Belgian Quadruple infused triple using leftover malt?? *Experiment*

[IslandLizard]

I have until now thought that it is the room temperature that matters, not the ambient temperature.

Room temp is the ambient (surrounding) temp, isn't it?

The actual temp of the beer (in the fermenter) is important. But it's difficult keeping a thermometer probe in the beer, unless one uses a thermowell.

Therefore we usually measure the beer's temp by taping or strapping the temp probe, placed underneath a piece of 1/4-1/2" thick, dense packing foam against the side of the fermenter in the middle where the beer is. The foam prevents the probe from reading the ambient temp too much.

 

[Roysag]

Room temp is the ambient (surrounding) temp, isn't it?

The actual temp of the beer (in the fermenter) is important. But it's difficult keeping a thermometer probe in the beer, unless one uses a thermowell.

Therefore we usually measure the beer's temp by taping or strapping the temp probe, placed underneath a piece of 1/4-1/2" thick, dense packing foam against the side of the fermenter in the middle where the beer is. The foam prevents the probe from reading the ambient temp too much.

Sorry you are correct, I meant to say temperature of the beer instead of ambient
That was smart to use a bit isolation foam on the temp probe!

 

[Roysag]

Hi again, I have raised to 27°C and it still bubbling, which leads me into a concern and would like your advice on the matter

We are apperently going away for the holiday on the 22th and probably be back home 29-30th december and I feel bad to leave my beer home alone for christmas

What should i do with the beer? Bottling it on the morning the 22th or could the beer be in the fermontor until the 29-30th?

 

[IslandLizard]

could the beer be in the fermontor until the 29-30th?

Yes!
It's best for the beer to leave her be, obviously she's not done.
She needs to completely ferment out, then "bulk condition" for a few weeks.

What are the temps at home going to be when you're out on the holidays?
Any area, room, closet, etc. that stays mildly warm, like 23-25C?

 

[Roysag]

Rest of the house is stable around 22°C
So i guess It would be my pillow castle then when i could have my beer around 25°C. But the temp is a bit unstable and can shift 2°C up and down depending on the radiator temp

Or what could happen If I leave the beer around 27-28°C?

Can bulk conditioning be done in the same fermentor atop of the yeast cake or does it need to change to another bucket?

 

[Roysag]

I took a FG simple and it's 1.008 so thats according to plan atleast. But when I tasted the sample it had alot of alcohol flavours, quite bitter and some weird lingering feeling at the back of my tounge. Also, I cant taste any esters??

What does the "clean up" phase take care of and also what can conditioning take care off?

 

[IslandLizard]

Rest of the house is stable around 22°C

Even when you're on vacation?

So i guess It would be my pillow castle then when i could have my beer around 25°C. [...]

For the yeast(s) you're using in this brew, yes, that's a good temperature.

Or what could happen If I leave the beer around 27-28°C?

How can you get those temps, while not cranking up the heating system 24/7?
Wrapping a heating pad or heating blanket around the fermenter can assist with that. Then wrap that whole system in a thick blanket or other insulation, to reduce heat loss.
That said, 25C is fine for finishing out and conditioning. Remember, try to keep temps steady to prevent the yeast from floccing out prematurely.

Can bulk conditioning be done in the same fermentor atop of the yeast cake or does it need to change to another bucket?

Yes it can, for several weeks.

The largest risk when transferring the beer off the cake (in the "primary" fermenter) into another vessel is exposure to air, causing your beer to pick up oxygen, which is bad for your beer (causing oxidation). Therefore, unless you can transfer without exposing the beer to air, it's best to leave it in the "primary" fermenter. Don't remove the lid either!

Buckets cannot be used as secondary fermenters or to condition beer. They leave too much headspace and have a huge beer-to-air surface!

 

[IslandLizard]

I took a FG simple and it's 1.008 so thats according to plan atleast.

That's actually quite low for a Belgian Strong that started at around 1.079 (according to your recipe):

Original Gravity: 1.079

Did you ever measure the actual OG? I can't seem to find that number in the discussion.

when I tasted the sample it had alot of alcohol flavours

If your OG was indeed 1.079 and your current SG reading is 1.008, you've got 9.3% alcohol in there!
See: Alcohol By Volume ABV Calculator | Brewer's Friend

quite bitter and some weird lingering feeling at the back of my tounge.

It's good you tasted it, gives you a reference what warm, young ("green") beer tastes like for reference in future brews.
Your beer will be quite different once it's conditioned, carbonated, and cold.

Also, I cant taste any esters??

They're there, don't worry, but may be overshadowed by malt, alcohol, and bitterness. It's still very young, green, high ABV beer!

What does the "clean up" phase take care of and also what can conditioning take care off?

Conditioning and cleanup (phase) are the same thing. It cleans up unwanted byproducts of fermentation, within reason.
Read up on the "3 phases of fermentation."

 

[Roysag]

Even when you're on vacation?

In other cases i would lower It, but now with the beer i wont risk it^^

Did you ever measure the actual OG? I can't seem to find that number in the discussion.

Yes its 1.080, it boiled of too much So It were 1.093, so I had to add water to reach 1.080

How can you get those temps, while not cranking up the heating system 24/7?

The table trap the heat and you can see the radiator in there, also If you can see i got thermometers in there.
(And in the blue bucket some "Glögg" )

So It gets quite hot in there, when the fermentor was on the floor the beer kept around 25°C

That's actually quite low for a Belgian Strong that started at around 1.079

I have read that the m31 yeast ferments very dry. I tried with the mash to get some unfermentable sugars, but maybe thats the pro with Candi Sugar that it yields more?

It's good you tasted it, gives you a reference what warm, young ("green") beer tastes like for reference in future brews.
Your beer will be quite different once it's conditioned, carbonated, and cold.
They're there, don't worry, but may be overshadowed by malt, alcohol, and bitterness. It's still very young, green, high ABV beer!
Conditioning and cleanup (phase) are the same thing. It cleans up unwanted byproducts of fermentation, within reason.
Read up on the "3 phases of fermentation."

I sure hope its true!
The bubbling that still continues, could that be part of the conditioning when cleaning up some byproducts?

And also, maybe now its time to slowly start reach 25° C before leaving?

 

[IslandLizard]

The bubbling that still continues, could that be part of the conditioning when cleaning up some byproducts?

Bubbling means there is (still) CO2 production, sugars being converted to alcohol and CO2.
Conditioning is "silent," you can't see it.

The 3 phases of fermentation are not concrete time events, they overlap by several days or even weeks. Meaning, your beer has already been conditioning for several days (or a week) while she's finishing up active fermentation. Once she runs out of fuel (fermentable sugars) the bubbling will slow and ultimately come to a halt, while she keeps conditioning.

And also, maybe now its time to slowly start reach 25° C before leaving?

I'd let her be for another day at the current (~27°C) temps to help finish out.
The day you leave, and turn the thermostat down (20-22C is probably just fine), and wrap her completely into thick blankets, including the top, you can (loosely) cover the airlock too.
Don't forget to insulate the bottom, as she can lose much heat through that being on a cold floor. She'll look like big bundle of joy.

She has a week to condition (in peace) while you're having fun elsewhere. Perhaps she'd nibble another point or 2 off, who knows, both Belgian yeast and Kveik are notorious for persistence, while the Belgian is likely diastatic.

And in the blue bucket some "Glögg"

Mmmm, yummy!

 

[Wiratoma]

I went straight to the cellar with the bottles since the recipe said to let the beer mature in 12°C. But is there maybe a "let the beer carbonate" step? Keep the bottles in room temp for a couple of days to gain carbonation and the take them down to the cellar?

Do I need to mix the boiled sugar solution by shaking the bottles too? Isn't there a risk to "shake in oxygen" and cause oxidation problems?

 

[z-bob]

I have one more question for the ineviatble bottling. My last brews lost the carbonation (or never gained any)..
My method was to simply add table suger with a teaspoon in to the bottle, fill it up and close it. Then brought them down to the cellar (12°C)
Can my method be improved/changed to ensure better carbonation?

[I just found this thread] Yes you can improve your method a little; the beer won't care, but you will because it's easier: Use a small stainless steel funnel and a measuring spoon to prime the bottles. Be careful to keep the funnel dry. It goes so much faster using the funnel. Here's the one I use (the price has gone up) https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0044EGTGC