this whole thread. Kids have the ability to speed up time, and that's a fact. We brought our daughter home from the hospital and about 3 months later (it seemed) she graduated from college!

BTW, I am now blissfully childless...but really digging this GrandDaddy stuff.

 

[Gavin C]

You lost me at "choice to choose"... gotta keep it simple here man, I draw straight lines all day.

No lyin' here. I've seen him design a rocket ship. All straight lines.

 

[azazel1024]

Im a stickler for wording (if not spelling and grammar, which gets worse the more I type) so I have to insist we as a people agree on what the word "accident" means in this context. If two different sexed people engage in sexual relations without the protection of birth control, any progeny that might come into the world as a result may very well be a surprise... but it sure isn't an accident.

I'm not really calling azazel out on this because in his context it doesn't matter all that much. He wanted kids, his wife wanted kids, they just didn't keep a journal of his wife's vaginal temperature and actively find the night most likely to produce a fertilized egg.

What ACTUALLY really pisses me off is these people with 7 kids on Super Nanny crying that their last 6 were "an accident". No... they weren't.

SessionalGoodness was no accident. But I'll be damned if he wasn't one hell of a surprise.

Well, the first the condom broke. So, yeah, an accident. On the other "sort of accident", based on the time of the month, there should have been no way my wife should have been able to get pregnant...but apparently it was the one time in 100 that she ovulated about 8 days late.

So I don't think my choice of words is wrong. We've made damned sure that an accident can't occur. I certainly wouldn't call either of them unintentional pregnancies, because I think that would imply more that we didn't intend to have the children. If that was the case, my wife would have gotten an abortion. Was the intercourse intentional? Absolutely, but in one case something went wrong...I think an accident is appropriate term. In the other case, under normal circumstances, she shouldn't have been able to get pregnant.

I'll grant you, unless you have the worst case of luck in the universe, you don't accidently have 6 kids. They might not have planned to have that many, but there comes a point where you make danged sure whatever you are doing and however you are doing it doesn't result in more kids.

 

[hunter_le five]

I was an accident. A happy accident. Well, maybe not the first 5 years, but after that I got pretty chill.

My parents were going for their second child, got preggers according to plan. Surprise! I am also in there too! Screw your plan!

I'm surprised she never drowned me in the tub.

 

[TheCADJockey]

No lyin' here. I've seen him design a rocket ship. All straight lines.

It didn't do too bad.

Haters gonna hate.

 

[hunter_le five]

Kraft: Easy Cheese, sharp cheddar, 8 oz. can....

Straight from the can, maybe between a couple Ritz crackers so when you squeeze them it comes out the holes. Yeah.. the stuff of dreams.

You disgust me.

 

[CreamyGoodness]

Ok... a twin or triplet could be accurately considered an accident.

These 60 year olds who go to fertility centers and have 9 at one sitting, though... not so much.

Not even surprising at this point.

 

[TheCADJockey]

You disgust me.

You reek of jealousy.

 

[BadWolfBrewing]

Landana 1000 day is one of my favorites... it's $19.99/lb but so worth it.

I was born and raised in WI, and I sure miss it. Especially the cheese. Hooke's 10 yr cheddar is mind blowing. Now and then I can find it here, but for crazy expensive.

I heard they just released a 20 yr cheddar, for $209 a pound. Some friends of mine went in on a quarter pound, I'm hoping I get a chance to try it.

Can't find crap around here in IN. Very cheese deprived. All we have in this state are all sorts of fireworks and religion. 3 floyds is good, but even here zombie dust is impossible to find.

 

[CreamyGoodness]

Can't find crap around here in IN. Very cheese deprived. All we have in this state are all sorts of fireworks and religion. 3 floyds is good, but even here zombie dust is impossible to find.

Are any of these Murray's Kroger locations close enough to you or a loved-one to visit?

http://www.murrayscheese.com/locations/?location=126

 

[Psylocide]

I was born and raised in WI, and I sure miss it. Especially the cheese. Hooke's 10 yr cheddar is mind blowing. Now and then I can find it here, but for crazy expensive.

I heard they just released a 20 yr cheddar, for $209 a pound. Some friends of mine went in on a quarter pound, I'm hoping I get a chance to try it.

Can't find crap around here in IN. Very cheese deprived. All we have in this state are all sorts of fireworks and religion. 3 floyds is good, but even here zombie dust is impossible to find.

Damn... I could get down on some 20 yr cheddar.

"I'll take an oz please.

Oh, only $13? Cool."

 

[TheCADJockey]

Bunch of baby hating cheese snobs in this thread.

There. I said it.

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

Yeah I know a few people tricked in to having kids. I know more who accidently had kids. Even more who intentionally had kids, or it was a happy accident, because they wanted kids anyway.

My only hate is people who hate on others' decisions to either have kids or not have kids. Or generalize (often wrongly) about a populace because of their decision.

Like "Oh, I hate parents because I've had some who can't be bothered to pay attention to where they are pushing a stroller or cart or something". Wait...so kids are bad and parents are bad because a tiny number do that? I guess I should hate childless adults because I've run in to some of them who are rude and/or oblivious also? That just doesn't make sense to me.

Or, "I've suffered some screaming kid in a store who's parent couldn't be bothered to shut them up"...because they are a dog that can just be beaten in to shutting up. Yeah, we all suffer other people's decisions. The people I hate are the ones who are grown adults who act like rotten kids. Having worked customer service before, I've suffered a lot more seeing a grown adult who went on an anger bender over nothing or was acting like a special little snowflake. They don't have the execuse, a 4 year old at least doesn't have the life experiences and impulse control to necessarily handle themselves.

I generalize in these cases because its not socially acceptable to ask those parents to leave the area with their children. I understand its impossible to stop children in a lot of cases because they do not have impulse control like (most) adults do. Removing the child from the area so it doesn't disturb other people is acceptable and its a good solution to the problem, no you dont need to beat your child, but removing the disturbance is a good way to deal with the issue.

There is a big big big BUT here.

BUT, when that parent runs over my foot with their stroller and looks at me like its my fault, or when that parent has their screaming child in a restaurant and does not remove them from the area, or has a screaming child in a PG-13/R rated movie theater and does not take them out of the theater. Yes, then I think the parent is the problem, not the child. (if I am sitting in a theater and watching like, the Lego Movie or Shrek, as examples, and theres a screaming child, I'll be peaved, but its a childrens movie, if I am watching ******* the Movie, and I see 3 toddlers that couldn't be more than 6 years old a piece, and they're talking and screaming during the movie, then yes, I have a problem)

No, I am not suggesting you beat the children, at all. I am also not suggesting you cannot go out in public with your child. Lets be completely honest though, if you are in a semi-nice restaurant, or a movie theater and its some PG13 or higher movie playing, do you really think its acceptable to just let the kid scream it out? The world doesn't cater to the child-less, nor should it cater to the child-ed either. If someone let their dog sit outside your house and bark all night long keeping your kids up through out the night, you'd be pretty peaved too wouldnt you? I am not equating children to dogs, but some pets have about the same impulse control as children do.

 

[blizz81]

Some friends of mine went in on a quarter pound, I'm hoping I get a chance to try it.

With no other context, how many guesses would it take to get to "what is: cheddar"? I'm thinking 214.

 

[motobrewer]

i'm just waiting for the "blissfully married-free" thread.

 

[blizz81]

i'm just waiting for the "blissfully married-free" thread.

Says someone obviously tricked into marriage!