Using US-05 as a bottling yeast

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_Keven

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Hello, I'm brewing a Belgian quad using wyeast 3787 and its now reached FG at 1.018 (OG was 1.091) so its roughly 9.6%. Now we're 9 weeks out from brew day so I'm planning on adding yeast for bottling as its likely the Belgian yeast has gone dormant. My local home brew shop says they only have US-05 for bottling yeast which has a slightly higher attenuation than the wyeast 3787 (about 3-4% higher attenuation). I'm a bit concerned that I may run the risk of bottle bombs if I use this strain of yeast. One question I have is can I just pitch a pack of US-05 into my fermenter and let it get to a slightly lower FG and then bottle the beer? Or at this high alc percentage would the yeast go dormant pretty fast? Would it just be better to bottle with the yeast immediately?
 
Given a choice, I'd use a proper bottling yeast. At 9.6% you are already in the range that is the alcohol tolerance for US-05. Granted you are at the lower end, but that is why they give a range. It's not a exact number that can be applied to every beer and circumstance.

LalBrew CBC-1 or SafAle F-2 will probably be the preferred choice. Essentially you really want a yeast that will only chew on your priming sugar. And has a very high alcohol tolerance when you are doing big beers.

If that's all you got though, use it. You don't need much. However it might take longer to get those bottles fully carbonated. So I'll recommend you store the bottles where their temps will be in the upper part of the yeast ideal temp range till you think they are carb'd enough.
 
... US-05 as [an additional] bottling yeast?
IMO and assuming a longer bottle conditioning time frame: No.

Would it just be better to bottle with the yeast immediately?
Wyeast 3787 product information: https://wyeastlab.com/product/belgian-high-gravity/

Assuming a longer bottle conditioning time frame, 3787 is a "medium" flocculation strain so there should be some yeast in suspension. Just give it a lot of time.

Another (safe) option would be to use a bottle conditioning yeast (e.g. CBC-1) or a neutral wine yeast (e.g EC-1118). These strains only ferment simple sugars.



as a "fall back" for using the existing yeast (WY 3787) for bottle conditioning, see https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/beer-not-carbonating-in-the-bottle.733500/ where OP reports being able to pitch CBC-1 (using 1/32 tsp measuring spoons) into bottles that were not carbonating.
 
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A bottling yeast or wine/champagne yeast would be better, but US-05 will work. I always add fresh bottling yeast for high ABV or longer aged beers since the residual yeast is not likely in very good shape. If you can get thicker bottles, use them. It will help prevent bottle bombs and allow you to carbonate to a higher level which is correct for the style.
 
I should have taken time to look yesterday at your Wyeast 3787.

It has a better alcohol tolerance than US-05. So even if you add/added the US-05, your results may have been about the same without. And you really won't know which did more if you did add it to your bottles already.

If you still are waiting, do some with and some without. Compare what they taste like and how well and how long it takes to carbonate. Both are medium flocculation/sedimentation, so it might take a while for them to go to the bottom. Particularly if you bottle beer that is still cloudy with stuff yet to go to the bottom.

While you are already at the max attenuation for the wyeast, I think that's got more to do with what type sugars are in the typical wort and how much of each type of sugar that particular yeast will chew on then combined as one number to give the total attenuation. There are various types of sugars, some more easily fermented and some preferred by certain yeasts.

So adding a priming sugar, that most any yeast will favor, will still be fermented regardless of whether you've reached or exceeded the attenuation stated for that yeast.

I don't know what sugars either likes to chew on, but when you add a different yeast, then you are potentially affecting the ratios of those remaining sugars in your beer. Some sugars more than others do have an effect on your sensory perceptions of the beer for body and taste.

But I'm only self trained on this stuff. So maybe another that fully knows about attenuation will fill us in on how it applies here.
 
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IMO and assuming a longer bottle conditioning time frame: No.


Wyeast 3787 product information: https://wyeastlab.com/product/belgian-high-gravity/

Assuming a longer bottle conditioning time frame, 3787 is a "medium" flocculation strain so there should be some yeast in suspension. Just give it a lot of time.

Another (safe) option would be to use a bottle conditioning yeast (e.g. CBC-1) or a neutral wine yeast (e.g EC-1118). These strains only ferment simple sugars.



as a "fall back" for using the existing yeast (WY 3787) for bottle conditioning, see https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/beer-not-carbonating-in-the-bottle.733500/ where OP reports being able to pitch CBC-1 (using 1/32 tsp measuring spoons) into bottles that were not carbonating.
I ended up just using US-05 as that is all I could get locally. I'm definitely going to pick up something like CBC-1 for next time. But I might've screwed up, maybe you could let me know. Essentially I made a yeast starter using a can of fast pitch waited a day for the starter to kick off and then poured the yeast into my fermenter and immediately bottled. (I read somewhere that making a starter for bottling yeast is a good idea, but I probably could've gone a few days to let the wort from the starter fully ferment). Now I'm concerned that I overlooked the obvious issue of adding more wort and then bottling immediately. Now I think I'm running the risk of having bottle bombs. The gravity of the starter was 1.040 (according to the label) with a volume of 32 oz (1/4th a gallon). There was about 5 gallons before pitching this yeast bringing the total to 5.25 gallons of beer. I also added about 200 grams of melted down candy sugar as a priming sugar.... I'm guessing this is way too much for a bottle to handle?
 
What temperature was the beer at bottling? At 68F, you're at about 3.3 volumes. Hopefully you're using plastic bottles or high quality Belgian bottles.

For US-05, why a starter?

Using a new random yeast is a bigger bottle bomb risk. If it attenuates more than the first yeast, it could be risky.

Wear gloves and safety goggles?
 
What temperature was the beer at bottling? At 68F, you're at about 3.3 volumes. Hopefully you're using plastic bottles or high quality Belgian bottles.

For US-05, why a starter?

Using a new random yeast is a bigger bottle bomb risk. If it attenuates more than the first yeast, it could be risky.

Wear gloves and safety goggles?
well my local shop said US-05 should be fine to use as a bottling yeast and the attenuation rates when compared to Wyeast 3787 are quite similar. I also heard its good to make a starter when using a bottling yeast especially for a beer that has a higher abv. As for the 3.3 volumes does that include the starter? Because the priming sugar is only at 3.0 volumes I thought which I've done before with no issues. 3.3 does sound like a problematic amount
 
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I ended up just using US-05 as that is all I could get locally.
Looks like @mashdar and your local home brew store may get you through this situation.

Bottle conditioning with a higher attenuating yeast (US-05) than what was used for fermentation (3787) is outside of my range of experiences (and like outside the range of experiences for most people who bottle condition).

Back in #3, I stated
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so I'm going to "drop out" of this topic. :mug:
 
I was getting 2.8 vols without the starter, and was figuring 20 points of attenuation left on starter (2/3, ~0.001 diluted, ~0.5vol)
ugh well this isn't good. Well the starter was going for about an entire day and already had a thick krausen in it at that point if that counts for anything. I honestly have no clue how much of it was fermented but I'd have to imagine at least some of it no?
 
Hard to say. I was being a little conservative.

If it were me: I keep bottles in a big plastic bin for a while (3 mo for this beer) in case of bombs. If I'm at all worried, I wear thick gloves, long sleeves, and eye protection to move one to fridge.

You can judge how bad it is when you open a cold one. If it seems normal, just keep being cautious for a while, since everything goes slower at 10% ABV.

Some people burp caps, but I don't have pointers on that.
 
well my local shop said US-05 should be fine to use as a bottling yeast and the attenuation rates when compared to Wyeast 3787 are quite similar. I also heard its good to make a starter when using a bottling yeast especially for a beer that has a higher abv. As for the 3.3 volumes does that include the starter? Because the priming sugar is only at 3.0 volumes I thought which I've done before with no issues. 3.3 does sound like a problematic amount
You have got really bad advice there.
You would be in a better situation if you would have skipped the additional yeast entirely and just stayed with the current yeast in the hope that it will wake up (Which it probably would at some point).

Next time use a dedicated bottling yeast without a starter. CBC 1 for example.

Now you will have to closely monitor the carbonation level to avoid bottle bombs. For the next few months.
 
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