BIAB, I crossed into the daek side

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bajaedition

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opps, I meant dark side

ok, I have a friend who does BIAB because he does not want to invest all the equipment to do traditional All Grain, I respect that any way every 3 or 4 months he wants to do a lager so he comes over and does a BIAB on my system and leaves the beer in my lagering closet. He has no room for a lagering closet.

Well as he was heating water something hit me like a ton of bricks. I asked if he wanted to try a triple infusion mash in the BIAB style. He laughed but I told him I was serious. I guess he was just week at the moment because he agreed.

I set a Stainless steel trivet in the bottom of the pot and a Stainless colander on top of that and set the grains on it, then I did some calculations, we doughed in at 90 degrees and hit that, after 10 minutes I lit the burner and brought it to 120 for a protein rest. by now I was getting greedy and after 20 minutes brought the temp up to 130, another 20 minutes and we went to his mash temp target of 152. After a 60 minute mash we raised the bag and drained it.

our OG was calculated to be 1.048, we hit 1.052 . all that and no mash tun to scrub out. I had tied some string to the colander and trivet and pulled them out and we went for the boil.

OK, I am convinced. I am going set up for a modified BIAB system running a HLT and a Brew kettle.
 
I still can't wrap my arms around this BIAB mothod. I started brewing 25 years ago. Took about 10 years off from brewing beer. Started back with brewing beer recently. Besides the cleaning up, I don't understand the benefits. My mash tun... 10 gallon cooler with a false bottom cost me under $100. A cheap 8 gallon SS pot to heat up sparge water.... $50. And 30-60 minutes more of my time.

Too each their own. I guess I'm just a Generation X getting stuck in a Millenial world.
 
Glad you "discovered" the BIAB way of things. Like a buddy just told me a week ago, with BIAB I (he) can brew in the AM, clean up and have the rest of the day with the family. FWIW, I take an average of 3.25 hours start to finish. I do admit I weigh out my grains and hops the night before. But its a really great process when given a proper chance.
 
I still can't wrap my arms around this BIAB mothod. I started brewing 25 years ago. Took about 10 years off from brewing beer. Started back with brewing beer recently. Besides the cleaning up, I don't understand the benefits. My mash tun... 10 gallon cooler with a false bottom cost me under $100. A cheap 8 gallon SS pot to heat up sparge water.... $50. And 30-60 minutes more of my time.

Too each their own. I guess I'm just a Generation X getting stuck in a Millenial world.

Yeah, just the cleanup alone is worth examining at least to me. Quoting Wilser of Wilserbags, Mike says that BIAB is removing the grain (bag) from the wort, where traditional methods remove wort from the grains. All roads lead to the same destination. I remain attracted to BIAB due to the simplicity of the process....and cleaning!!!
 
I still can't wrap my arms around this BIAB mothod. I started brewing 25 years ago. Took about 10 years off from brewing beer. Started back with brewing beer recently. Besides the cleaning up, I don't understand the benefits. My mash tun... 10 gallon cooler with a false bottom cost me under $100. A cheap 8 gallon SS pot to heat up sparge water.... $50. And 30-60 minutes more of my time.

Too each their own. I guess I'm just a Generation X getting stuck in a Millenial world.

let me set up a bse before I answer this.

I started brewing in the late early 80s, back then you ordered out of magazines, you know those classifieds in the back. a high tech all grain system in those days was converted kegs and turkey fryers. used to lift off the burner onto a picnic table. Freaked out when a friend welded together a table and used pumps. He was a pioneer for the time.

Have owned 3 different all grain systems, first was a tower. then a single tier system that could do 20 gallons, sold that and built a modified 3 level tier system for 15 gallons. Each system has kept up with the newest tech going on. tippy dumps, herms, etc. now at my age a 5 gallon system looks the best to me so I sell my system to a guy in my club and start off again.

basically was going to build a modified herms system where I circulate the hot liquor through a coil to heat the mash instead of transferring the wort all over the place. I have always seen the herms as a bit of a compromise. It works great but sanitising all the internal plumbing has always been a sore spot with me.

So I build my stand and because I can brew off of it, and I have a lagering closet my friend who does not have the facilities to lager wants to come over and use my burners to BIAB.

I have watched him do it a few times before, but this time, because I am looking for a simpler way set up my new system I am running through my mind how he is doing this. A light goes off in the head.

If I do somewhat similar to his BIAB system I can still do my favorite way to brew, but with a lot less equipment.

I have to raise the grains off the bottom so not to scorch them

I will not need a traditional false bottom I can use a 14 quart SS colander I have to fit in the boil pot on a trivet and use that as my bag off the bottom of the pot

now I can do a multiple rest infusion mash never transfering my wort, or any hot liquor.

I do not need a full size HLT as it is now only used for heating sparge water

I do not need a mash tun, the boil pot is both mash tun and boil pot

I only need to weld a set of arms to my new tower to set up a crane to raise and lower the ss colander. A easy task I can do this next weekend in the garage.

Clean up is simplified, cost of equipment is slashed into less than half

I get the full benefit of a traditional system with savings in cost and labor of the BIAB system.

I save the time of not having to transfer the wort one time, reheat the wort of temperature lost during transfer, cleanup of the mash tun, and I do not have to worry about missing a strike temp. I heat in the brewpot/mash tun to strike temp

I get it.
 
Yeah, just the cleanup alone is worth examining at least to me. Quoting Wilser of Wilserbags, Mike says that BIAB is removing the grain (bag) from the wort, where traditional methods remove wort from the grains. All roads lead to the same destination. I remain attracted to BIAB due to the simplicity of the process....and cleaning!!!

bingo.

:rockin: see my last post
 
bingo.

:rockin: see my last post

Wow...you do have a pioneering flair yourself!

Like you started in the 80's, I started fooling with those pre-hopped LME kits back around then too. AG was pretty involved (and rare), and the extract beer I made was one step shy of undrinkable. Ok...it sucked, I said it. I also dislike bottling but that's another subject.

When I got back into brewing I made two major changes...Kegging and AG with BIAB. Since I set my system up for BIAB to begin with, I formed my process and thinking around this style. So its common for a person who favors a process to think others should follow that same process. Most of us get grooved into a process and it takes a revolution of sorts to change our mindset. But often new advances offer something good to try. Sounds like you are going to "create" the best of all processes. Hope to hear more.
 
Wow...you do have a pioneering flair yourself!

Like you started in the 80's, I started fooling with those pre-hopped LME kits back around then too. AG was pretty involved (and rare), and the extract beer I made was one step shy of undrinkable. Ok...it sucked, I said it. I also dislike bottling but that's another subject.

When I got back into brewing I made two major changes...Kegging and AG with BIAB. Since I set my system up for BIAB to begin with, I formed my process and thinking around this style. So its common for a person who favors a process to think others should follow that same process. Most of us get grooved into a process and it takes a revolution of sorts to change our mindset. But often new advances offer something good to try. Sounds like you are going to "create" the best of all processes. Hope to hear more.

I remember those kits, used to order them from a place called the homebrewery in Fontana CA, he sold out to a couple and he moved to AK, I think he is in business still there, The couple moved the business to Columbia Ave in Riverside CA, sold it to Beer beer and more beer, which is called MORE BEER today. Still in the same place but hard to find as they built an overpass right there and you have to do a double U turn to get to it. I bet rent is dirt cheap however.
My concerns with BIAB has always been efficiency because of the lautering method, With the system I am setting up that is solved.

My extract boil kettle has been one of those 8 gallon double hole ones you get from MORE BEER, that and the stand I welded out of 2x2 metal I sourced for free, a old ceramic 3 gallon pot (only need to heat sparge water)I had laying around for a HLT, the crane I am making from a old come a long. ( a few mods to that for smother operation) the colander has been in the garage for years, left over from fome sour kraut experiments way back when, so now I am not having to source a new mash tun or HLT I am building this system for the cost of mig wire, spray paint, a pump to raise the sparge water (If I move one burner do not need the pump), some tubing plus fittings, and a new sparge arm. I think without the pump I can get away with less than a Benjamin.
 
My concerns with BIAB has always been efficiency because of the lautering method, With the system I am setting up that is solved.

.

Great! I believe you can expect consistent efficiency percentages once you dial it in.

I use an Arbor Fab mesh screen basket and had them make a press plate to fit. I lift the basket with a pulley and mash hard on the grain bed to extract all the wort I can. In a typical 7.25G strike volume, I will have 6.75G after lautering my grains. Losing .5G to absorption with a 12# avg grain bill is pretty good, and my BH efficiency is always around 83%.

I know your specific equipment is different and your plans are to blend processes. As you can see from my numbers with a system designed for BIAB, eff % numbers are decent. Yours will be different but hats off to you for being creative and an innovator.
 
I actually couldn't get into full volume biab either. But I've always used a bag for all grain. It's a ghetto false bottom that makes cleanup easy!
 
Great! I believe you can expect consistent efficiency percentages once you dial it in.

I use an Arbor Fab mesh screen basket and had them make a press plate to fit. I lift the basket with a pulley and mash hard on the grain bed to extract all the wort I can. In a typical 7.25G strike volume, I will have 6.75G after lautering my grains. Losing .5G to absorption with a 12# avg grain bill is pretty good, and my BH efficiency is always around 83%.

I know your specific equipment is different and your plans are to blend processes. As you can see from my numbers with a system designed for BIAB, eff % numbers are decent. Yours will be different but hats off to you for being creative and an innovator.

only thing I am changing is the lautering method, you are also using a basket of some sort. Sounds like you also thought that out a bit and sourced the basket. I will be messing around for a bit, But I will post up pictures once I get it dialed in. My concern right now is brewing a few beers, Work season is about to start and I will be living out of my travel trailer for 8 months near where this years construction project will be. 3 more years till retirement YEHA
 
I actually couldn't get into full volume biab either. But I've always used a bag for all grain. It's a ghetto false bottom that makes cleanup easy!

I have a friend who uses those curly stainless steel scrubbing pads for a false bottom, been doing it for over a decade. That makes your bags system high tech
 
Hey those probably work good! :)

I use tea balls for hops.

have we brewed together? because that is one of my tricks.

Next you will be telling me you have mashed 50 percent of the grist as potatoes just to make a potato beer
 
Great! I believe you can expect consistent efficiency percentages once you dial it in.

I use an Arbor Fab mesh screen basket and had them make a press plate to fit. I lift the basket with a pulley and mash hard on the grain bed to extract all the wort I can. In a typical 7.25G strike volume, I will have 6.75G after lautering my grains. Losing .5G to absorption with a 12# avg grain bill is pretty good, and my BH efficiency is always around 83%.

...

Actually losing only 0.5 gal to absorption with a 12 lb grain bill is exceptional! That's an absorption rate of 0.042 gal/lb. Typical absorption rates for bag squeezers are in the 0.06 - 0.08 gal/lb range. The low absorption gives you a nice bump in lauter efficiency (about 2.5 - 5 percentage points.)

Brew on :mug:
 
Actually losing only 0.5 gal to absorption with a 12 lb grain bill is exceptional! That's an absorption rate of 0.042 gal/lb. Typical absorption rates for bag squeezers are in the 0.06 - 0.08 gal/lb range. The low absorption gives you a nice bump in lauter efficiency (about 2.5 - 5 percentage points.)

Brew on :mug:

Thanks, Doug. More than anything else I have worked really hard to get consistent results regarding efficiency. If my numbers were all over the place I'd be working to correct that. Even moderate but consistent numbers considered repeatable may be acceptable. I have my mill's gap set pretty tight for a nicely fine (but not powder) grist so that aides as well.

My Arbor Fab basket really is the bomb, but the credit goes to Chad who builds these custom ordered. The basket has a very solid and beefy frame that allows me to push down hard with a press plate on the grain bed. Once I press to extract all the wort I can, I take my spent grains to the compost pile and have to dig at the compressed grains to get them out. I honestly think the grain is darn near dry as sawdust!! LOL. I just happened to chance upon a setup that works consistently and repeatedly for me.

I appreciate your kind words.
 
Yeah, just the cleanup alone is worth examining at least to me. Quoting Wilser of Wilserbags, Mike says that BIAB is removing the grain (bag) from the wort, where traditional methods remove wort from the grains. All roads lead to the same destination. I remain attracted to BIAB due to the simplicity of the process....and cleaning!!!

Why cleanup? I barely clean anything with a 3 vessel. Mash tun gets rinsed out with chiller water (no longer than it would take to rinse a bag). HLT gets dumped out. The only cleaning I do is the kettle and immersion chiller. I'd still have to do the same with BIAB.
 
Why cleanup? I barely clean anything with a 3 vessel. Mash tun gets rinsed out with chiller water (no longer than it would take to rinse a bag). HLT gets dumped out. The only cleaning I do is the kettle and immersion chiller. I'd still have to do the same with BIAB.

This is where my mind is going. Years ago, I thought that batch sparging over fly sparging was the next best thing to sliced bread. The clean up was just part of the day of brewing. Is there somethig less besides a mash tun that I have to clean?

Of course, with my exile from brewing beer, I have been amzed by some of the new "toys" out there and even the Extracts! 50/50 munich extracts, Extracts with 30% flaked maize, 100% vienna extract, rye extract. I'm trying these malt extracts to see how they compare to all grain mashes.

As I said, to each their own, but this pulley system and to me, worrying if the bag will break open while lifting.... Maybe I'm missing something on the "less equipment".... but what less equipment is there... Another large pot for sparge water and maybe a mash tun vessel(But it seems that people are using coolers for a BIAB.)? Maybe someone should send me a bag and pulley so I can "see" the difference" ~LOL~

I'm getting old and stuck in my ways, I guess. Never did like change much :)
 
This is where my mind is going. Years ago, I thought that batch sparging over fly sparging was the next best thing to sliced bread. The clean up was just part of the day of brewing. Is there somethig less besides a mash tun that I have to clean?

Of course, with my exile from brewing beer, I have been amzed by some of the new "toys" out there and even the Extracts! 50/50 munich extracts, Extracts with 30% flaked maize, 100% vienna extract, rye extract. I'm trying these malt extracts to see how they compare to all grain mashes.

As I said, to each their own, but this pulley system and to me, worrying if the bag will break open while lifting.... Maybe I'm missing something on the "less equipment".... but what less equipment is there... Another large pot for sparge water and maybe a mash tun vessel(But it seems that people are using coolers for a BIAB.)? Maybe someone should send me a bag and pulley so I can "see" the difference" ~LOL~

I'm getting old and stuck in my ways, I guess. Never did like change much :)

This is getting into the never ending "which is better" type of discussion. And of course, there is no "right" answer to the question. Both methods work, and there is no reliable evidence than one produces demonstrably better beer than the other. It all comes down to personal preference of method, and which ever method a brewer chooses is right for them. Once the pros and cons of the alternatives are listed, let everyone decide for themselves.

Brew on :mug:
 
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