Best cider ever.

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Brandon O
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You talking about your apfelwine with the grains?
Well it's definately not apfelwein. I prefer cider to apfelwein.

Here is the recipe. Use 4 gallons apple juice. I use fresh pressed.

.5 lbs crystal 60L and 1oz torrified wheat steeped for 30 minutes at 155 in .75 gallons of water. Sparge grain sack with .25 gallons of 170 water.

Add 1lb amber DME and 1lb Light DME and boil with a half oz of your favorite hops for 15-30 mins depending on how many IBUs you like.

Ferment at 64-68 degrees with safale-04, Nottingham, or safale-05.

This recipe can be found in the cider section. The name of the recipe is GRAFF.

Just a note, if you use cheap juice it will have a lot of sourness and tart for the first month after fermentation then mellow out. Fresh pressed doesn't take near as long to mellow out, like 2-3 weeks from start of fermentation.
 

Freezeblade

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I can see adding malt (I don't, but I understand the reasoning) but once you start adding hops, it is no longer cider IMHO. Could be pretty good beer-like-substance though.
 

SeamusMac

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I think your cider looks really good Brandon, I'm going to try it as soon as I can find a mini fridge suitable for fermentation. Final ABV?
 
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Brandon O
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I can see adding malt (I don't, but I understand the reasoning) but once you start adding hops, it is no longer cider IMHO. Could be pretty good beer-like-substance though.

I have made this recipe with out hops many many times. I just recently started using them because it balances the bit of tart when it is young and helps for cider you want to age.

There is no way you are going to taste the hops in this malty of a beverage. Preservation for aging and balancing characteristics is what they are for. Beer-like-substance is so far off from reality, cider hits the nail on the head.

It's a cider because it tastes like a cider, looks like a cider, drinks like a cider, smells like a cider. All the technical classifying in the world isn't going to change that.
 

Mongo64

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This sounds interesting. I'm tempted to try this out since i noticed some fresh pressed gala apple juice at the local Haggens for $5 a gal. I don't have any Safale S05, but i saw a reference that says its very close to Wyeast 1056 which i happen to have a starter handy.

Anyone have any experience with ciders using Wyeast 1056?
 

Pbh187

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Hey Brandon..

How long do you usually age this till it is drinkable. Months? Years? Decades?

Just curious. I rounded up all the ingredients this week and plan on throwing it all in a carboy this weekend.
 

1234

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I have both the apfelwine and this recipe fermenting now. I used the same use for both, Wyeast 3068. I pitched Brandon's recipe on the yeast cake and damn has this thing been wildly fermenting. After 5 days in the carboy I may be able to put an airlock on the carboy tonight. The blow-off tube really saved me this time.
 

Pogo

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Hmmm...cider with head retention...or even with a head!

Doesn't seem too appealing.

But, I guess taste can make just about anything tolerable.

Pogo
 

gratus fermentatio

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This recipe sounds interesting. Since I happen to have a few gallons of apple juice waiting in the wings, I think I'll give it a try. Thanks for sharing! Regards, GF.
 

Snuffalupagus

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To avoid any continual debate on the "cider" moniker for this recipie

I propose we call it something totally different...

Are any of you ladies and gents familiar with Steven King's
"Dark Tower" series of books?

anyway - in this series, in addition to common wines and beers a made up drink called "Graff" Graff is commonly served at bars and events. the only discription of it describes it as a "strong apple beer"
not a cider or wine, but a "beer" - evidently while being quite quaffable, it packs a bit of a punch, and Gunslingers (the protagonists of the series) tend to enjoy it in moderation because of this "sneak up and bite you" property of the drink.

I think we should name Brandon's invention Graff - as the ingredient list he has posted makes me think of this "strong apple beer" described in Steven Kings Series of books.

what do you think... wanna call it Graff?
 

SeamusMac

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I think we should name Brandon's invention Graff - as the ingredient list he has posted makes me think of this "strong apple beer" described in Steven Kings Series of books.

what do you think... wanna call it Graff?
I think that is a superb idea, sounds pretty damn slick :rockin:
 
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Hey Brandon..

How long do you usually age this till it is drinkable. Months? Years? Decades?

Just curious. I rounded up all the ingredients this week and plan on throwing it all in a carboy this weekend.
It's drinkable in a few weeks. better after a month.
 

Shooter

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Well, I just bottled my very first cider over the weekend and was trying to decide what my next one would be, I think I've found it! :rockin:

I like the name Graff as well, it makes it kind of unique to have its own name, but, as the original brewer, I leave the decision up to Brandon.
 
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Well, I just bottled my very first cider over the weekend and was trying to decide what my next one would be, I think I've found it! :rockin:

I like the name Graff as well, it makes it kind of unique to have its own name, but, as the original brewer, I leave the decision up to Brandon.
Graff it is.

The recipe is one I found here tho, I just switched up the grains a bit and added hops to counter the tart.
 

Shooter

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Graff it is.

The recipe is one I found here tho, I just switched up the grains a bit and added hops to counter the tart.

Well, it sounds like it's distinct enough to call your own. Glad we settled on a name, thanks to Snuffalupagus for the PERFECT name for this concotion!

I'm going to brew myself a batch of Graff soon. Hee, hee, see, already it sounds good, like a small speciality group of Graff brewers right here in HBT with Brandon as our spiritual leader! :mug:
 
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Brandon O
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Posted in the cider forum.

After many many batches of developing this, it's the best cider style beverage I have ever had and I feel confident posting it in the recipe section.
 

rsmith179

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Really quick, stupid question.. but you are only boiling about 1 gallon of water right? You're not boiling the apple juice as well are you? I'm just trying to figure out the process so I can get to making a batch.
 

Pbh187

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Really quick, stupid question.. but you are only boiling about 1 gallon of water right? You're not boiling the apple juice as well are you? I'm just trying to figure out the process so I can get to making a batch.
I dunno how anyone else does it but when I made my batch last week I only boiled the 1 gallon water with my hops. Boiling all the AJ would cause some pectic haze.

:mug:
 
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Really quick, stupid question.. but you are only boiling about 1 gallon of water right? You're not boiling the apple juice as well are you? I'm just trying to figure out the process so I can get to making a batch.
Correct, only boil the 1 gallon.

The recipe posted in the recipe section clearly goes through the process.
 

borracho_brewer

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To avoid any continual debate on the "cider" moniker for this recipie

I propose we call it something totally different...

Are any of you ladies and gents familiar with Steven King's
"Dark Tower" series of books?

anyway - in this series, in addition to common wines and beers a made up drink called "Graff" Graff is commonly served at bars and events. the only discription of it describes it as a "strong apple beer"
not a cider or wine, but a "beer" - evidently while being quite quaffable, it packs a bit of a punch, and Gunslingers (the protagonists of the series) tend to enjoy it in moderation because of this "sneak up and bite you" property of the drink.

I think we should name Brandon's invention Graff - as the ingredient list he has posted makes me think of this "strong apple beer" described in Steven Kings Series of books.

what do you think... wanna call it Graff?
Does graff go well with popkins? Should I take an astin
or two after a couple pints of it? Do you think Lud has any LHBS left? :D

And for the super nerds:

Nozz-a-la

Check out their contact info, I was confused until I saw the address, then I knew what I was dealing with. :rockin:

I still haven't finished VII :(


Oh, and Brandon, I've got something like this in the fermenter right now, letting it clear out, except no wheat or hops, more crystal, and less DME (ok, nothing like it, but it's a malted cider that I also made in an attempt to get something a little richer that Apfelwein). I'll have to give the Graff a shot next time, maybe I'll have finished the last Tower book by then.

Cheers,
BB
 
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Oh, and Brandon, I've got something like this in the fermenter right now, letting it clear out, except no wheat or hops, more crystal, and less DME (ok, nothing like it, but it's a malted cider that I also made in an attempt to get something a little richer that Apfelwein). I'll have to give the Graff a shot next time, maybe I'll have finished the last Tower book by then.

Cheers,
BB
Malted cider is the main point here. I think you'll love it.

yeast, apple juice, and malt > yeast, apple juice, and cheap sugar
 

Pbh187

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I just racked my 3 week old batch into a secondary. Way more apple flavor than I have tasted in anything so young. I used 1 ounce of some old Liberty hops (prolly a year old) with AA of 4% Next time I am going to use a smidge more. This stuff is gonna be a winner.
 

Shooter

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I just racked my 3 week old batch into a secondary. Way more apple flavor than I have tasted in anything so young. I used 1 ounce of some old Liberty hops (prolly a year old) with AA of 4% Next time I am going to use a smidge more. This stuff is gonna be a winner.
I used a full ounce as well because the hops I had were also 4 AAU. The hydro sample tasted good. So, hopefully it will be balanced.
 

gratus fermentatio

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Brandon: I'm wondering if there is a reason other than boiling the malt & such, for using water. Would you advise adding apple juice concentrate to the remaining wort (in proper amounts) to replenish the amount of juice lost to the water? I plan on making a batch following your posted recipe, but I was just curious about the water/juice & adding or not. Regards, GF.
 

gratus fermentatio

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if you steep and boil in juice instead of water, it will haze and/or jelly up.

that's the reason for the water.
I understand about avoiding the problem of setting pectins. Maybe I should've phased it better. What about reconstituting enough FAJC (thawed) with wort (post boil) instead of water? You could add the FAJC to the juice instead of mixing into the wort, thereby adding back the sugars & appley goodness that the water diluted, and avoiding setting pectins. It's just a thought. Regards, GF.
 

1234

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Any apple juice added before pitching the yeast will be fermented and you will lose a lot of the apple flavor. If you want a sweet cider, or graff, then you will need to back sweeten it in the keg.
 

Ferrousity

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I am about to try this as well and I was wondering if including the malt negates the need for a tad of yeast nutrient, or would benefit from a small amount?
 

1234

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If you are pitching dry yeast I would add the nutrient. If you have a starter ready to go then I would say don't worry about it. I used the Liquid Wyeast 3068 and didn't add any nutrient and had no problems. It started fermenting within the hour. Good Luck.
 

yeastluvr

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Just bottled 2 1/2 gallons worth. It tasted pretty good right out of the fermenter. I think the malt makes this for me. I cant wait to try it in another 3-4 weeks when its carbed. I can tell this stuff is going to go down easy.
 

Pbh187

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I can tell this stuff is going to go down easy.
:drunk::drunk:

That was my thought when I racked it after 2 1/2 weeks in primary.

I haven't even bottled yet but I am starting my second batch using more hops and S-05 instead of the S-04 I had to use S-04 last time cause my LHBS was out of S-05.
 
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Brandon O
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You guys are right, the malt really does it for me too. hops are optional and only good in very small amounts, but not necessary.

What really does it is, it doesn't taste like apple hooch. I think montrachet is the worst yeast ever made.
 
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