New England IPA Blasphemy - No Boil NEIPA

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Dgallo

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Love that color can’t believe it’s no boil. What did you use dme wise?
Name: Johnny Cash (rule breaker)

Fermetables;
6lbs Pilsner Lite DME
3 lbs Golden Lite DME
1 lbs Bav. Wheat
2 lbs flaked Barley steeped @160

All mosaic hops

Yeast: Omega 091 - Horn. Kviek
OG: 1.081
FG: 1.014
Abv: 8.79%

Steeped flaked Barley for 30 at 160

Brought wort to 180* for 30 mins for a 5 oz whirlpool and to pasteurized.

Cooled to 100*f and pitch 1/2 pack of kviek. Over built a starter with the other 1/2 for future use

Hit fg in like 58 hours

Soft crashed to 50* to drop yeast 36 hours. Warmed to 60;

1st dryhop 3 days til keg 2.5 oz Mosiac pellet & 1 oz cryo

2nd dryhop the same 1.5 days til kegging
 

Dgallo

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Yeah i added it all at 160* before steeping the grains then raised to 180* for whirlpool and pasteurization. I know you can pasteurize at a lower for a longer period of time but I used 180 specifically for the whirlpool to pick up a few more ibus than I would at lower temps
 

BrewnWKopperKat

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Yeah i added it all at 160* before steeping the grains then raised to 180* for whirlpool
Thanks!

The curiosity behind my question was on final beer color, "boil" time, and the common practice of adding 50-75% of malt extract late in the "boil".

Based on the results that you got, it appears that DME doesn't darken much (if at all) at 180* for 30 minutes. With my "Hop Sampler" and "no boil (pasteurize)"/"Hop stand" recipes, and DME, I also add it all early in the process - and the color comes out as expected.

It may be time for me to brew a 60 min DME SMaSH* and a BBR "Hop Sampler" side by side to compare color and bitterness.













* Single dry Malt extract and Single Hop!?! o_O ;)
 

Dgallo

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Thanks!

The curiosity behind my question was on final beer color, "boil" time, and the common practice of adding 50-75% of malt extract late in the "boil".

Based on the results that you got, it appears that DME doesn't darken much (if at all) at 180* for 30 minutes. With my "Hop Sampler" and "no boil (pasteurize)"/"Hop stand" recipes, and DME, I also add it all early in the process - and the color comes out as expected.

It may be time for me to brew a 60 min DME SMaSH* and a BBR "Hop Sampler" side by side to compare color and bitterness.













* Single dry Malt extract and Single Hop!?! o_O ;)
Sound like a cool experiment. If you do it I’d love to see your results.

My color also benefits because I have an absolute closed FV with co2 and liquid post on the lid. During fermentation the co2 post is connected to two piggybacked kegs to completely purge them of o2 with the blowoff. Then I run the co2 down the FV diptube when dryhoping so no o2 enters. Finally I’ll cold crash 2psi of pressure and then close transfer to the serving keg. That also helps maintain the color. This was the same beer at 8 weeks in the keg. The brightness really held up well
AFF63EB3-006E-4CC9-9E40-6F5820AA6CC9.jpeg
 

monkey820

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Ok, this is the second time making this delicious brew, and I just want to post what I used, etc.
6lbs DME
2lbs Sugar in the Raw
Water salts according to EZwatercalculator
5.5 gallons 95 degree (F) water
Kviek Hornidal OYL-091
Pure O2
3oz citra
3oz mosaic

Got the tap water running at 95 degrees, then filled the fermentor (SS Brewbucket) with 5.5 gallons of water. Added water salts, fermentables, used a sanitized paint stirrer attached to my drill to mix it all together (Paint stirrer has never touched anything but sanitizer, mashes, and now this.) Hit it with 30 seconds of O2 with a sanitized wand, then pitched the yeast. 24 hours later, put in 6oz of hops. 3 days later, kegged it, burst carbed it overnight, and let it sit for a week. Fantastic. Wouldn't change a thing, except to experiment with different hop combos. Guys in my club are pissed, because it should have more infections than that monkey in Outbreak. Some don't even believe me.
 

tellyho

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This feels like box brownies to me: originally they were add water and bake, but people wanted to feel like they did some work, so the brownie people backed off the recipe and now you add oil and eggs to feel more accomplished.

You CAN make this recipe more complicated. I'm not convinced you need to.
 

monkey820

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Can you share the details?
The reason I didn't include my exact numbers for the salts is because everyone's water is different, and I didn't want anyone to just go off my numbers thinking they were one size fits all. I believe it was 2 grams gypsum, 2 of epsom salts, 5 of calcium chloride, and 8ml phosphoric acid. This put me in the "acceptable" ranges in the spreadsheet, and predicted the beer would be balanced. http://www.ezwatercalculator.com/

As far as pasteurization goes, with the kviek, it's going within an hour, and I don't mean light bubbles. Full chugging, yeast coming out of the blowoff tube. Nothing else has a chance to get a foothold. Until it does.
 

Dgallo

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The reason I didn't include my exact numbers for the salts is because everyone's water is different, and I didn't want anyone to just go off my numbers thinking they were one size fits all. I believe it was 2 grams gypsum, 2 of epsom salts, 5 of calcium chloride, and 8ml phosphoric acid. This put me in the "acceptable" ranges in the spreadsheet, and predicted the beer would be balanced. http://www.ezwatercalculator.com/

As far as pasteurization goes, with the kviek, it's going within an hour, and I don't mean light bubbles. Full chugging, yeast coming out of the blowoff tube. Nothing else has a chance to get a foothold. Until it does.
The difficult thing about making water adjustments to extract brews is that it is impossible to calculate your ppm of any of your adjustment because you do not know the water profile and additions the extract companies used to the dme or lme. Due to this I would never personally use any mgso4 or epsom salt because if the mg level gets too high the beer will come off tart and harsh. I think your best bet is to use a gram or two of gypsum and call it a day
 

Dgallo

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So with just a dry hop, you are getting a decent amount of BU's or perceived bitterness?
For some people’s taste yes but for me no. I bring my wort to 180 and will whirlpool for 30-45 minutes to pick up some flavor and ibus
 

BrewnWKopperKat

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I downloaded a copy (3.0.2). The drop downs don't show any variety of dry or liquid malt extract. What did you do to get past this?
I just used the drop down for two row. I figured as long as I get in the ballpark, it's better than nothing.
Given that malt extract will contain the minerals from the water used to make the extract, it's doubtful that using it's "base malt" in a "water chemistry" spreadsheet is a reasonable work-around. But sometimes a happy accident occurs. Best wishes for your beer.

:mug:
 

BrewnWKopperKat

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The curiosity behind my question was on final beer color, "boil" time, and the common practice of adding 50-75% of malt extract late in the "boil".
Sound like a cool experiment. If you do it I’d love to see your results.
everything old is new again: Basic Brewing Video, June 20, 2006, starting at about 7:00 for about a minute.
 

tjmac5071

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I transfered a version of this to the keg this morning and I've sampled a couple times tonight and I am very impressed. I rarely if ever use extract because I just never have good results but I decided to make water adjustments and see if that helps out, and I'm not sure if it was the adjustments or recipe but this seems far better than any extract I've had before.

I did things a little odd where I whirlpooled some old Cascade hops around 140-150 in 2 gallons of water with just the sugar (corn), adding an unknown amount periodically as I walked by the stove, then added the dme (all extra light, not wheat) and slowly brought up to 180 and killed the heat and let drop down over an hour or so while I went about my day. I then added this to enough water to get up to 6 gallons into the fermenter. I pitched s04 and fermented around 64 for a a couple days, then let rise to 68ish for a few days and finished off around 71 for a few days. Dropped temp to around 40f for a few days before kegging.

I added 3oz citra, 3oz bru-1 and 2oz centennial around 36 hours post pitch and I adjusted my water with gypsum, calcium chloride and lactic acid. Ignoring contributions from dme, mineral calcs are estimated at: Calcium: 116 Chloride: 111 Sulfate: 126

I am excited to try more versions of these, thanks for the recipe and inspiration!
 

JLeuck64

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I started this recipe over the weekend. I stayed true to the original recipe with just a few changes. I only used 4 gal of water and decided to dry hop with 4 oz. of both Citra and Mosaic. I have been wanting to try fermenting in the keg for a while and this seemed like a good excuse to upgrade some equipment.

Below I just finished adding all the dry ingredients.
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After stirring/shaking everything for a few minutes you can tell there is not much head space left!
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Here you can see the special lid/airlock I purchased so I can ferment in the keg.
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30 hours after pitching yeast I opened up the keg and put in 4oz. each of Citra and Mosaic.
20191230_195454[1].jpg


Here you can see a few more goodies I purchased. Hoping this will make it super simple to purge the serving keg with CO2 as the batch ferments out. I have the gas tube of the ferment keg hooked up to the serving tube on the second keg. Thinking it will fill the serving keg with CO2 over the next week as it ferments out. Later I can swap out the fittings to transfer directly to the serving keg ( ;
20191230_200050[1].jpg
 

monkey820

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If anyone is in the Chicagoland area, D&G Brewing and I "brewed" a barrel of this a few weeks ago, and it's going on tap this Friday (1/17/20). The recipe is basically the same, except that we used Omega Hornidal yeast, and the brewery's water with no adjustments.
 

wiggybrewer

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I've "brewed" this recipe three times now and for as little effort it takes it makes a fine Ipa. Thanks for the recipe!
 

Cathedral

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Well, I just purchased all of the ingredients to make this this weekend. I've been out of the brewing game for a long time and just now getting back into it. I have a PicoBrew C for small batches, and this will be great to make large batches until I can rebuild my brewing setup. Looking forward to trying it!
 

balrog

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For some people’s taste yes but for me no. I bring my wort to 180 and will whirlpool for 30-45 minutes to pick up some flavor and ibus
I almost missed that. To be sure, do I understand you whirlpool 5oz Mosaic for 30min at 180 with the Johnny Cash recipe?
 

Dgallo

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Do you steep the 1lb Bav. Wheat (is that malt and not dme?) with the flaked barley?
Sorry the wheat should have been listed as Bav Wheat dme but I’d avoid using the Flaked Barley and use Carapils or Cara foam. The flaked grains have no diastic ability and since it’s an extract brew you wont have any in the wort to get much other than starches from it
 

hopfenstopfen

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Sorry the wheat should have been listed as Bav Wheat dme but I’d avoid using the Flaked Barley and use Carapils or Cara foam. The flaked grains have no diastic ability and since it’s an extract brew you wont have any in the wort to get much other than starches from it
Thanks for the clarification on flaked barley. I recently used flaked oats in a no boil and only later realized that they do not self convert. Your carafoam recommendation sounds good, but I’m thinking malted oats will also work well for the style? I really like golden naked oats in my usual all-grain NEIPAs. Does this sound right?
 

Cathedral

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I've got this fermenting right now, going to keg it up on Monday and force carb so it's ready to enjoy by Friday the 31st. Smells good so far!
 

Cathedral

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I just kegged this up and put it on slow carb for next weekend. I tasted the sample and wow, is it tasty. Very strong grapefruit and pineapple smell and I get a bit of perceived bitterness, but it finishes smooth and I like it. Can't wait for it to get cold and bubbly.
 

Dgallo

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Going to brew my next installment of a no boil dme ipa tomorrow. Really excited about it. Will be a double NEIPA with Columbus, Sabro, and Mosaic hops that will be fermented with Hornindal and on top of 4 pounds of pineapple pure. I’ll post the full recipe when it’s all said and done and if I’m happy with the results.
 

RichardM

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I just mixed up a batch of this and started fermentation. I’ve been wanting to try a NEIPA for a while and was needing something quick so this fit the bill. I basically stuck to the original recipe. The only exceptions was I used corn sugar that I had on hand instead of turbinado. Also my local home brew store only had Bavarian wheat DME. I’ve never used wheat DME before. Are there any differences in color between Bavarian and plain wheat?
 

Dgallo

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Going to brew my next installment of a no boil dme ipa tomorrow. Really excited about it. Will be a double NEIPA with Columbus, Sabro, and Mosaic hops that will be fermented with Hornindal and on top of 4 pounds of pineapple pure. I’ll post the full recipe when it’s all said and done and if I’m happy with the results.
So I did brew the beer and it’s been in the keg 5 days. Here’s the recipe

6lb Pilsner DME
3lb bav. Wheat DME
0.25lb corn sugar

Stepped
2lb malted oats
1lb Pilsner malt

Og- 1.079
Fg- 1.012
Yeast- omega 091 Hornindal
Rack on 1lb per gallon of pineapple purée

Water additions
1 gram cacl
1 gram gypsum

Hop schedule
targeting 30 ibus

Whirlpool @ 170 for 45 mins
2:1 Columbus to sabro for a hopping rate of 1.20 oz per gallon.

Dryhop 3 days before @ 65 degrees. 0.5:1:2 sabro to mosaic to azacca at a rate of 1.75 oz per gallon.

5C1AF246-8E4B-48F1-864C-83DCB6BF9361.jpeg
 
Last edited:

HopsAreGood

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I’m definitely going to try this and see how it comes out. I only did one batch of extract before moving to all grain so this kind of new to me. Would the following process work?

Heat the kettle with full water volume to 155, add in all DME, place BIAB bag in the kettle and add 2 pounds of malted wheat and 2 pounds of malted oats, (mostly for mouthfeel and body) mash/steep for 20 minutes, drain the bag, heat to 180 for typical whirlpool, chill..,,etc...
 

Dgallo

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I’m definitely going to try this and see how it comes out. I only did one batch of extract before moving to all grain so this kind of new to me. Would the following process work?

Heat the kettle with full water volume to 155, add in all DME, place BIAB bag in the kettle and add 2 pounds of malted wheat and 2 pounds of malted oats, (mostly for mouthfeel and body) mash/steep for 20 minutes, drain the bag, heat to 180 for typical whirlpool, chill..,,etc...
That would work. I do it in reverse though so that I can whirlpool a portion of the hops at 180 to start after I put in the dme. Then I will let it free fall to 155/158 and steep the grains and put in my next whirlpool. This way it shaves off alittle more time and allows me to whirlpool as I would as if it were an all grain batch.

That being said, if you anti o2 practices and fermentation temps and times are correct there is no way to tell it’s extract by flavor. Body is the only place I can tell it’s not the same as my all grain batches but no one else even notices. It’s one of those “I’m my own toughest Critic thing”
 

HopsAreGood

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That would work. I do it in reverse though so that I can whirlpool a portion of the hops at 180 to start after I put in the dme. Then I will let it free fall to 155/158 and steep the grains and put in my next whirlpool. This way it shaves off alittle more time and allows me to whirlpool as I would as if it were an all grain batch.

That being said, if you anti o2 practices and fermentation temps and times are correct there is no way to tell it’s extract by flavor. Body is the only place I can tell it’s not the same as my all grain batches but no one else even notices. It’s one of those “I’m my own toughest Critic thing”
O2 practices and ferm temps are dialed in. So you go to 180, add the DME and first WP addition, then add a second WP addition around 155/158 and steep/mash the grains then?
 

Dgallo

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O2 practices and ferm temps are dialed in. So you go to 180, add the DME and first WP addition, then add a second WP addition around 155/158 and steep/mash the grains then?
Exactly. This is an awesome recipe to have in your repertoire when you need a beer in a pinch, especially when using kviek. It was an 1hr30 min brew day with clean up and went to glass in 8 days. I have a one year old son at home so time is tough to come by. This recipe let’s me brew and keep the peace with momma bear lol
 

HopsAreGood

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Exactly. This is an awesome recipe to have in your repertoire when you need a beer in a pinch, especially when using kviek. It was an 1hr30 min brew day with clean up and went to glass in 8 days. I have a one year old son at home so time is tough to come by. This recipe let’s me brew and keep the peace with momma bear lol
Totally understand, I have a five year old and long brew days are not exactly easy to come bye. Will def be trying this out soon.
 

Dgallo

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no boil beer... ?? Do you just leave this out?

Looks like you’re using ~6oz in the WP and 8-9oz in the dry hop. what perceived bitterness do you think you get?

edit clarity
Yeah I don’t boil this beer. I bring the water to 180*f add the dme and the first round of Wh hops. I also will put my chiller in at that time. Then I let it free fall to 160 (typically 30-40 min). At this point I add the steeping grains and my second round of wh hops. Will hold the temp within 155-160 for 25 mins. Then turn on the chiller and cool to 100*f and rack into my fermenter that the Hornindal is already in. Then hold the temps above 85 for 3 days. Then it’s allowed to free fall to room temp (68-70) to clean up
 
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