Blender for a yeast starter?

[bjl110]

I found one old thread on this but no one seemed to actually have any answers. Is there any reason that you can't use a blender on the lowest setting for a yeast starter? Has anyone tried this? It sounds like such a simple solution that someone has to have tried it, right?

 

[Ryush806]

Why don't you try it and see if it works and report back! Just keep a pack of dry yeast handy in case it's a super failure so you can still ferment your wort.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

I guess I don't see why it wouldn't work except all the plastic and rubber seems rather difficult to sanitize even if you break down the blender to sanitize. I would also be concerned that long term exposure to liquids might cause the blades to rust. I don't think they are made out of stainless steel or anything that won't rust.

 

[iambeer]

hmmm blenders get hot and they are noisy. ... sounds inconvenient for all parties involved.

Another easy alternative is to take an extra day or two for your starter... stirring just speeds up the process, it's not necessary. (from what I understand).

 

[studmonk3y]

Stir plates speed things up a bit, but they are mostly used because it's the most efficient way to build starters (e.g. you might only have to make a 1L starter on a stir plate vs. a 3L starter with no shaking).

I say give it a go. But I think it's not been done because blenders are: 1) loud, 2)don't run at a slow enough speed (you only need a small dimple in the surface, too fast and you can rupture cell walls), 3) the motors are not meant to run continuously for days.

 

[bjl110]

Yeah, the speed was really my only concern. I bet they'd be too fast, even on the lowest setting. That's what the other thread mentioned too, but I just wanted to see if anyone has ever tried. I'd try it myself, but I don't have a blender. I was just thinking that a blender is cheaper than buying a stirplate, and less fuss than building one, so if someone had tried it I'd give it a shot. That said, I kinda figured everyone would be doing it if it worked. Yardsale season is coming up though... I might try to nab a blender if I can get one cheap.

 

[studmonk3y]

Like most things brewing related, a stir plate can be as expensive or cheap (and ugly) as you want it to be and still work great. There's tons of threads on here on how to build cheap DC stirplates. Honestly it's nothing more than some parts that you may have laying around already: fan (from a scrapped desktop pc), magnet (from dead hard drive from same scrapped computer or from computer repair centers), power supply (could use a desktop psu from old pc if you really wanted to, otherwise cheap wall wort/transformer), speed control ($2 potentiometer or $4 PWM from china/ebay if you want to get fancy), case (free cigar box from tobacco shop, old tupperware, etc.).
I'd try nabbing an old desktop pc over a blender at a yard sale.

 

[beergolf]

A blender is too fast even at the slowest speed.

If you are handy you can build a stir plate..

If you are not look into a Stirstarter Stir plate. Best $40 I have spent on brewing equipment.

 

[bjl110]

Yeah, I've read the DIY stirplate threads and watched some vids. I'm not even close to what you would refer to as handy, but building one is probably what I'll end up doing. I know some computer guys, so spare parts aren't a cost or a problem finding really. It's just messing with it all. When it comes down to it, I'd much rather spend the time brewing instead of building. I just figured if there was a cheap (I know cheap is a relative term, but I mean less than ~$15-20) hassle free way, I'd go that route. If not, building it will be. You know what they say, "if you build it, beer will come".

Edit: Maybe I'll entice one of my more handy friends with a twelve pack.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

Yeah, the speed was really my only concern.

Really?! The speed setting was your only concern? No concern for the fact that a blender would be near impossible to keep sanitary? Or that someone's used blender is the last thing you'd want to be in the same room as your starter, much less blending it into a yeastshake. Or that even at it's lowest speed it will probably not be friendly to your yeast (it's a blender, it blends things by pulverizing and chopping them into little tiny pieces....)
I'm guessing you're thinking this would be a good alternative to a stir plate..... just get/make a stir plate, man. Or skip the plate and swirl/shake your starters, either will probably work a lot better than a garage sale blender.

 

[BigTerp]

a blender is too fast even at the slowest speed.

If you are handy you can build a stir plate..

if you are not look into a stirstarter stir plate. Best $40 i have spent on brewing equipment.

this

 

[iambeer]

Really? Because it fastens yeast growth or is there more to it?

 

[ak-71]

I am building myself one (started yesterday), I wanted a nice looking one, so it's "expensive"
if you have some old computer speakers (power supply, speed control), computer fan and old hard drive (magnet) it's free for the plate itself. Look at youtube for DIY stirplate.
I bought a nicer looking switch (5$) and a 5$ comp. fan and (if I don't use tung oil I have) may buy something to coat the cigar box to make it "water proof" (Box was free from a very friendly cigar store man)
It's still way cheaper than a 120$ plate local store sells and it will look better too

 

[ak-71]

Really? Because it fastens yeast growth or is there more to it?

My other goal is to make the starter smaller, so that I don't have to add 10% of a crappy "beer" to a good recipe. Plus Brewmaster show I need way less yeast to start with. I figured it worth a try for 10$ . I didn't pour the starter liquid out nor cooled it though, not quite understand when yeast gets stressed and when not yet.

 

[signpost]

A blender is too fast even at the slowest speed.

If you are handy you can build a stir plate..

If you are not look into a Stirstarter Stir plate. Best $40 I have spent on brewing equipment.

Wow, I thought. $40? I can do that!

Then I looked it up. He must've raised the price since you got yours, because it is $70 now. Or I found the wrong site.

http://www.stirstarters.com/index.html

edit: And then I find these links

https://bellsbeer.com/store/products/StirStarter-%2d-Yeast-Starter-Stir-Plate.html

http://www.homebrewing.org/The-Stirstarter-Yeast-Stir-Plate-_p_1306.html

Yup, I originally found the wrong site.

 

[bjl110]

Really?! The speed setting was your only concern? No concern for the fact that a blender would be near impossible to keep sanitary? Or that someone's used blender is the last thing you'd want to be in the same room as your starter, much less blending it into a yeastshake. Or that even at it's lowest speed it will probably not be friendly to your yeast (it's a blender, it blends things by pulverizing and chopping them into little tiny pieces....)
I'm guessing you're thinking this would be a good alternative to a stir plate..... just get/make a stir plate, man. Or skip the plate and swirl/shake your starters, either will probably work a lot better than a garage sale blender.

Yup. It was my *only worry*. You know why? Because I'm pretty lax about cleaning and have not had an infected batch. I leave the wort in the "danger zone" for hours unopened (when it is cooling overnight), and I still make great beer. I brew in an unfinished basement. Dirt and mold are everywhere. Still have never had an infection. Everything gets starsan before beer gets put in it, and I've never had a problem. I think most people are far too concerned with this. Yeah, it's important, but I'm pretty sure that beer has been made for centuries without clean room conditions. I think pitching and fermentation temps are far more important. I've had bad batches because of them, but not because of sanitation.

 

[brewit2it]

If you decide to try the blender you could just put it on the lowest setting then pulse it for a second or so every time you walked by. You wouldn't want to leave it on for hours because it would burn out very quickly.

Maybe if you hooked up a dimmer switch so that you drop the current way down on the motor to where it was just barely turning you might be able to run it like that continuously. On the other hand you might burn your house down so proceed at your own risk LOL.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

Yup. It was my *only worry*. You know why? Because I'm pretty lax about cleaning and have not had an infected batch. I leave the wort in the "danger zone" for hours unopened (when it is cooling overnight), and I still make great beer. I brew in an unfinished basement. Dirt and mold are everywhere. Still have never had an infection. Everything gets starsan before beer gets put in it, and I've never had a problem. I think most people are far too concerned with this. Yeah, it's important, but I'm pretty sure that beer has been made for centuries without clean room conditions. I think pitching and fermentation temps are far more important. I've had bad batches because of them, but not because of sanitation.

I agree that pitching rates and fermentation temps are probably the most important part of the brewing process, but to downplay sanitation is just silly. Infected batches are a rarity to begin with, and you could probably get away with little or no sanitation 9 out of ten times without infection. But let's be real, doesn't it make more sense to virtually eliminate that risk altogether than it does to proclaim that sanitation is overrated? Or unnecessary 'cause medieval brewers knew nothing about microbes? C'mon man, if you applied that theory to the rest of your life.... well, c'mon man.

 

[TimpanogosSlim]

Yup. It was my *only worry*. You know why? Because I'm pretty lax about cleaning and have not had an infected batch. I leave the wort in the "danger zone" for hours unopened (when it is cooling overnight), and I still make great beer. I brew in an unfinished basement. Dirt and mold are everywhere. Still have never had an infection. Everything gets starsan before beer gets put in it, and I've never had a problem. I think most people are far too concerned with this. Yeah, it's important, but I'm pretty sure that beer has been made for centuries without clean room conditions. I think pitching and fermentation temps are far more important. I've had bad batches because of them, but not because of sanitation.

Word.

Monks who's idea of sanitation was emptying their chamber pots out the back window of the abbey and who used open fermenters successfully made beer for hundreds of years.

 

[terrapinj]

Word.

Monks who's idea of sanitation was emptying their chamber pots out the back window of the abbey and who used open fermenters successfully made beer for hundreds of years.

was it consistently good beer? this line of thinking is often cited but doesn't make sense. i think few people simply try to make beer but rather try to make the best consistent beer possible, sanitation is an easy step for piece of mind and replicating consistent results.

why take a risk, esp on a starter

 

[TimpanogosSlim]

was it consistently good beer? this line of thinking is often cited but doesn't make sense. i think few people simply try to make beer but rather try to make the best consistent beer possible, sanitation is an easy step for piece of mind and replicating consistent results.

why take a risk, esp on a starter

Probably not totally consistent, no.

I'm in favor of sanitation. I'm not in favor of losing sleep over sanitation.

 

[Ravenshead]

There are ways to reduce the speed of a blender below it's lowest setting. A variable transformer like this would work as would other variable controls. Hell, a light dimmer might work.

A good overnight soak in Starsan should be sufficient to deal with any sanitation issues as long as you use a new blender and don't use it for anything else. You can get a cheap one from Walmart for under $20.

The only question I would have is how well the motor would hold up. They're designed for high speed and low duty cycles. This application would be the opposite.

Bottom line, I'd try it and may soon.

 

[Ravenshead]

To answer my own post:

I just plugged my kitchen blender into the above variable transformer and it works perfectly. It's running nice and slow with a gentle whirlpool. It's also just as quiet as I would expect a computer fan stir-plate would be. I'll let it go for an hour but I think the motor is going to be fine.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

Word.

Monks who's idea of sanitation was emptying their chamber pots out the back window of the abbey and who used open fermenters successfully made beer for hundreds of years.

You're also talking about a time when beer was usually drank within days of fermentation ending so it didn't spoil...from things that infected the beer.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

You're also talking about a time when beer was usually drank within days of fermentation ending so it didn't spoil...from things that infected the beer.

Thank you!!

This idea that sanitation is overrated because hundreds of years ago beer was brewed without the knowledge of microbes is the most ridiculous thing I've seen on HBT in a long time. (and trust me, people say all sorts of stupid $h!t here every day). Along with not knowing about sanitation due to a lack of knowledge of microbes, brewers back then didn't know that yeast fermented beer. Using that logic, we shouldn't pitch yeast.

I hope this doesn't come off too dick-ish, but it really seems that some of the users here just say things to say them, with little or no understanding of what it is they're saying. Half of the advice you see is just some guy regurgitating what he read in the last thread, whether or not it applies to the current. When I first started brewing and signed up here, I had a lot of questions and 9 out of ten answers were complete garbage. I can only hope that the new brewers out there who're getting bombarded with that same cr@p are like me and reading everything they can on what they're wondering about and not just listening to some of the horse hockey that's passed around here on a daily basis.
And to the perpetrators of such horse$***, please, please, please, if the OP has a question you can't answer, don't answer it. Noone will know that you don't know the answer, so there's no point in making up something, or regurgitating something you read but have no understanding of. It's just silly, and it's really not helpful to those of us who want to make the best beer possible.

Just sayin'........


Rant over

 

[bjl110]

Monks or no Monks here is the deal: I've never had the experience of an infected batch. I do things that would make Palmer headesk. Sanitation has never been an issue. All of you need to take your own advice on the subject and rdwhahb. Is it a concern when trying to make good beer? Sure. I believe other things are way more important to the process though. Am I trying to say that beer from 1300 is all the evidence we need to stop sanitizing forever? You would have to be pretty dumb to think that. My guess is you're just using the time honored tradition of twisting my argument into a straw
man that can easily be knocked down. You guys should work for Karl Rove! However, there is no doubt in my mind though that it is over emphasized, especially over things like temperature. I'm just saying that beer takes care of itself much better than we think it does, and I have no reason to question the method of hitting the vessel with starssan right before it is used. It has worked 100% of the time for me and other brewers I know. Experience, not theory. I assume brewers who are all about sanitation have never tried not being sanitary. Why would you argue your sanitation theory to someone who actually has experience in unsanitary conditions? It doesn't make sense.

"It is better to let them think you are a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt" I forget who said that, maybe Churchill? I totally agree with the sentiment that you shouldn't try to answer the OPs post unless you have some direct, or at least indirect, experience. Ive certainly made the mistake of giving bad advice from no experience. I think everyone has. That said, everyone but one poster shot my theory down with zero experience. Whatever concerns you have, whether they be speed or sanitation based, don't amount to squat if you just have some theory on my theory. Do you have any experience with sanitizing a blender? If so awesome, if not why press the point? Bringing it up once was fair, but to continue to snipe at my feelings on the subject just makes you seem pushy and rude. Especially after I've made it clear i don't feel the need to give myself an ulcer over it. I'm just saying, although the info you gave was valid, it did not answer my question. I think your rant came from the right place, and I've seen you give great advice on other threads, but I think this is one where maybe you should listen to yourself a bit.

 

[bjl110]

To answer my own post:

I just plugged my kitchen blender into the above variable transformer and it works perfectly. It's running nice and slow with a gentle whirlpool. It's also just as quiet as I would expect a computer fan stir-plate would be. I'll let it go for an hour but I think the motor is going to be fine.

...and back to the real subject. Awesome! I don't have a variable transformer, but this is a definite step closer. Did it do fine after an hour?

 

[brewit2it]

...and back to the real subject. Awesome! I don't have a variable transformer, but this is a definite step closer. Did it do fine after an hour?

cough..cough..umm I told you the same thing on post number 17 On the other hand he actually hooked it up and tried it which is much better.

If you have a light dimmer switch you could try that. Just be careful how you wire it since you could cause an electrical fire or electrocute yourself.

Actually you might be able to use one of these:

http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&ke...ex=aps&hvadid=55518108&ref=pd_sl_24aasqjzqo_b

 

[TimpanogosSlim]

cough..cough..umm I told you the same thing on post number 17 On the other hand he actually hooked it up and tried it which is much better.

If you have a light dimmer switch you could try that. Just be careful how you wire it since you could cause an electrical fire or electrocute yourself.

Actually you might be able to use one of these:

http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&ke...ex=aps&hvadid=55518108&ref=pd_sl_24aasqjzqo_b

Or go to Harbor Freight and buy a router speed controller, which is designed for exactly this kind of job:

http://www.harborfreight.com/router-speed-control-43060.html

 

[BradleyBrew]

why not just attach a magnet to the section that spins the blades. Use a mason jar with a stir bar inside it.

genius???

 

[Ravenshead]

Sorry brewit2it, I missed your dimmer reference there.

The motor was doing fine after an hour. I think this will work just fine. The only problem is that a normal blender will only hold 5 cups. I'd like the ability to double that.

I'm thinking a hand blender (smoothie mixer) with some sort of clamping system would be ideal. That way you aren't limited to what container you can use as long as the opening is big enough for the mixer.

BTW: Thanks to the OP, you really got my aggie-engineering juices going here.

 

[terrapinj]

OP did you notice any heat generated by the blade after running it that long?

def could see the capacity limitations being an issue for you, glad you were able to rig something up

 

[Ravenshead]

OP did you notice any heat generated by the blade after running it that long?

I'm not the OP but I'll answer. It would be hard to detect anything other than really gross heat generated by the blade. That said, the thermal mass of the liquid should be more than enough to reject any heat built up by the blade.

Understand, the blade was moving way slower than normal blender operating speeds. Think an order of magnitude or two slower.

 

[bjl110]

Thanks to you Ravenshead for taking the initiative to try it! Too bad about the capacity, I didn't think about that part. Well, I sorta did, but I thought that they were more like ten cups. Its really cool to see the idea tested out though!

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

Monks or no Monks here is the deal: I've never had the experience of an infected batch. I do things that would make Palmer headesk. Sanitation has never been an issue. All of you need to take your own advice on the subject and rdwhahb. Is it a concern when trying to make good beer? Sure. I believe other things are way more important to the process though. Am I trying to say that beer from 1300 is all the evidence we need to stop sanitizing forever? You would have to be pretty dumb to think that. My guess is you're just using the time honored tradition of twisting my argument into a straw
man that can easily be knocked down. You guys should work for Karl Rove! However, there is no doubt in my mind though that it is over emphasized, especially over things like temperature. I'm just saying that beer takes care of itself much better than we think it does, and I have no reason to question the method of hitting the vessel with starssan right before it is used. It has worked 100% of the time for me and other brewers I know. Experience, not theory. I assume brewers who are all about sanitation have never tried not being sanitary. Why would you argue your sanitation theory to someone who actually has experience in unsanitary conditions? It doesn't make sense.

"It is better to let them think you are a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt" I forget who said that, maybe Churchill? I totally agree with the sentiment that you shouldn't try to answer the OPs post unless you have some direct, or at least indirect, experience. Ive certainly made the mistake of giving bad advice from no experience. I think everyone has. That said, everyone but one poster shot my theory down with zero experience. Whatever concerns you have, whether they be speed or sanitation based, don't amount to squat if you just have some theory on my theory. Do you have any experience with sanitizing a blender? If so awesome, if not why press the point? Bringing it up once was fair, but to continue to snipe at my feelings on the subject just makes you seem pushy and rude. Especially after I've made it clear i don't feel the need to give myself an ulcer over it. I'm just saying, although the info you gave was valid, it did not answer my question. I think your rant came from the right place, and I've seen you give great advice on other threads, but I think this is one where maybe you should listen to yourself a bit.

Guess I'll give good ol' Karl a call, he'll listen to me. Maybe it has something to do with humpday, or maybe it's something in the water that's causing our collective skin to wear thin, but I've never found myself making the following statement more than once a week, much less for the 3rd time today; It will never cease to amaze me what some people consider logical thought.

FWIW, noone tried to 'shoot your idea down', some of us simply pointed out the obvious concern over sanitizing a garage sale blender. You then went on and on about how over rated sanitation was, blah, blah, monks didn't have star san, yadda yadda. I don't think I'm alone in thinking that it's silly to downplay sanitation based on your logic of 14th century brewers not understanding microbial life.

Let's just agree to disagree, you use your blender to make starters, I'll use mine for margaritas. We can discuss how both of our plans pan out on the next "does this look infected" thread.

 

[Ravenshead]

Thanks for the kind words. Don't worry about the capacity. I'm certain a hand mixer with a few brackets and clamps will work well with any container. I'll work on bulding one soon.

 

[bjl110]

I don't think I'm alone in thinking that it's silly to downplay sanitation based on your logic of 14th century brewers not understanding microbial life.

Again, this isn't my logic. It is what *you* say my logic is. My logic is: beer has been around for a long time prior to super-sanitation. We can even talk 18-1900s if that suits you. Hell, we can talk 1950s. Between the obvious evidence that beer persists and my evidence that I am lax on cleanliness and have never had an infected batch, it stands to reason that I don't have to give myself an ulcer worrying about it. That's all. Not that microbes don't exist or whatever nonsense you see fit to twist my words into. But, if it makes you feel better to put people down as not as enlightened as yourself, go for it. You won't make many friends that way though.

 

[bjl110]

Thanks for the kind words. Don't worry about the capacity. I'm certain a hand mixer with a few brackets and clamps will work well with any container. I'll work on bulding one soon.

If you would post a pic or link to your hand blender experiment on this thread, I would be very interested to see it. Thanks again!

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

You won't make many friends that way though.

Awww, should I cry now? Sorry if I hurt your feelings by disagreeing with you, or as you put is, 'twisting your words', but when you say something people disagree with, they may disagree with you. I wasn't the only one who pointed out the flaw in your claim of sanitation, just the most outspoken one. Obviously you believe what ya will, as do I. Like I said, that's f'n awesome, go on with your plan, and next time before you ask for other's input, think about whether or not you actually care what other's may have to say. One of the most annoying things on these forums is an OP asking if something works, or is a good idea, then getting all pi$$y when the responses aren't what they hoped for.

 

[paulster2626]

Sanitation is drastically overrated. It's important, but you don't need to wear a condom when you pitch your yeast like some people do. Err, wait.