Belgian Candi Syrup Experience?

[Bensiff]

For those who have used the commercial Belgian candi syrup from Morebeer, Northernbrewer, etc, what is your experience with the different versions. Are you using the 1/4-1 cup as recommended? Using more? What percentages of the syrups are you using compared to the rest of the sugar additions?

Since I can't find any collection of experience using this I was hoping people who have used it, especially those who have used it multiple times, could provide feedback on your results.

 

[Hammy71]

I've used it pound for pound with the rock candy. Works fine.....if not better.

 

[Houblon]

You could write a book about using those syrups, I like D2 the best use 1 - 1.5 bottles per 5 gal batchs.

----No you can not reproduce the flavors by making your own syrups, just had to say up front ---

Try these links for more info.

http://forum.northernbrewer.com/sea...posts&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

http://www.babblebelt.com/newboard/search.html?doreplies=1&q=Belgian+Candi+Syrup

http://www.tastybrew.com/forum/

http://www.brewboard.com/index.php?...sult_type=topics&highlite=Belgian+Candi+Syrup

 

[Bensiff]

Thanks for the thoughts. From what I see there is a lot of questions; but, little practicle knowledge on overrall impact of these syrups in relation to quantity used. If I had 10 gallon capacity I would make a batch of dubbel witholding the sugar. Then split it into 3, 3 gallon batches. One batch with 1/3 dark syrup and the rest dextrose, one with 2/3 dark syrup and the rest dextrose, and the rest all dark syrup. Then pitch the from the same yeast starter and ferment at the same temp. That would limit the variables to the syrup percentage of the sugar bill so a real comparison could be made.

That is the kind of knowledge I'm going for, but don't have the capacity for right now. Maybe someone out there is enterprising enough to take it on...

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

----No you can not reproduce the flavors by making your own syrups, just had to say up front ---

Bah. Maybe YOU can't. I however can and do. Some are inverted, others are not. I find the different acids have an impact on the final flavor too.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Thanks for the thoughts. From what I see there is a lot of questions; but, little practicle knowledge on overrall impact of these syrups in relation to quantity used. If I had 10 gallon capacity I would make a batch of dubbel witholding the sugar. Then split it into 3, 3 gallon batches. One batch with 1/3 dark syrup and the rest dextrose, one with 2/3 dark syrup and the rest dextrose, and the rest all dark syrup. Then pitch the from the same yeast starter and ferment at the same temp. That would limit the variables to the syrup percentage of the sugar bill so a real comparison could be made.

That is the kind of knowledge I'm going for, but don't have the capacity for right now. Maybe someone out there is enterprising enough to take it on...

IIRC, someone has. I believe it was OldSock for one. There si also an old BBR podcast that compared the use of various sugars and various quantities.

 

[Brewmasters Warehouse]

Thanks for the thoughts. From what I see there is a lot of questions; but, little practicle knowledge on overrall impact of these syrups in relation to quantity used. If I had 10 gallon capacity I would make a batch of dubbel witholding the sugar. Then split it into 3, 3 gallon batches. One batch with 1/3 dark syrup and the rest dextrose, one with 2/3 dark syrup and the rest dextrose, and the rest all dark syrup. Then pitch the from the same yeast starter and ferment at the same temp. That would limit the variables to the syrup percentage of the sugar bill so a real comparison could be made.

That is the kind of knowledge I'm going for, but don't have the capacity for right now. Maybe someone out there is enterprising enough to take it on...

You could do that, but to get the maximum flavor out of the syrups you have to boil them. When I use them I put them in right at the start of the boil.

As far as taste, I have eaten all of the syrups and hard candy that we sell, and the flavors are not even close. The syrups are much more flavorful that the hard candy. The D2 is the most flavorful, and most complex IMHO.

Ed

 

[Houblon]

Thanks for the thoughts. From what I see there is a lot of questions; but, little practicle knowledge on overrall impact of these syrups in relation to quantity used. .

Then you didn't read enough, as theres plenty of info on recipes/boil timing/amounts/flavors but you need to just brew a batch yourself.

Bah. Maybe YOU can't. I however can and do. Some are inverted, others are not. I find the different acids have an impact on the final flavor too.

I'm not going to get into pissing match but I have yet to hear somebody with proof make a D2 exactly. Unless you work in a Lab or have access to the same massive tools it never going to be the same as the breweries use.

The Belgains use the same syrups and sugars most coming from places such as:
http://www.belgosuc.be/EN/index.html

The Dutch HB use the same syrups and if you know any Dutchmen than you know that they would rather make something themselves instead of buying it.
http://www.brouwland.com/shop/catproducts.asp?cfid=4&id=346&pid=342

 

[Hermit]

Bah. Maybe YOU can't. I however can and do. Some are inverted, others are not. I find the different acids have an impact on the final flavor too.

I'd appreciate it if you would elaborate on the different acids part. I have a feeling the syrup is a leftover by product of candy making and may well not be quite as good as the candy. Well, let's say different.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

The caramel syrups are in fact a process in and of themselves. As i said before many are just cooked sugars with water added back in to maintain the syrup consistency. But, acids are sometimes used to invert the sugars. Sometime partially, sometimes completely. And in my experience the uses of differeng acids for the inversion do have an effect on the final flavor.

Phosphoric, Lactic, Citric are all common acids. Also of note is taht many of the beer stable caramels have ammonium compounds in them which are believed to keep the sugar stable at pH and in presence of Ethanol. For this Ammonium Bicarbonate is commonly suggested. YMMV and experimentation is key.

Before I embarked on my syrup making endeavors I read up on candy making techniques for syrups and caramels. Lots of information available on the subject.

 

[Bensiff]

Houblon - Sure there are tons of posts on recipes and such; however, from the many I read through very few had much to say other than, "critique my recipe" which is followed up by "I made something similar I can't wait to see how it turned out." Sometimes someone said something to the tune of, "I used x-amount of syrup with y-amount of sugar and it turned out great." That is special for those folks and all but not what I'm looking for. If you have a link to folks who have actually tested using various levels of the syrup and then did a triangle taste test that would be be helpful.

 

[TokyoRoad]

I'm not going to get into pissing match but I have yet to hear somebody with proof make a D2 exactly.

How do you intend to quantify/prove a flavor exists? Two people can try the same thing and have a different opinion on the flavor. Read multiple "professional" reviews of a beer or wine and you will see what I mean.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

I'm not going to get into pissing match but I have yet to hear somebody with proof make a D2 exactly. Unless you work in a Lab or have access to the same massive tools it never going to be the same as the breweries use.

It's beet sugar! Unless Dark Candi, Inc has a patented strain of beets..........

making candi is not rocket science brother. Hell, they even give you teh mineral profile.

 

[passedpawn]

IIRC, someone has. I believe it was OldSock for one. There si also an old BBR podcast that compared the use of various sugars and various quantities.

Yep, there were 2 actually. Interestingly, the ground up Date Sugar beat everything else. Tasters raved and raved. I have to find some of this at one of those whole food stores.

 

[Freezeblade]

Houblon - Sure there are tons of posts on recipes and such; however, from the many I read through very few had much to say other than, "critique my recipe" which is followed up by "I made something similar I can't wait to see how it turned out." Sometimes someone said something to the tune of, "I used x-amount of syrup with y-amount of sugar and it turned out great." That is special for those folks and all but not what I'm looking for. If you have a link to folks who have actually tested using various levels of the syrup and then did a triangle taste test that would be be helpful.

A few HBT members and myself were in a comp to clone westvleteren 12, a belgian dark quad, and when it came down to it, was really the percentages of dark candi syrup (and what types) each person involved used. The winning percentage was 14% I think? here's the link to the thread:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f38/westvleteren-12-clone-competition-swap-131302/

 

[leghorn]

Try this thread to get some great ideas on candi syrup making

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/20-lb-sugar-jar-yeast-nutrient-114837/

Fascinating reading and great info on a syrup experiment

 

[Jipper]

Yes you can make syrup at home, but what is different about the Belgian stuff, is the process. They make the syrup, then make the rocks from that syrup. That is the D2 and the like. Then they filter out the solids. This is the soft sugar. So unless you are making rock candi from your home made syrup, it's not the same. This is not a slap in the face to say one is better than the other, I'm only saying it isn't the same thing. These syrups and soft sugars from Dark Candi are the exact ingredients the Trappist and Belgian breweries use in their beers. Westy uses the Blonde soft, for example.