Bells suing a small brewer

[mattmmille]

Not going to argue legal minutia. The "spirit of the law" should not be to bankrupt a small business or make them suffer, unless they used another company's name or product name or a licensed slogan...either ignorantly or on purpose. I've heard both sides claim to have made multiple offers and that the other refused. I've also heard both sides claim that only THEY made offers and only the OTHER company refused. I've heard Ms. Bell state on their website that they aren't suing, and they don't want Innovation Brewing to change ANYTHING. Really? Then what's the big dust-up all about?! You know you want SOMETHING! So, I lean towards believing the little guys. And they are an NC company...so they have THAT going for them. Personally, I'm not going to argue; I'm voting with my beer selections. You do what YOU feel is right.

 

[chickypad]

This thread got crazy long so sorry if someone has already linked this, but check out the new brewery that just opened on the Cal Poly Pomona campus. Now that looks like a conflict.

 

[JonM]

Aye aye aye.

 

[bob1852]

This thread got crazy long so sorry if someone has already linked this, but check out the new brewery that just opened on the Cal Poly Pomona campus. Now that looks like a conflict.

Time to start a new thread....

"Innovation Brewing sues a small brewer!!!!!!!"

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Innovative will agree to co-existence as long as Bells goes after Cal Poly instead.

 

[PlexVector]

Lol! You can't make this stuff up. Better than fiction!

 

[azscoob]

I tried to register so I could comment on the college brewery, wouldn't let me register........

 

[DrWill]

I've heard Ms. Bell state on their website that they aren't suing, and they don't want Innovation Brewing to change ANYTHING. Really? Then what's the big dust-up all about?! You know you want SOMETHING!

The long and short is that Bell's is trying to prevent the TM registration so that down the road Innovation can't prevent Bell's from using their slogan. They're not trying to force a name change, just prevent registration. Unfortunately in TM cases, you've got to be diligent otherwise you can end up screwed out of your own slogan.

 

[Jaybird]

Filing for a trademark must just have been to expensive for Bells..LOL

Flabbergasted really!

Cheers
Jay

 

[xandersaml]

I agree, there seems to be a "hate the big guy attitude" among many. However, I believe right s right and wrong is wrong, no matter the size of the combatants.
When I owned a restaurant (or it owned me) I used to get crap from customers seeking a comp meal.
Customer always said:"The customer is always right."
I always said: "Right is right and wrong is wrong."
If they were right they were treated better than royalty and made whole again, plus some. If they were wrong they paid or got police escort outta there.

 

[Weezy]

This is beyond the hate the big guy mentality, thanks to Mrs. Bell's social media statement with half truths and carefully worded points.

 

[xandersaml]

In the context of this thread, I sincerely hope that Bells story IS 100% correct.

It would further bolster the idiocy of this lynch mob mentality screaming boycott when they have no fvcking clue what is really going on beyond a "goliath" taking action against a "little guy".

I agree that more needed to be known before going all crazy.
Perhaps, had Bell's told their side of the story earlier, rather than saying "It's in the federal systems, no comment." Or words to that effect - backlash would've been less.

It is also a reasonable assumption that Bell's would not have made this information known without the "attack" from the lynch mob.

 

[Homercidal]

This is beyond the hate the big guy mentality, thanks to Mrs. Bell's social media statement with half truths and carefully worded points.

Half truths and carefully worded quotes are a part of business, and as I see it both parties are complicit in this regard.

We simply can't know for sure what was offered to whom, by whom, and when. All we have are what each sides claim.

And that, so far, is so much drivel.

I can foresee a local brewery having a hard time with their name, Red Tail Brewing. There is already a beer named Red Tail Ale.

 

[xandersaml]

The problem is no one reads the retractions in small print on page 9 for a story that ran on page 1 several days ago.

Few and far between

 

[xandersaml]

Regardless of who is doing what, boycott is ridiculous. Let them battle is out in the courts. Enjoy their products for what they are and the world keeps spinning. Buisiness is business. And short of an assassination, legal recourse is their legal right no matter what your opinion is.

Sure, but boycot is the right of each individual as well. Some people do not wish to support those with whom they disagree.
I'm ok with that.

 

[xandersaml]

Bells has always annoyed me. They design wonderful beers but refuse to really focus on growing the business to its full potential. They've got a very pretentious crunchy little Kalamazoo attitude. Their attacks on other craft breweries and LHBSs' never surprise me. Lame. You'd think after so many years they would have built a little more confidence in their brand and superb brews, increased distribution more, and simply grown the overall business way more. Maybe Larry should read "Brewing up a Business".

Maybe not all brewers want to become behemoths. Who cares what someone's definition of success and happiness is? I think I would "suffer" with Bell's growth status

 

[harleybug88]

Larry bell is a total ****** bag from what I hear from friends and family in the industry. This makes total sense coming from him.

I'm a retired truck driver. I delivered a lot of supplies to Bells back in the late 80's when it was him and 3 employees. Had to deliver through the front door. ( It was a challenge, backing a semi from a one-way street in downtown Kalamazoo.)

One time I delivered a pallet of 50 lbs bags of grain. As I'm handing down the bags to his employees, Mr. Larry Bell walks up and says in a very snide voice, "I'm the boss, I don't have to help".

I lost all respect for him at that moment.

 

[kombat]

One time I delivered a pallet of 50 lbs bags of grain. As I'm handing down the bags to his employees, Mr. Larry Bell walks up and says in a very snide voice, "I'm the boss, I don't have to help".

Just like that, eh? Walks up, and out of nowhere, with no one asking him anything or no one else saying anything, he just randomly blurts out, "I'm the boss, I don't have to help?" And "snidely," at that?

Sounds plausible.

And by the way, if I owned a company, and could afford to, I wouldn't be hauling sacks of grain (or cleaning out the mash tun) either. That's why you hire employees.

 

[wailingguitar]

Just like that, eh? Walks up, and out of nowhere, with no one asking him anything or no one else saying anything, he just randomly blurts out, "I'm the boss, I don't have to help?" And "snidely," at that?

Sounds plausible.

And by the way, if I owned a company, and could afford to, I wouldn't be hauling sacks of grain (or cleaning out the mash tun) either. That's why you hire employees.

I worked there in the late 80s, was probably one of the guys schlepping the grain on that day. I can tell you that Larry was no stranger to work and when the $#!+ hit the fan, he was there in spades and would leave it to US to delegate to HIM what he needed to do, and if that was dirty, grunt work while we were cleaning a fermenter, so be it. That being said, he also had a wicked, and occasionally subtle, sense of humor that could rub people wrong if they were thin skinned or didn't get him. On an occasion like above, most likely he was doing paperwork, sales calls, etc and just wanted to see if we NEEDED his help before going back to other essential work.

 

[harleybug88]

Just like that, eh? Walks up, and out of nowhere, with no one asking him anything or no one else saying anything, he just randomly blurts out, "I'm the boss, I don't have to help?" And "snidely," at that?

Sounds plausible.

And by the way, if I owned a company, and could afford to, I wouldn't be hauling sacks of grain (or cleaning out the mash tun) either. That's why you hire employees.

I was making a delivery at his front door, he didn't just walk up from out of nowhere, he had to sign for the shipment.

If I was just starting out with only a few employees I would be right there helping.

I wouldn't expect that from him today!

 

[kombat]

I was making a delivery at his front door, he didn't just walk up from out of nowhere, he had to sign for the shipment.

Right, but was there any other dialog, or did you just hand him the clipboard, and out of nowhere, he just blurted out, "I'm the boss, I don't have to help?" Clearly, you're leaving some things out, but whatever, you were there, I wasn't, you clearly have your opinion of him and I don't expect you to change that based on the ramblings of an anonymous Internet commenter. As you told it, it sounds extremely implausible to me, but whatever.

If I was just starting out

You said you delivered to him in the "late eighties," but they were founded in 1983. So I wouldn't say they were "just starting out"; it sounds like they'd been open for at least a few years already.

with only a few employees I would be right there helping.

Initially, sure, but several years in? Wouldn't an owner's time be better spend expanding the brand awareness, distribution, and tap presence in local watering holes? And how do you know he only had 3 employees? Maybe it was a peculiar sense of humour? Maybe he was tired from cleaning out the mash tun and stacking kegs earlier in the day, before you got there?

I'm just saying the story - as you told it - doesn't pass the smell test. Either he was (is?) a colossal ******, or you've got some kind of axe to grind with him, or (more likely) didn't "get" his dry/deadpan sense of humour.

 

[agrazela]

Springsteen has been "The Boss" since the late 60's. He should totally sue Mr. Bell for trademark infringement for saying, "I'm the boss."

 

[Homercidal]

I'm sure he said, "Like a Boss!"

 

[Highside]

From Innovations FB page...

"We have received many requests for an update regarding the TM dispute with Bell's. Though we have made offers to settle, none have been accepted and we are still heading to trial. Bell's has filed a motion to amend their opposition with a whole new argument that contradicts their whole case up to this point. More recently, they have even gone so far as to file a motion to compel our presence at a second deposition, this time in Michigan.

For anyone who would like to keep up with what's going on, our response to their motion to amend is here, and contains details and some history of the case. (It will be on the left side of the split screen. If you right click on the document it can be saved and viewed as a regular pdf):

http://ttabvue.uspto.gov/ttabvue/v…
On the right are links to all documents regarding this case, as they are all publicly available on the USPTO website. Thank you all for your continued support. We love you."

 

[xandersaml]

From Innovations FB page...

"We have received many requests for an update regarding the TM dispute with Bell's. Though we have made offers to settle, none have been accepted and we are still heading to trial. Bell's has filed a motion to amend their opposition with a whole new argument that contradicts their whole case up to this point. More recently, they have even gone so far as to file a motion to compel our presence at a second deposition, this time in Michigan.

For anyone who would like to keep up with what's going on, our response to their motion to amend is here, and contains details and some history of the case. (It will be on the left side of the split screen. If you right click on the document it can be saved and viewed as a regular pdf):

http://ttabvue.uspto.gov/ttabvue/v…
On the right are links to all documents regarding this case, as they are all publicly available on the USPTO website. Thank you all for your continued support. We love you."

Link doesn't work for me.

 

[hunter_le five]

Link doesn't work for me.

Me neither.

JBWEB000065: HTTP Status 404 - /ttabvue/v%E2%80%A6

JBWEB000309: type JBWEB000067: Status report

JBWEB000068: message /ttabvue/v%E2%80%A6

JBWEB000069: description JBWEB000124: The requested resource is not available.

JBoss Web/7.2.0.Final-redhat-2

It looks like the URL kinda trails off there at the end....

 

[mbbransc]

See if this works.

 

[Weezy]

So Bell's original claim was that 'innovation brewing' was literally the same thing as 'inspired brewing' which they've registered. They amended the complaint later to argue the 'brewing innovation since 1985' point. It looks like the report by an examining attorney for the board is leaning towards that initial claim being deficient. Hence why it was amended. IB appears to be arguing that Bell's is misleading the board and since the initial claim is no longer bring argued, the petition should be dropped.

Some interesting analysis in there concerned how the use of the term innovation in the brewing industry os so pervasive, that this dilution lessens the strength of any single claim.