Blackberry Sanitization Question

[thisissami]

Hi Everybody,

I'm about to get started on my very first batch of Blackberry Melomel. I had a question related to ensuring that the blackberries I add to the mead won't ruin the batch.

I picked these berries myself over the summer. I collected several KG of them... ate a bunch in the summer, and froze the rest. They've been sitting in a tupperware container in the freezer for about 5 months now.

Is said freezing enough to ensure that they've been sanitized? Do I need to do a star san or vodka soak? If so - is one of those methods preferable to the other? If so - why? If I should soak them - how long is appropriate? I'd imagine that Star San would be super quick (a minute), but I don't really know about vodka... Would soaking in either of those things change the flavor?

Last 2 questions:

1) if I were to use frozen berries that I bought in the supermarket, do the answers the above stay the same, or do they change? (I have some blueberries from the supermarket that I'm considering using as well)

2) if these were fresh blackberries that I'd just picked, I'm assuming that a star san or vodka soak would be necessary?

Cheers - thanks for taking the time to read this!

 

[bernardsmith]

Freezing will not kill bacteria or wild yeast. You want to add K-meta (its's available as crystals or as campden tablets. The K-meta when dissolved will produce sulfur dioxide and that acts as an effective bactericide. You need then to wait about 24 hours after adding the SO2 to allow the gas to dissipate (so you don't want to seal any container to which you add the K-meta) then you can add the fruit to the must or the mead (or pitch the yeast). (Vodka is probably OK if the alcohol is sufficiently concentrated but vodka is far more expensive than K-meta and K-meta is also a great sanitizer at higher concentrations. It is also an oxidation inhibitor so many folk add K-meta as they rack and before bottling...

 

[thisissami]

@bernardsmith and that'll work better than soaking in star san for a minute or two then dumping the excess water out?

if i use the campden tablets, i'm guessing after 24 hours i could just pour the berries + water that it's in into the mead? i wouldn't want to dump water out with berries sitting in them that long, as said water would have absorbed a lot of the flavors.

 

[triethylborane]

I wouldnt soak them in starsan, ugh what a mess.

Go with the potassium metabisulfite, vodka or get vinters harvest blackberry puree (canned).

 

[bernardsmith]

@bernardsmith and that'll work better than soaking in star san for a minute or two then dumping the excess water out?

if i use the campden tablets, i'm guessing after 24 hours i could just pour the berries + water that it's in into the mead? i wouldn't want to dump water out with berries sitting in them that long, as said water would have absorbed a lot of the flavors.

Star San is used by brewers. Wine makers prefer K-meta - It is a bactericide, a sanitizer and will add free SO2 to wine to inhibit oxidation.

If you are soaking the fruit in water do you know how much water you will be adding to the must? IMO, you rarely, if ever want/need to dilute fruit juice with water (there are exceptions but those don't apply to berries which are not always very flavor rich: they may be sweet but that is not the same as fruit flavor)

 

[Lefou]

I wouldnt soak them in starsan, ugh what a mess.

Go with the potassium metabisulfite, vodka or get vinters harvest blackberry puree (canned).

StarSan is great for sanitizing surfaces and objects, but wouldn't recommend it for any organic ingredients or additives simply because it has detergent in it. Rinsing your fruit in a bath of potassium meta bisulfite would be much better.

 

[thisissami]

@Lefou ok that makes a lot of sense

@bernardsmith I don't really want to add any water to my berries... in an ideal world, I'd be able to just squish them a little bit and dump them in, but unfortunately bacteria's a thing... my plan i guess is to find the smallest container I can fit them all in, fill it with enough water to cover said berries, then put the k-meta in that? Does that sound reasonable?

how long do i need to leave them soaking in that? 24 hours, or is does it pretty immediate kill off the bacteria? i'm guessing i'd need to wait 24 hours before adding the berries to the must either way so that i don't accidentally kill off yeast?

 

[bernardsmith]

I think it kills off the bacteria and other organisms quite quickly... but the trouble is that it hangs around for a few hours and can hobble your yeast. But you can simply make a solution of K-meta in water or juice and mix the sanitizer with the fruit. The fruit don't need to be submerged under water. The gas produced is enough to envelop the fruit.

 

[thisissami]

I think it kills off the bacteria and other organisms quite quickly... but the trouble is that it hangs around for a few hours and can hobble your yeast. But you can simply make a solution of K-meta in water or juice and mix the sanitizer with the fruit. The fruit don't need to be submerged under water. The gas produced is enough to envelop the fruit.

Wait I'm not following... "mix the sanitizer with the fruit" and "the fruit don't need to be submerged" are conflicting pieces of information... can you explain what you mean?

 

[triethylborane]

Wait I'm not following... "mix the sanitizer with the fruit" and "the fruit don't need to be submerged" are conflicting pieces of information... can you explain what you mean?

Crush the fruit with the proper amount of k-meta, mix, let it sit for 24 hours. Put in mead. Good to go.

Try vinters harvest canned blackberry puree next time -I have no affiliation- it might be more streamlined for your needs. No need to hassle with sanitizing the fruit.

 

[growlrr]

Another alternative would be to soak the berries in vodka overnight (I use the 100 proof stuff). Sterilizes them, you can pitch it right into the must (vodka and all) and it wont inhibit the yeast in the slightest for the amount you'd add...Plus, it's alcohol. How bad could that be?

 

[Baabaad00]

I've yet to do anything to the fruit I add other that wash/chop and freeze/mash. I've yet to have issues with an infection. Even with my blackberry, some had growth on them so i tossed all questionable ones, washed the rest + bagged them/froze them and used them on brew day.

Not claiming this is the best approach. Just mentioning my experience so far.

 

[shoengine]

I used hand picked raspberries out of my garden. Washed, frozen then added after primary. It was a 9% brew though, and there is something to be said about wild yeast alcohol tolerance.

 

[triethylborane]

I've yet to do anything to the fruit I add other that wash/chop and freeze/mash. I've yet to have issues with an infection. Even with my blackberry, some had growth on them so i tossed all questionable ones, washed the rest + bagged them/froze them and used them on brew day.

Not claiming this is the best approach. Just mentioning my experience so far.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...-is-sanitation-of-fruit-not-important.588918/

Other individuals with the same experience.

 

[honeycon]

I currently have 3 gallons of blackberry mead bulk aging, The method I used was to start a couple gallons of must with the usual yeast, nutrient,etc.. Then after a couple of days when the fermentation is robust, add a quart or 2 of frozen berries, wait a couple days, repeat till after a week or 2 you have added what you want. All this in a bucket with a bag.
The idea is to have your chosen yeast as the dominant organism. That being said, sulfides 24 hrs before yeast inoculation is probably more foolproof. I just don't use K-Meta any longer. YMMV

 

[thisissami]

@honeycon what do you mean by "bucket with a bag"? as in your berries are all contained in a bag together inside the must? That'd be a clever way to avoid needing to stir all the time (by attaching a clean weight to the bag)

@everybody seeing this - I put the lid on my bucket close to 2 days ago as it'd been close to a week with the towel, and I didn't want the must continually aerating anymore. The 2-3 days before that (AKA the time that the berries were in), I'd stir things once or twice a day to make sure that the berries were fully in the alcohol and whatever was facing the air got shifted around. Is this something I still need to do? A part of me wants to leave the bucket closed, but another part of me feels like I shouldn't let the blackberries sit this long in the must untouched...

 

[bernardsmith]

While the yeast is actively fermenting you want to make sure that all the fruit is exposed to the yeast and none of the fruit is exposed to the air for any length of time - if they are the surface will begin to dry out and so become a wonderful harbor for all kinds of bacteria that will likely spoil your mead. Follow that part of you that wants to stir the fruit and degas the mead.

 

[thisissami]

While the yeast is actively fermenting you want to make sure that all the fruit is exposed to the yeast and none of the fruit is exposed to the air for any length of time - if they are the surface will begin to dry out and so become a wonderful harbor for all kinds of bacteria that will likely spoil your mead. Follow that part of you that wants to stir the fruit and degas the mead.

Ruh-roh - just opened it to follow your advice and stir things, and it looks like all the blackberries that are exposed to the air have this white layer on them... what's the best approach to take? Rack to secondary and use a campden tablet? Should I try to get all the blackberries out with a sanitized ladle?

Cheers, and thanks for any advice.

 

[Baabaad00]

Just looks like yeast activity to me. I'd just stir it up as long as it's still in primary. Don't aerate. Just enough to homogenize the berries for a bit.

 

[thisissami]

Just looks like yeast activity to me. I'd just stir it up as long as it's still in primary. Don't aerate. Just enough to homogenize the berries for a bit.

Aaah too late. You can see the racked mead/must (at what point does "must" become "mead"?) in the carboy in my profile picture. See here if you're curious for more info: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...ackberries-best-steps-to-move-forward.643288/

I didn't realize that yeast could grow *on top* of the berries outside of the must like that. I assumed that it was something else that was capable of ruining the mead.