Blending Hop Characteristics

[BendBrewer]

Just getting into the Brewing thing having a knack for cooking that I consider a curse. If I don't cook it, I find it hard to eat and am a heckuva tough critic of others that try. I don't want to be, but that's the way it is. (I wish I had this problem with the Guitar, but anyway.)

When creating food, there is a tendency to make sure that the flavors blend from one to another and this too has to do with how much of an ingredient and when it is introduced to the dish. Rule of thumb, last in = first tasted.

So this brings me to the common Hop additions that I have seen in recipes. 60/30/15 or 60/15/5 in terms of boil time, but I rarely see a blending of the different Hops and their characteristics that a chef might expect to see in recipes and am wondering if any of you have played around with mixing the types of hops used at each addition.

For example, if using Chinook hops for Bittering, Centennial for Flavor and Willamette for Aroma.

60 minute Boil = 85% Chinook, 10% Centennial and 5% Willamette

15 minute Boil = 10% Chinook, 80% Centennial and 10 % Willamette

5 minute Boil = 5% Chinook, 10% Centennial and 85% Willamette.

Or should I stick with Roasts and Soups?

Thanks and glad to join. Been reading your posts for a couple of weeks now.

 

[david_42]

People do mix hops. My 3CPA recipe uses Columbus and Chinook for bittering, then a mix of Perle, Amarillo and Cascade for flavor, aroma and dry hopping. Tasted like pineapple juice.

Widmer blends hops to produce 'Alchemy' and they use that for most of their beers.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

I would guess that when you start mixing them down to 5% or so, you're not getting a lot of taste/aroma out of that small of an amount.

 

[Clonefarmer]

Blending hops for flavor and aroma additions works really well IMO. I tend to stick with hops that are similar, but there are some great beers made with contrasting hops.

 

[Yooper]

Blending hops for flavor and aroma additions works really well IMO. I tend to stick with hops that are similar, but there are some great beers made with contrasting hops.

Yes, I agree. However, if you don't really blend the correct hops you can get a "muddy" flavor instead of a clean hops flavor. Mixing them can be synergistic- like simcoe and amarillo together, definitely greater than the sum of their parts. Or you can get an awful bland muddy flavor without distinction. You wouldn't want to mix noble hops with citrusy hops, for example, because the citrus would overpower the subtle spiciness of the noble hops.

Very much like cooking, I'd say! If you use sage and rosemary in the right mix, your turkey is heavenly. Mixing all of the herbs in your cupboard, though, wouldn't be very good. You'd end up with a muddy flavor. Some hops mix well, some do not. Just like in food.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Since aroma/flavor oils are boiled off after a certain amount of time, combining bittering hops won't be noticed. That aside, I do like how you have a main flavoring variety and main aroma variety with the others in there to a smaller degree.

 

[Newbeerguy]

Yes, I agree. However, if you don't really blend the correct hops you can get a "muddy" flavor instead of a clean hops flavor. Mixing them can be synergistic- like simcoe and amarillo together, definitely greater than the sum of their parts. Or you can get an awful bland muddy flavor without distinction. You wouldn't want to mix noble hops with citrusy hops, for example, because the citrus would overpower the subtle spiciness of the noble hops.

Very much like cooking, I'd say! If you use sage and rosemary in the right mix, your turkey is heavenly. Mixing all of the herbs in your cupboard, though, wouldn't be very good. You'd end up with a muddy flavor. Some hops mix well, some do not. Just like in food.

We need to get a thread going about hop pairing....that to me is the hardest thing to do when making a recipe. I just don't have the experiance to know what hops pair well together.
Any suggestions?

 

[philrose]

A lot of brewers will tell you that a chef's intuition is hard to adapt to brewing.

Brewing is so process driven that a well made beer with so-so ingredients will turn out much better than a so-so brewed beer with top quality ingredients.

But yes, by all means blend your hops, malts and even yeasts when you have a good guess/idea of how they'll taste in the final product. This means learning the process from top to bottom. Not just hop addition times but also
-chilling so important for hop flavors, many different ways lock in hoppy goodness
-yeast floc
-boiloff rate

just to name a few things that are not ingredients that have a drastic effect on your hop character.

Welcome to the forum fellow pacNW'r

 

[Newbeerguy]

A lot of brewers will tell you that a chef's intuition is hard to adapt to brewing.

Brewing is so process driven that a well made beer with so-so ingredients will turn out much better than a so-so brewed beer with top quality ingredients.

But yes, by all means blend your hops, malts and even yeasts when you have a good guess/idea of how they'll taste in the final product. This means learning the process from top to bottom. Not just hop addition times but also
-chilling so important for hop flavors, many different ways lock in hoppy goodness
-yeast floc
-boiloff rate

just to name a few things that are not ingredients that have a drastic effect on your hop character.

Welcome to the forum fellow pacNW'r

Phil, I see in your sig. that you have bottled Evil Twin....have you tried this yet? I am going to be making it here within the month. Also how do you chill? I am very intigued with the large late hop additions. I was also planning a late hopped black IPA....so with this thread about hop blending I was hoping to find some good pairs.

 

[Yooper]

We need to get a thread going about hop pairing....that to me is the hardest thing to do when making a recipe. I just don't have the experiance to know what hops pair well together.
Any suggestions?

Well, as David_42 mentioned, the C hops go well together. I have mixed chinook, cascade, centennial and even columbus in the same recipes with great results.

"English" hops go together pretty well. Fuggles and EKG are pretty complimentary.

Generally the same type of hops go well together. Some combos are great, even if they are a bit dissimilar. Like the aforementioned simcoe and amarillo.

I'd suggest looking at some establish recipes, just to see who mixes what hops. It'll tell you a lot about the hops, just knowing what style beer you see them in and what ingredients they "go with". For example, you may not see a Munich malt grain bill with chinook hops. But you may see Munich with hallertauer, Mt. Hood, saaz, etc. There usually is pretty good reason- but sometimes it's just to make the beer stylistically appropriate.

I made a beer with homegrown hallertauer hops. It did have Munich malt in it, but I was going for an American amber. Guess what? The beer had a determined German ale flavor to it. American hops would have been kind of weird in that, so I'm glad I used the hallertauer.

I have a pound of willamette hops I want to use. But I don't know what to use it in, so I'm looking into hops additions and mixtures myself right now. I think that will be part of the fun of brewing.

 

[Newbeerguy]

Well, as David_42 mentioned, the C hops go well together. I have mixed chinook, cascade, centennial and even columbus in the same recipes with great results.

"English" hops go together pretty well. Fuggles and EKG are pretty complimentary.

Generally the same type of hops go well together. Some combos are great, even if they are a bit dissimilar. Like the aforementioned simcoe and amarillo.

I'd suggest looking at some establish recipes, just to see who mixes what hops. It'll tell you a lot about the hops, just knowing what style beer you see them in and what ingredients they "go with". For example, you may not see a Munich malt grain bill with chinook hops. But you may see Munich with hallertauer, Mt. Hood, saaz, etc. There usually is pretty good reason- but sometimes it's just to make the beer stylistically appropriate.

I made a beer with homegrown hallertauer hops. It did have Munich malt in it, but I was going for an American amber. Guess what? The beer had a determined German ale flavor to it. American hops would have been kind of weird in that, so I'm glad I used the hallertauer.

I have a pound of willamette hops I want to use. But I don't know what to use it in, so I'm looking into hops additions and mixtures myself right now. I think that will be part of the fun of brewing.

Thanks Yooper, that is a start! I too am exploring mixing hops and large late hop additions. To me, since there are so many choices, it is overwhelming. I don't have alot of experiance with alot of different hops, so I am not always sure what to expect, but I have been searching through the recipe database and I have already based a few recipes from them. It all has been very helpful.

 

[zodiak3000]

i dont mean to jack this thread, but anybody have good results with simcoe and cascade mixed? i flamed out with amarillo and cascade and now i got simcoe and cascade dry hoppin my IPA...

 

[Fat Guy Brewing]

When people ask me what homebrewing is like, I tell them its like cooking a meal but you can't taste it for 6 weeks. Then tweek your recipe and start over.

 

[philrose]

Phil, I see in your sig. that you have bottled Evil Twin....have you tried this yet? I am going to be making it here within the month. Also how do you chill? I am very intigued with the large late hop additions. I was also planning a late hopped black IPA....so with this thread about hop blending I was hoping to find some good pairs.

Evil twin is a great recipe. it's probably the best showcase for Amarillo hops that I've ever tasted. The hop flavor is very smooth across the tongue. Big aroma too, I really like that beer. I was in San Diego last week and looked all over for the commercial inspiration (alesmith's evil dead red), but I guess it's seasonal only.

I chilled that batch with my IC, while pumping that sucker up and down to maximize copper/wort contact.

 

[BendBrewer]

Wow, I really appreciate the responses guys. I don't really know why it has taken me so long to start home brewing. When I say I have a chefs' background, I didn't mention that I was the Chef at Deschutes Brewery. Since leaving that trade 9 years ago I have been a Director of Operations for a Corporate Services firm creating and perfecting Processes.

This is a natural hobby for a guy like me.

How many batches should I have under my belt before I start designing Mash Tuns and gravity systems? I'm thinking 1 isn't really enough but I can't seem to help myself.

Again, thanks for the welcome. I have a lot to learn and can't wait. (Home Brewing seems to be helping me with that problem too. PATEINCE.)

 

[philrose]

How many batches should I have under my belt before I start designing Mash Tuns and gravity systems? I'm thinking 1 isn't really enough but I can't seem to help myself.

Go for it, I have a feeling we wont be able to stop you .

 

[Fat Guy Brewing]

I meant to say before, the original question is a very good one.

Some say they brew one time and know they will eventually switch to all grain. IMO, a big breakthrough is when you stop buying kits and make your own recipes (or copy ones from here) and buy raw ingredients. I did extract brewing for a few years then switched to PM last year. Check out the equipment gallery on the site and that should give you some ideas for down the road.