Best Yeast For "Finishing" a Saison

[JCasey1992]

Hi all!

I am planning on brewing a saison using WLP565. I plan to mash low, use candi sugar, and I have everything I need to get the higher fermentation temps this yeast requires but what I have read suggests that this particular strain still won't get the FG quite as low as I would like.

On the White Labs website for this particular strain, it says "With high gravity saisons, brewers may wish to dry the beer with an alternate yeast added after 75% fermentation." With that in mind, I was planning on pitching a secondary yeast midway through fermentaton but I am not sure what to use. I know it needs to be neutral so I was thinking of using EC-1118 champagne yeast as I have a couple packs in the fridge right now. Would this work or does anyone recommend another yeast? Maybe a higher attenuating saison yeast?

Thanks in advance for the help!

Casey

 

[TANSTAAFB]

Couple things from someone who LOVES brewing and drinking saisons...

You don't need any fancy candi sugar. Save your money and use table sugar.

Drew Beechum recommends "open fermentation" when using the DuPont strain as he suspects it is the back pressure that causes the dreaded 1030 stall. Just toss a piece of sanitized foil instead of an airlock.

Don't fear high temps. Start around 65-68°F, let it free rise, and be prepared to push it into the high 80s or even low 90s as active fermentation slows. This yeast will have zero problem attenuating into the 1006-1002 range when treated right. I use seedling heat mats and a temp controller. Cheap and effective.

Be patient. It might be slow to finish (also might not) but it will finish!

Most of the desirable flavors are produced in the first part of fermentation, so if you do need to pitch another strain I'd go with French Saison like 3711 or 590

 

[JCasey1992]

Couple things from someone who LOVES brewing and drinking saisons...

You don't need any fancy candi sugar. Save your money and use table sugar.

Drew Beechum recommends "open fermentation" when using the DuPont strain as he suspects it is the back pressure that causes the dreaded 1030 stall. Just toss a piece of sanitized foil instead of an airlock.

Don't fear high temps. Start around 65-68°F, let it free rise, and be prepared to push it into the high 80s or even low 90s as active fermentation slows. This yeast will have zero problem attenuating into the 1006-1002 range when treated right. I use seedling heat mats and a temp controller. Cheap and effective.

Be patient. It might be slow to finish (also might not) but it will finish!

Most of the desirable flavors are produced in the first part of fermentation, so if you do need to pitch another strain I'd go with French Saison like 3711 or 590

Thank you for your help! I use fermwrap on my bucket so temp shouldn't be an issue. I use a rubber stopper with a thermowell to manage my fermentation temp. Can I just install it and put foil over the airlock hole or would that not be an open enough fermentation?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0763SFLLX/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Thanks,
Casey

 

[TANSTAAFB]

I think that should be fine but you might let it get started with just foil and then after 3-4 days of free rise at ambient pop in the thermowell

 

[couchsending]

Adding sugar can actually make the stall worse, DuPont doesn’t use it and you don’t need it. Mash super low, step mash if you can. The foil trick might work, ferment it hot.

You can also just blend in 10-20% French Saison yeast from the get go. This is what a lot of professional breweries do with the DuPont strain. It’s easiest to do with the dry version, Belle Saison.

 

[secondbase]

A second strain is not needed. DuPont is a wonderful yeast. Make sure to pitch enough healthy cells, oxygenate and do not let the temp drop after high krausen to ensure a healthy fermentation. It may still slow down a bit before finishing but it's worth the wait.

 

[TANSTAAFB]

Adding sugar can actually make the stall worse, DuPont doesn’t use it and you don’t need it. Mash super low, step mash if you can. The foil trick might work, ferment it hot.

You can also just blend in 10-20% French Saison yeast from the get go. This is what a lot of professional breweries do with the DuPont strain. It’s easiest to do with the dry version, Belle Saison.

Interested in your source that sugar can contribute to the stall. I've never had that issue or heard that. Genuinely curious, not starting **** [emoji869][emoji16][emoji481]

 

[govner1]

Hi all!

I am planning on brewing a saison using WLP565. I plan to mash low, use candi sugar, and I have everything I need to get the higher fermentation temps this yeast requires but what I have read suggests that this particular strain still won't get the FG quite as low as I would like.

On the White Labs website for this particular strain, it says "With high gravity saisons, brewers may wish to dry the beer with an alternate yeast added after 75% fermentation." With that in mind, I was planning on pitching a secondary yeast midway through fermentaton but I am not sure what to use. I know it needs to be neutral so I was thinking of using EC-1118 champagne yeast as I have a couple packs in the fridge right now. Would this work or does anyone recommend another yeast? Maybe a higher attenuating saison yeast?

Thanks in advance for the help!

Casey

Give T58 a try. Rehydrate & ( I know it sounds crazy but it works) add a table spoon of orange juice to the yeast just before pitching.

 

[Jayjay1976]

I've had good luck and great results pitching 3724+3711 right from the beginning. They seem to cancel out each other's weaknesses and I've never experienced the dreaded 1.030 stall. Ferment in the 80's and ramp up to the mid 90's as fermentation slows. After transferring to secondary or bottling, save the yeast cake in small sanitized jars and refrigerate for use on dozens of future batches to recoup the initial investment. I use little 4oz mason jars to save space in the fridge and revive them in a 1 liter starter 24 hours ahead of pitching on brew day. IMHO, with a little planning you should only be paying for an individual strain once every year, if not longer. Yeast are resilient, and saison yeast in particular are damn near immortal.

 

[couchsending]

Give T58 a try. Rehydrate & ( I know it sounds crazy but it works) add a table spoon of orange juice to the yeast just before pitching.

How do you get T-58 to attenuate? I’ve never tried mashing ridiculously low but any normal mash temp and it stops at 1.020 every time.

 

[Abbas]

I'm not trying to recommend that you change your yeast strain completely, but I loved OYL500 for a sage saison that I recently made. My saison got nice in dry with a final gravity at 1.006 or maybe even a little under. The beer turned out amazing! Some people report bubblegum flavor from this yeast, but the herbs I used dominated and I wasn't able to pick up on that flavor. If you want to go with just a single yeast I would highly recommend this strain.

 

[couchsending]

Interested in your source that sugar can contribute to the stall. I've never had that issue or heard that. Genuinely curious, not starting **** [emoji869][emoji16][emoji481]

Honestly I can’t remeber if it was a MBAA podcast or a scientific study I read online, I’ll have to look for it. The basic premise is when yeasts struggle with long chain sugars (which is presumably the reason for the stall) adding more simple sugar forces them to spend too much energy on the simple sugars that’s they don’t have enough left over for the complex ones. Clearly that is the very basic summary of what I read/heard but you get the idea.

DuPont mashs in at 113 and slowly heats and stirs over 1:48 to 162in order to max out fermentability.

Drinking a Saison I made with 566.
Never used that yeast before. Wow does it produce a ton of glycerol. Finished at 1.006 I believe and it’s crazy thick. Anyone else have that experience? I’ve heard of the glycerol production from French Saison but not 566.

 

[TANSTAAFB]

That makes a lot of sense! I recently switched to an induction cooktop and have played around with mashing in low and letting it slowly climb through all the temp ranges. Made sense to me re: increased fermentability and I don't waste time waiting to get to strike temp. Glad to have something to support my logic!

 

[Mer-man]

That makes a lot of sense! I recently switched to an induction cooktop and have played around with mashing in low and letting it slowly climb through all the temp ranges. Made sense to me re: increased fermentability and I don't waste time waiting to get to strike temp. Glad to have something to support my logic!

I have also noticed a benefit in fermentability in doing this with my induction cooker.

 

[snowtiger1987]

You don't need any fancy candi sugar. Save your money and use table sugar.

Since it looks like you love in Colorado I thought I would share this with you - Whenever I want to use clear candi sugar I just go to the grocery store and buy GW sugar. It it made right here in Colorado from beets (the same sugar that Belgian candi sugar is made from). Costs about $3 for 4 lbs.

Also, the local brew shops here carry Inland Island yeast. Their Saison blend is a combination of the finicky Dupont strain and the French Saison strain so it is the best of both - gives all the pear and pepper esters of the Dupont strain but finishes really dry without the dreaded stall.

 

[TANSTAAFB]

Since it looks like you love in Colorado I thought I would share this with you - Whenever I want to use clear candi sugar I just go to the grocery store and buy GW sugar. It it made right here in Colorado from beets (the same sugar that Belgian candi sugar is made from). Costs about $3 for 4 lbs.

Also, the local brew shops here carry Inland Island yeast. Their Saison blend is a combination of the finicky Dupont strain and the French Saison strain so it is the best of both - gives all the pear and pepper esters of the Dupont strain but finishes really dry without the dreaded stall.

I'm on the Western Slope, so my LHBS (which I'm VERY thankful for as I've never had one closer than about 2-3 hours away) only carries White Labs. Where do you get the GW sugar?

 

[popsicleian]

Drinking a Saison I made with 566.
Never used that yeast before. Wow does it produce a ton of glycerol. Finished at 1.006 I believe and it’s crazy thick. Anyone else have that experience? I’ve heard of the glycerol production from French Saison but not 566.

I've had that experience. The first time I ever used this yeast I got very little glycerol, and it was by far the best saison I've ever made. Subsequent attempts (both with second generation 566 and with a new culture) have had a ton of glycerol and I haven't liked them nearly as much. I haven't been able to figure out what I did differently for that first batch.

 

[TANSTAAFB]

I just co-pitched DuPont and Belle Saison, seemed like cheap insurance. Since Belle is meh and DuPont is awesome I hope I get the attenuation from the former and the flavor from the latter. Using Drew's fermentation profile--pitch in the low 60s (°F), "open fermentation" with foil instead of an airlock, keep it around 66 for 3 days, let it ramp on its own, then add heat as needed until in the upper 80s low 90s. We shall see!

 

[Dog House Brew]

I love 565, and I’ve never experienced the stall. I never use sugar. I mash for 90 @ 149, do 90 sec of pure O2. I pitch an active starter at 65 and free rise.
I’ve never added heat either. Free rise will go to about 75. Beers usually finish at 1.004-1.008. Really like this strain