Bells suing a small brewer

[GilaMinumBeer]

At this point it's a he-said, she-said situation.

I think even with paper it would continue to be.

So far, I've only seen one move that I would consider unethical or disingenuous

They both claim to have agreed to keep this out of "social media" and yet, all of this spurs from a Asheville local article where Innovative talked.

And the result being a "2-bit boycott" where product is removed from sales, petitions signed, product dumped, you know stuff that has no effect on a business.

 

[JonM]

That may work if there is an actual paper copy of the agreement. However, there may have only been a verbal offer and a verbal decline. It's entirely possible that several various offers were made and refused.

At this point it's a he-said, she-said situation.

That's why I find this quote from Innovation's FB so intriguing:

"Not a single co-existence agreement has ever been presented to us by Bell's. In fact it was we who submitted a written co-existence agreement – subsequently declined by Bell’s. "

Is this hair splitting? Were proposed agreements spoken to them, but not "presented" in written form?

 

[Homercidal]

That's why I find this quote from Innovation's FB so intriguing:

"Not a single co-existence agreement has ever been presented to us by Bell's. In fact it was we who submitted a written co-existence agreement – subsequently declined by Bell’s. "

Is this hair splitting? Were proposed agreements spoken to them, but not "presented" in written form?

Wait a minute! What was in this proposed agreement that they aren't mentioning??

Nuh uh! Billy started it! Stop touching me! MOM!!!!

 

[Highside]

I think even with paper it would continue to be.

So far, I've only seen one move that I would consider unethical or disingenuous

They both claim to have agreed to keep this out of "social media" and yet, all of this spurs from a Asheville local article where Innovative talked.

And the result being a "2-bit boycott" where product is removed from sales, petitions signed, product dumped, you know stuff that has no effect on a business.

Link to said article?

 

[beernutz]

Tony Kiss in this article from Citizen Times yesterday claims that, "Bell's has filed a federal action against Innovation over the use of its name." He also writes, "The matter slowly is unfolding in the U.S. Trademark Trials and Appeals Board in Virginia." http://www.citizen-times.com/story/...l-wnc-brewery-big-trademark-dispute/24715493/

I don't really have a dog in this hunt but it is interesting to see the different sets of "facts" presented by Innovation, Bells, and the press.

 

[madscientist451]

A search of the US patent office website turned two entries for Innovation brewing, here's one:

http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4801:4t5dgm.3.1

The website doesn't list objections, but I did locate the examining attorney's remarks about the application:

The trademark examining attorney has searched the USPTO’s database of registered and pending marks and has found no conflicting marks that would bar registration under Trademark Act Section 2(d). TMEP §704.02; see 15 U.S.C. §1052(d).

I can't find any reference to any objection by Bell's brewing, maybe they don't put objections on the USPTO website. The above remarks by the examining attorney would indicate that the Trademark application should be granted. If Bell's doesn't like the decision, they can appeal it.
If Bell's slogan "brewing innovation since 1985" was so important to them, they should have registered it as a trademark.
You snooze, you loose. Or life's a b*tch, then you......

 

[Highside]

Tony Kiss in this article from Citizen Times yesterday claims that, "Bell's has filed a federal action against Innovation over the use of its name." He also writes, "The matter slowly is unfolding in the U.S. Trademark Trials and Appeals Board in Virginia." http://www.citizen-times.com/story/...l-wnc-brewery-big-trademark-dispute/24715493/

I don't really have a dog in this hunt but it is interesting to see the different sets of "facts" presented by Innovation, Bells, and the press.

That article is from yesterday at 6:23 PM, strange, the times keep changing.

 

[Disintegr8or]

No. The only thing it "looks like" is that someone is embellishing, or someone is flat out lying.

The latter being the only true offense in this situation.

Furthermore, who do you think you are really going to hurt with your boycott?

Larry? No.

Think about it. If sales deplete he will downsize to compensate losses. So, congratulations your little boycott got bottling line Jeff/Susan fired so Larry can keep full coverage on his Benze.

Put away the boycott BS for a real offense.

Larry sounds like an *******.

Still not drinking anymore Bell's. Sorry if it hurts the minimum wage worker that is struggling to pay their bills because they made poor life decisions, and all they have available to them is a minimum wage job at Bell's brewery. See? I DGAF.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Link to said article?

It has been linked already, IIRC. It is the basis of this thread and is what brought the issue public. There isn't really anything significant about it other than it brings the issue public.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

If Bell's slogan "brewing innovation since 1985" was so important to them, they should have registered it as a trademark.
You snooze, you loose. Or life's a b*tch, then you......

I don't get a sense that the slogan is all that important to them. I think not being sued over it is.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Larry sounds like an *******.

Still not drinking anymore Bell's. Sorry if it hurts the minimum wage worker that is struggling to pay their bills because they made poor life decisions, and all they have available to them is a minimum wage job at Bell's brewery. See? I DGAF.

I can think of a commonly used slogan for this remark.

 

[Teromous]

Larry sounds like an *******.

Still not drinking anymore Bell's. Sorry if it hurts the minimum wage worker that is struggling to pay their bills because they made poor life decisions, and all they have available to them is a minimum wage job at Bell's brewery. See? I DGAF.

I'm going to boycott your opinion that people who work minimum wage jobs or choose to work at low-paying breweries have made poor life decisions, and drink even more Bell's.

 

[lowtones84]

Larry sounds like an *******.

Still not drinking anymore Bell's. Sorry if it hurts the minimum wage worker that is struggling to pay their bills because they made poor life decisions, and all they have available to them is a minimum wage job at Bell's brewery. See? I DGAF.

I can think of a commonly used slogan for this remark.

I was thinking "Takes one to know one." You?

C'mon guys, this is ridiculous. The way we're arguing over it is actually MORE ridiculous than whatever is going on. We know nothing, and therefore have no ground to form an opinion of any kind.

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

I was thinking "Takes one to know one." You?

C'mon guys, this is ridiculous. The way we're arguing over it is actually MORE ridiculous than whatever is going on. We know nothing, and therefore have no ground to form an opinion of any kind.

But, wait

Someone is wrong on the internet... We have to make sure we tell them that they are wrong.

 

[JonM]

I've made my share of contributions here, so I'm guilty too, but I was reminded of this:

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1426264708.658962.jpg

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

I was thinking "Takes one to know one." You?

C'mon guys, this is ridiculous. The way we're arguing over it is actually MORE ridiculous than whatever is going on. We know nothing, and therefore have no ground to form an opinion of any kind.

Meh, I've been trying to maintain myself as unbiased toward everything but the idea of boycott. The idea is ludicrous ESPECIALLY since the advent of social media. A simple uninformed action/thought can go viral in an instant and have very serious impacts.

 

[Homercidal]

I've made my share of contributions here, so I'm guilty too, but I was reminded of this:

View attachment 263098

Aw man, I miss Steve Guttenberg! And Michael Winslow... "I've lost the bleeps, sweeps, and creeps!"

 

[hunter_le five]

Aw man, I miss Steve Guttenberg! And Michael Winslow... "I've lost the bleeps, sweeps, and creeps!"

 

[Grannyknot]

Since making a personal decision to not buy any more of a certain product is apparently now seen as ludicrous & mass cyber bullying towards large companies (In the case that others share your viewpoint), I've decided to not buy any more of Bell's product ONLY because I believe it to be overpriced.

There.

 

[sudbuddy]

Here is a reply I got from Laura Bell regarding this issue. It seems like she really did all she could to prevent a legal battle and it was Innovation, not Bells, that was being sh!tty about all of this:

Dear: Mr. Carroll:



Thank you for reaching out. We want to clear up a few things regarding our federal trademark dispute with Innovation Brewing.



We have not, and are not asking them to change their name or their logo. There is no lawsuit. We are not suing them. We have not asked them for money. We have not asked them to stop selling their beer. We are asking them to withdraw their federal trademark application.
Our concern is with their United States trademark application and potential impact on our brand, which we have spent 30 years building.
I personally reached out to Innovation Brewing to try to settle this matter in February, 2014 and attempted to talk about this brewer to brewer instead of involving lawyers. Our efforts were rebuffed and Innovation Brewing choose to pursue this in the legal system.
Over the last year, we have offered co-existence agreements and have offered to pay for their legal fees. We tried to find solutions that would work for both of us. Their response was to ask for an exorbitant amount of money and we did not feel that was a collaborative solution.
All offers that we proposed were rejected and after more than a year of discussion regrettably, this matter has moved to the federal trademark office.

We have the utmost respect for Innovation Brewing and we are going to keep any comments we have regarding this matter positive, honest, and collaborative. We want them to continue to brew and do the good work they’re doing under their own name.



We hope to resolve this as swiftly as the system will allow.



The passion that we have seen over the past few days is a testament to how much the beer industry means to those who support it and why we are proud to be a part of it. I hope this information helps.



Sincerely,



Laura S. Bell

Vice President

Bell’s Brewery, Inc.

 

[Ridire]

Here is a reply I got from Laura Bell regarding this issue. It seems like she really did all she could to prevent a legal battle and it was Innovation, not Bells, that was being sh!tty about all of this:

Dear: Mr. Carroll:



Thank you for reaching out. We want to clear up a few things regarding our federal trademark dispute with Innovation Brewing.



We have not, and are not asking them to change their name or their logo. There is no lawsuit. We are not suing them. We have not asked them for money. We have not asked them to stop selling their beer. We are asking them to withdraw their federal trademark application.
Our concern is with their United States trademark application and potential impact on our brand, which we have spent 30 years building.
I personally reached out to Innovation Brewing to try to settle this matter in February, 2014 and attempted to talk about this brewer to brewer instead of involving lawyers. Our efforts were rebuffed and Innovation Brewing choose to pursue this in the legal system.
Over the last year, we have offered co-existence agreements and have offered to pay for their legal fees. We tried to find solutions that would work for both of us. Their response was to ask for an exorbitant amount of money and we did not feel that was a collaborative solution.
All offers that we proposed were rejected and after more than a year of discussion regrettably, this matter has moved to the federal trademark office.

We have the utmost respect for Innovation Brewing and we are going to keep any comments we have regarding this matter positive, honest, and collaborative. We want them to continue to brew and do the good work they’re doing under their own name.



We hope to resolve this as swiftly as the system will allow.



The passion that we have seen over the past few days is a testament to how much the beer industry means to those who support it and why we are proud to be a part of it. I hope this information helps.



Sincerely,



Laura S. Bell

Vice President

Bell’s Brewery, Inc.

That is a cut and paste of the FB post that has been posted on this thread several times. If true, that's great, but Innovation has put out a public statement that basically says "Laura Bell is lying". Who to believe...?

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Here is a reply I got from Laura Bell regarding this issue. It seems like she really did all she could to prevent a legal battle and it was Innovation, not Bells, that was being sh!tty about all of this:

Dear: Mr. Carroll:



Thank you for reaching out. We want to clear up a few things regarding our federal trademark dispute with Innovation Brewing.



We have not, and are not asking them to change their name or their logo. There is no lawsuit. We are not suing them. We have not asked them for money. We have not asked them to stop selling their beer. We are asking them to withdraw their federal trademark application.
Our concern is with their United States trademark application and potential impact on our brand, which we have spent 30 years building.
I personally reached out to Innovation Brewing to try to settle this matter in February, 2014 and attempted to talk about this brewer to brewer instead of involving lawyers. Our efforts were rebuffed and Innovation Brewing choose to pursue this in the legal system.
Over the last year, we have offered co-existence agreements and have offered to pay for their legal fees. We tried to find solutions that would work for both of us. Their response was to ask for an exorbitant amount of money and we did not feel that was a collaborative solution.
All offers that we proposed were rejected and after more than a year of discussion regrettably, this matter has moved to the federal trademark office.

We have the utmost respect for Innovation Brewing and we are going to keep any comments we have regarding this matter positive, honest, and collaborative. We want them to continue to brew and do the good work they’re doing under their own name.



We hope to resolve this as swiftly as the system will allow.



The passion that we have seen over the past few days is a testament to how much the beer industry means to those who support it and why we are proud to be a part of it. I hope this information helps.



Sincerely,



Laura S. Bell

Vice President

Bell’s Brewery, Inc.

So, you got her facebook post?

 

[JonM]

CTRL-C + CTRL-V.

To be fair, however, I'm sure they're busy as hell over there.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Since making a personal decision to not buy any more of a certain product is apparently now seen as ludicrous & mass cyber bullying towards large companies (In the case that others share your viewpoint), I've decided to not buy any more of Bell's product ONLY because I believe it to be overpriced.

There.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSGkBWYDmrM[/ame]

 

[wailingguitar]

I haven't read through the whole thread, I expect it is much like the ones I have seen on Facebook and elsewhere.

I know Larry Bell from way back, he gave me my first job in the industry in 1989, so I do admit to a little bias. For what it's worth, Larry is one of the nicest guys I have ever met and I know he doesn't deal with stuff like this flippantly.

I have also dealt with trademark issues in the industry and I can see the tin of worms that would be opened if Bell's didn't pursue some kind of action.

Here is an article with an interview with Larry regarding this issue:

http://mibiz.com/item/22297-editor’s-notebook-larry-bell-unsettled-by-anger-toward-bell’s-brewery

 

[agrazela]

To you guys a few posts back...

Technically, Ctrl-C / Ctrl-V is a "Copy and Paste." That was actually a Jeopardy question last night, and the guy got it wrong answering "Cut and Paste." And the Trebek would NEVER lie.

 

[Eucrid]

If anyone should be suing these chumps its Adnams. They already have an IPA called Innovation.

 

[bob1852]

If anyone should be suing these chumps its Adnams. They already have an IPA called Innovation.

The craft beer swimming pool is going to get more and more crowded, and it's going to get uglier and uglier....

http://www.wbur.org/npr/369445171/craft-brewers-are-running-out-of-names-and-into-legal-spats

 

[Smeth]

The Bells didn't want this to play out in social media, but now it's way beyond that. If Mr. Bell is indeed losing sleep over this and truly has not forgotten his roots, why not spin this public relations nightmare on it's head? He should make a public, legitimate, reasonable offer to settle amicably in front of the entire business and craft beer community. Mrs. Bell says they want to work collaboratively and that they have made several offers, so why not capatalize on this as an opportunity to show solidarity. Publicize an offer. Then, if it is reasonable, Bell's reputation will be heightened and Innovation will be the ones to look silly if they refuse such an offer.

 

[eatmorefrogs]

All of you had better "lawyer up" because if I catch any of you using the term "home brew" you're going to hear from my attorney. I've got dibs on the term. Firsties.