Black IPA conditioning question

[joshesmusica]

I've made a black IPA. it was extract and steeping grains. I understand that you want IPAs to be super fresh to get the most out of the hops. But I also understand that with darker malts, or a more complex malt bill, that it can take some conditioning time for the flavors to meld together. So here's my recipe:

Amt Name Type # %/IBU
0.20 kg Munich Malt (15.0 EBC) Grain 1 3.8 %
0.15 kg Chocolate Malt (1200.0 EBC) Grain 2 2.9 %
0.15 kg Chocolate Malt (689.5 EBC) Grain 3 2.9 %
0.10 kg Carafa II (811.6 EBC) Grain 4 1.9 %
0.10 kg Caramel Wheat Malt (120.0 EBC) Grain 5 1.9 %
3.00 kg Pilsner Liquid Extract (3.0 EBC) Extract 6 57.7 %
1.00 kg Extra Light Dry Extract [Boil for 60 min Dry Extract 7 19.2 %
25.00 g Pacific Gem [15.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 8 40.3 IBUs
15.00 g Saaz [4.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 9 3.2 IBUs
15.00 g Warrior [15.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 10 12.0 IBUs
15.00 g Palisade [7.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 11 2.4 IBUs
10.00 g Saaz [4.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 12 0.9 IBUs
0.50 kg Sugar, Table (Sucrose) [Boil for 5 min]( Sugar 13 9.6 %
20.00 g Palisade [7.50 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 25. Hop 14 5.6 IBUs
2.0 pkg Nottingham (Danstar #-) [23.66 ml] Yeast 15 -
20.00 g Palisade [7.50 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 16 0.0 IBUs

feel free to critique the recipe, but it's already 5 days in the fermenter... but the main point is just to get a general consensus of how long people would let it condition. my normal process for an IPA is 2 weeks in the fermenter and usually at about 3 weeks in the bottle is when the flavors have really melded together. my initial thoughts for this one were 3 weeks in the fermenter and 4 weeks bottling. how long would you let this one condition?

 

[theCP015]

Tomorrow, I'll be brewing a black ipa I purchased as a kit (also extract and steeped grains). The instructions say 7-14 days for primary (naturally, depends on when fermentation stops). They recommend 3 weeks of secondary, with dry hop occurring 1-2 weeks before packaging. Bottle condition for 1-2 weeks.

 

[joshesmusica]

thanks for the tip. my guess is most kits recommend a scenario like that. i only dry hop 7 days max, off of some things i've read and heard from the pros. i also don't usually do secondary, but just leave it in the primary longer if necessary.
have you used any other kits from that maker? do they recommend the same time frame?

 

[RM-MN]

Why don't you try 6 weeks in the primary to let the flavors start to meld before you do your one week of dry hopping, then bottle. Your dark malts will have had time to begin the meld and your hop aroma will still be fresh when you open the bottles.

 

[joshesmusica]

i definitely do not mind trying out different things.
my main problem is i don't have equipment to experiment, as i always do 19L batches. and i don't have the financial resources to have a significant pipeline going, so i brew once a month, and it all usually lasts me until the next batch is ready for consumption.
so i was really hoping for some advice based on experience. though i like the idea here. since it should really bring out the best of both. for what it's worth, the guy who taught me how to brew, and who also designed this recipe (though he did an all grain batch), treated it like a normal IPA as far as the timeline went, and tasting his, i would've never guessed that. but he also is the type of guy to just do what he's always done, so i just wanted to see if anyone out there had any other experiences with this particular style.

 

[beowulf]

God dag! I love black IPAs and have brewed several. I typically treat them like a standard IPA, primarily to preserve the hop qualities. The darker malts do provide some of the character but it is an IPA after all, so the focus is typically on the hops. I don't think there's any problem with your IPA schedule. I usually leave 3 weeks in primary and typically dry hop in secondary mostly because I almost always harvest the yeast from smaller beers (sub-8%). 4-7 day dry hop then long enough in bottles until it's carbed and tasting good. It's usually 4-6 weeks for me although I start sampling a bit earlier. Even for stouts and beers with darker malts I don't really condition much longer unless it's a big oaked/whiskied monstrosity. I think you're on the right track.

 

[Black Island Brewer]

RM-MN nailed it, IMO. Bulk age in the fermentor until you like the flavors, then dry hop, then bottle. Taste it weekly until it's where you want it to be. If you find, this time around, you lose some of the hop flavor, bulk up the quantity of your 15 minute and under hops next time.

 

[joshesmusica]

should've figured i'd get mixed results on opinions right? haha

ok now i wish i had a secondary vessel to do some experimenting with. i do have two fermenting buckets. both 25L ones. the second one will be empty by the time this one should be dry hopped. how bad would it be if i racked half of this off into that bucket which would be about 11L, so lots of head space?

p.s. beowulf, god dag også, though i'm actually an american living in norway.

 

[jfusaro]

My black IPA ( all grain) took a long time to really come together. Sat in the secondary forever, I'm looking for the times but seem to have misplaced them at the moment.
I waited about 2 months after kegging before I started hitting on it and am glad I did.
I also used 1.5 times of what I was going to use for dry hopping on a friends recomendation, glad I did.
I poached the reciepe from NB and modified it a bit.

 

[RM-MN]

should've figured i'd get mixed results on opinions right? haha

ok now i wish i had a secondary vessel to do some experimenting with. i do have two fermenting buckets. both 25L ones. the second one will be empty by the time this one should be dry hopped. how bad would it be if i racked half of this off into that bucket which would be about 11L, so lots of head space?

p.s. beowulf, god dag også, though i'm actually an american living in norway.

How bad would it be if you racked half of into the other bucket and both ended up with infections? That's the chance you take with lots of headspace in the secondary.

 

[joshesmusica]

haha ok, got it. don't experiment with this batch.

jfusaro how much did you end up dry hopping with? what was your batch size?