Belgian yeast strains

[Maggot1980]

I'm getting back into brewing after a 4 year sabbatical. No local homebrew stores are open in Philly so have to go the online route for almost everything now. I'm hoping I can get a grain hook-up from a local brewery but for now, my question is about all the new yeast labs to choose from. What are everyone's go-to's nowadays for Belgian brews? I was always big on Wyeast but my favorites were harvesting from De Dolle bottles. I'll get back to that soon but I would like to try some of the other lab's strains before I get all anal with my legacy choices.

Some styles I'm known for and looking to get back into, Saison's, triples/golden strong, quads, and Belgian stouts.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I will start off by saying that when I was getting started brewing more Belgian styles, I learned a lot from this thread:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/all-things-trappist.667014/

I am more of a dry yeast guy these days, but I am not sure there are any of the dry yeasts that match up with my favorite liquid strains for making Belgian styles. There are some decent dry yeasts though, and several that I have not tried.

I am a big fan of the Dupont strain (WLP565 and likes) for making a Saision. I have made some good batches with Omega Saisonstein, and have had some good ones made with Imperial Rustic. Belle Saison is okay (though not sold in homebrew packs anymore). I want to play more with Lallemand's Farmhouse (my one batch was good, but I want to adjust my recipe around the lower attenuation of that yeast).

My favorite "Trappist" strain is the Westmalle strain (WLP530). It might be just be variations from batch to batch, but I swear I like beers with WLP530 more than WY3787 (I don't think I have tried Imperial Triple Double). I have made some enjoyable batches with Lallemand Abbaye, though I enjoy WLP530 more. One of my favorite Tripels was made with Mangrove Jack M31, so I want to give that yeast another go.

 

[mac_1103]

One of my favorite Tripels was made with Mangrove Jack M31, so I want to give that yeast another go.

Mangrove Jack repackages yeast from other manufacturers. I'm pretty sure M31 is Fermentis Safale BE-256, which I have used to make a few Belgians that people seemed to like.

 

[Kickass]

I recently used Monk from cellar science. It was not Belgian at all. After some research, it appears to have British lineage. I’ll never use it again for a Belgian.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

Mangrove Jack repackages yeast from other manufacturers. I'm pretty sure M31 is Fermentis Safale BE-256, which I have used to make a few Belgians that people seemed to like.

M31 is diastatic, BE-256 isn't. So they can't be the same. Similar perhaps.

 

[mac_1103]

M31 is diastatic

Are you sure? Because it's not like they tell you on their website or anything. And they blend without telling you that either.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

Are you sure? Because it's not like they tell you on their website or anything. And they blend without telling you that either.

If you view the pdf "Mangrove Jack's Yeast Range" on this page of their website m31 is classified as saccharomyces cerevisiae var. diastaticus.

https://help.mangrovejacks.com/hc/e...Beer-Wine-Cider-Mead-Yeast-strain-information

 

[hooper]

I will start off by saying that when I was getting started brewing more Belgian styles, I learned a lot from this thread:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/all-things-trappist.667014/

I am more of a dry yeast guy these days, but I am not sure there are any of the dry yeasts that match up with my favorite liquid strains for making Belgian styles. There are some decent dry yeasts though, and several that I have not tried.

I am a big fan of the Dupont strain (WLP565 and likes) for making a Saision. I have made some good batches with Omega Saisonstein, and have had some good ones made with Imperial Rustic. Belle Saison is okay (though not sold in homebrew packs anymore). I want to play more with Lallemand's Farmhouse (my one batch was good, but I want to adjust my recipe around the lower attenuation of that yeast).

My favorite "Trappist" strain is the Westmalle strain (WLP530). It might be just be variations from batch to batch, but I swear I like beers with WLP530 more than WY3787 (I don't think I have tried Imperial Triple Double). I have made some enjoyable batches with Lallemand Abbaye, though I enjoy WLP530 more. One of my favorite Tripels was made with Mangrove Jack M31, so I want to give that yeast another go.

I was making a Westy 8 clone and forgot to add the D90 syrup...Doh...I just went with it and ended up with a nice 6% ABV Blonde. I really like this WLP 530 and will be using it for Saisons in the future.

 

[hottpeper13]

Check out The Yeast Bay, their Saison Blend is my fav, and I use the Belgian Dry (which is a liquid) is for my high grav brews.

 

[AlexKay]

I will start off by saying that when I was getting started brewing more Belgian styles, I learned a lot from this thread:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/all-things-trappist.667014/

I am more of a dry yeast guy these days, but I am not sure there are any of the dry yeasts that match up with my favorite liquid strains for making Belgian styles. There are some decent dry yeasts though, and several that I have not tried.

I am a big fan of the Dupont strain (WLP565 and likes) for making a Saision. I have made some good batches with Omega Saisonstein, and have had some good ones made with Imperial Rustic. Belle Saison is okay (though not sold in homebrew packs anymore). I want to play more with Lallemand's Farmhouse (my one batch was good, but I want to adjust my recipe around the lower attenuation of that yeast).

My favorite "Trappist" strain is the Westmalle strain (WLP530). It might be just be variations from batch to batch, but I swear I like beers with WLP530 more than WY3787 (I don't think I have tried Imperial Triple Double). I have made some enjoyable batches with Lallemand Abbaye, though I enjoy WLP530 more. One of my favorite Tripels was made with Mangrove Jack M31, so I want to give that yeast another go.

What is going on with Lallemand and their marketing decisions these days?! First London and Koln go away completely, and now they're taking Belle Saison away from homeberwers?

My experience with Lallemand Farmhouse was that it was just ok, and (as you would expect from a non-diastatic yeast) didn't get things nearly as dry as I'd want in a saison. I'm not inclined to use it again, though ... maybe it's worth doing with enzymes in the fermenter? ("Why not just use a yeast that makes the enzymes itself, then?" Because exogenous enzymes don't reproduce.)

I like Lallemand Abbaye (supposedly the Chimay strain?) for Belgians, very much. Well behaved in the fermenter, and somewhat restrained with the phenols.

Nobody asked, but I cannot stand T58.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

What is going on with Lallemand and their marketing decisions these days?! First London and Koln go away completely, and now they're taking Belle Saison away from homeberwers?

My experience with Lallemand Farmhouse was that it was just ok, and (as you would expect from a non-diastatic yeast) didn't get things nearly as dry as I'd want in a saison. I'm not inclined to use it again, though ... maybe it's worth doing with enzymes in the fermenter? ("Why not just use a yeast that makes the enzymes itself, then?" Because exogenous enzymes don't reproduce.)

I like Lallemand Abbaye (supposedly the Chimay strain?) for Belgians, very much. Well behaved in the fermenter, and somewhat restrained with the phenols.

Nobody asked, but I cannot stand T58.

I've not used Farmhouse (pack in fridge) but I agree with everything you say. What we don't really know is Lallemand's reasons. The Belle decision was about using a separate 11g packing line for something else. Koln had a low cell count but nobody seemed to mind. London, I don't know. Sales maybe? They keep bringing out new strains and maybe don't want to invest in more packing lines, focusing on top selling strains instead?

A really good dry English strain would be a huge addition imo. They've smashed it with Verdant IPA, which is a version of 1318 that's been perverted by US IPA hops. Why not bring out a straighter version of 1318? It would be ideal for all sorts of English and American styles. And be a great replacement for London.

 

[Maggot1980]

I recently used Monk from cellar science. It was not Belgian at all. After some research, it appears to have British lineage. I’ll never use it again for a Belgian.

Well the Duvel strain was originally from the UK so technically its possible. Maybe ferment warmer?

 

[mac_1103]

I think that more than a couple of Belgian strains are originally British. It's a pretty narrow body of water there after all.

 

[G_robertus]

I've not used Farmhouse (pack in fridge) but I agree with everything you say. What we don't really know is Lallemand's reasons. The Belle decision was about using a separate 11g packing line for something else. Koln had a low cell count but nobody seemed to mind. London, I don't know. Sales maybe? They keep bringing out new strains and maybe don't want to invest in more packing lines, focusing on top selling strains instead?

A really good dry English strain would be a huge addition imo. They've smashed it with Verdant IPA, which is a version of 1318 that's been perverted by US IPA hops. Why not bring out a straighter version of 1318? It would be ideal for all sorts of English and American styles. And be a great replacement for London.

New England also has abysmal cell counts, or was Koln even lower than that?

As for Belle I thought it had to do with cross-contamination, but I don't remember where I got that from.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

New England also has abysmal cell counts, or was Koln even lower than that?

As for Belle I thought it had to do with cross-contamination, but I don't remember where I got that from.

Yes New England too, maybe it sells more? Or maybe the production of Koln was just proving too tricky?

I think they said Belle had a separate packing line to avoid cross contamination but they now needed that line for something else.

 

[Halfakneecap]

I cant go past wyeast 3726 for saison. I think it has as much character as 3724, but doesnt slow, it just powers through.

Ive tried ardennes strains from a few of the liquid yeast companies, and think its pretty reliable and a great all round belgain yeast. Cant really go wrong i think. I do mainly blondes with it.

Havent found a dry belgian yeast i liked that much so far.

 

[Kickass]

@Maggot1980 I know with the increased amount of genetic testing there have been multiple strains identified as having British lineage. Much of it brought on from rebuilding war ravaged Europe after WWII. That said, I care less of the origin and more about the expected flavor profile. Monk had absolutely nothing reminiscent of Belgian yeast expression.

 

[MikeCo]

I really like Fermentis BE-134 for saison. It's easy to use, has a good flavor profile and finishes to a very low FG in my experience. I've used Lallemand Farmhouse twice with great results too, but it finishes a bit higher than other saison yeasts I have used. Adding simple sugar can help get a drier beer. I'd like to try Wyeast 3726 but it's very hard to find.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I'm pretty sure M31 is Fermentis Safale BE-256

M31 is diastatic, BE-256 isn't. So they can't be the same. Similar perhaps.

Gentlemen - I believe you're both right.

We know (pers comm) that M29 French Saison is repacked Belle.

M31 Belgian Tripel is visibly two different yeast, which suggests they are from two different manufacturers and given that MJ generally use Lallemand by default, one might assume that the other one is a strain that doesn't readily correspond to anything in the Lallemand lineup. For various reasons, I believe M31 is a roughly 1:1 mix of Belle and BE-256.

 

[mac_1103]

For various reasons, I believe M31 is a roughly 1:1 mix of Belle and BE-256.

Fascinating.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

Gentlemen - I believe you're both right.

We know (pers comm) that M29 French Saison is repacked Belle.

M31 Belgian Tripel is visibly two different yeast, which suggests they are from two different manufacturers and given that MJ generally use Lallemand by default, one might assume that the other one is a strain that doesn't readily correspond to anything in the Lallemand lineup. For various reasons, I believe M31 is a roughly 1:1 mix of Belle and BE-256.

View attachment 860962

I know it's a blend, I've seen the two colours myself, and even flagged it up on here in 2021.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...ack-yeast-reviewi-know-th.675507/post-9082952

But I've got my doubts about MJ using any Fermentis yeast. No solid evidence but I suspect Fermentis don't sell to third parties. Could be wrong.

 

[Halfakneecap]

I really like Fermentis BE-134 for saison. It's easy to use, has a good flavor profile and finishes to a very low FG in my experience. I've used Lallemand Farmhouse twice with great results too, but it finishes a bit higher than other saison yeasts I have used. Adding simple sugar can help get a drier beer. I'd like to try Wyeast 3726 but it's very hard to find.

They send it from the US to Aus, surely you can get it there?

I have noticed wyeast isnt as popular here though. For a long time liquid yeast here was either WhiteLabs or Wyeast. Whitelabs is still avaliable widely, but wyeast seem to have a lot less suppliers. There are also more liquid yeast companies in general i guess.

I really like wyeast 2042, but thats a seasonal last time i checked

 

[Northern_Brewer]

But I've got my doubts about MJ using any Fermentis yeast. No solid evidence but I suspect Fermentis don't sell to third parties. Could be wrong.

Well I'm pretty (90%+) certain that the pale one in M31 is Belle, so it's a question of identifying a company that makes dark dry yeast with the right characteristics. I'm reasonably (75%) sure that it's a Whitbread-type "Belgian" yeast along the lines of the WLP540 "Rochefort" subfamily so BE-256 is the obvious dry option, but if you know of possible alternatives then I'm all ears.

I would like to try some of the other lab's strains before I get all anal with my legacy choices.

Some styles I'm known for and looking to get back into, Saison's, triples/golden strong, quads, and Belgian stouts.

If you've not seen Drew Beechum's review of Belgian yeasts then it's a great place to start :
https://www.maltosefalcons.com/blogs/brewing-techniques-tips/a-guide-to-saisons-and-saison-yeasts

 

[duncan_disorderly]

Well I'm pretty (90%+) certain that the pale one in M31 is Belle, so it's a question of identifying a company that makes dark dry yeast with the right characteristics. I'm reasonably (75%) sure that it's a Whitbread-type "Belgian" yeast along the lines of the WLP540 "Rochefort" subfamily so BE-256 is the obvious dry option, but if you know of possible alternatives then I'm all ears.

I don't know what it is. It might be BE-256. I'm just skeptical, I've read that Fermentis don't sell yeast to repackers and I think MJ yeasts generally fit the Lalbrew range. And BE-256 is a pale coloured yeast.

As a commercial operation I wouldn't be surprised if they blend partly to keep cost down, and use a cheap bland yeast as a filler to reduce cost, that's one possibility. M41 has a more subdued flavour than M31 in my experience so maybe M31 has two more flavourful strains.

What makes you think it's a Whitbread type Belgian yeast? That's pretty specific.

 

[MikeCo]

They send it from the US to Aus, surely you can get it there?

I guess I haven't looked in a while, but now I see MoreBeer has WY3726 in stock.